The Heaven Going Lie - Voting Results

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Do you think there are consequences for being right or wrong about Heaven Going?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Undecided


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amigo de christo

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How easy is salvation?

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10

1. Confess with you mouth the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead

And it is also a rule here at ChristianyBoard.com....
* Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.
Look again at the simple beauty of this . That if you shall confess with your mouth THE LORD JESUS
and shall beleive IN your heart that GOD has r aised him from the dead , YOU shall be saved .
And now shudder in terror for many even within Christendom who quickly are buying into the lie they beleive is love and of GOD .
Notice it says YE HAVE TO BELEIVE and CONFESS to BE SAVED .
SO tell me my ecumeincal lovers , DO WE REALLY BELIEVE or do we do as the many harlot loving ecumenincal
ones do and say , OH BUT its okay if one beleived not . N O . EITHER WE BELIEVE one has TO BELEIVE to be saved
OR we beleive ONLY UNBELEIF as muslims , unbelieving jews , hindus , buddists and scores of o thers
ARE ALL introduced as knowing GOD . ITS ALL A LIE .
ITS ALL A LIE and i have come to warn against this false broad path no ma tter the cost to me .
EITHER WE BELEIVE or we dont , BUT IT cANNOT be both .
 
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Hiddenthings

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Luke 16:19-31 UD NOT A PARABLE!
This will help you


If you have any questions, feel free to so in that thread.
 

Hiddenthings

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Update on votes

Those who believe in heaven going have now surpassed those who don't

Yes 57%
No 43%

However, in this thread those who this there are consequences for being right or wrong

Yes 67%
No 33%

What I'm seeing is the questions matter even to those who don't believe in going to heaven.

I wonder how many Christians rely, consciously or not on a kind of Pascal’s Wager when thinking about heaven. The perceived upside of belief is infinite if heaven is real. It makes me question how many have studied the subject deeply enough to arrive at a truly informed belief, rather than a risk-based one?
 

GRACE ambassador

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how many Christians rely, consciously or not on a kind of Pascal’s Wager when thinking about heaven.
Don't need to, just study prayerfully and Carefully All Of God's Profitable Scriptures!:

'Confusion' of What is Death...
+
Update: Added to post Above, ALL Scripture, with This, which was overlooked:

Further Confirmed in Resurrection:

1Th 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning​
them [souls] which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which​
have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so​
them [souls] also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."​

God does Not Bring 'annihilated nothingness' but, living souls, With Him! Amen.

Amen.
 

Hiddenthings

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Don't need to, just study prayerfully and Carefully All Of God's Profitable Scriptures!:

'Confusion' of What is Death...
+
Update: Added to post Above, ALL Scripture, with This, which was overlooked:

Further Confirmed in Resurrection:

1Th 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning​
them [souls] which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which​
have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so​
them [souls] also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."​

God does Not Bring 'annihilated nothingness' but, living souls, With Him! Amen.

Amen.
1 Thessalonians 4:13–14

Now we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep (i.e dead in faith), so that you will not grieve like the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also we believe that God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep as Christians.

The term “bring” can carry the sense of leading or guiding, as seen in passages such as John 18:28; Acts 8:32; 9:27; 17:15, 19; Romans 2:4; and 8:14, where it implies accompaniment or direction (cf. 2 Timothy 4:11). In this sense, God will lead forth from the grave those who sleep in Jesus, so that they may be with him. Since all believers constitute one body (1 Corinthians 12:12–27), they must be gathered together and cannot remain separated from their Head.

Accordingly, God will lead them out of death with Christ, that is, through him (2 Corinthians 4:14) and in conformity with his example (1 Corinthians 6:14; Hebrews 2:10).

This immortality is the “hope laid up in heaven” (1 Peter 1:4), prefigured by the golden pot of manna (Hebrews 9:4; Revelation 2:17). Believers do not ascend to heaven in order to receive immortality; rather, immortality is brought from heaven to them in the person of Christ at his coming.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Update on votes

Those who believe in heaven going have now surpassed those who don't

Yes 57%
No 43%

However, in this thread those who this there are consequences for being right or wrong

Yes 67%
No 33%

What I'm seeing is the questions matter even to those who don't believe in going to heaven.

I wonder how many Christians rely, consciously or not on a kind of Pascal’s Wager when thinking about heaven. The perceived upside of belief is infinite if heaven is real. It makes me question how many have studied the subject deeply enough to arrive at a truly informed belief, rather than a risk-based one?
It's comical that you would even try to figure the meaning behind the percentages of only 7 votes. The mass majority of Christians would not open this thread due to it's reprehensible assumption. It's a turn off, despicable. There are 2.5+ billion Christions who believe they go to heaven when they die. Don't have take a poll, it is a fundamental belief. You're on a limb, on a fringe I should say. I'll give you the percentages. You are in the 2-3% field ... not even deep left field, you are way up there in the bleachers_ in the foul zone. You know what that means? It means you can peddle your theology for your entire life and have litttle to no fruit to show for your labor.
I know a JW who has knocked on doors for 50 years and cannot recall 1 person who has joined her congregation or any other Kingdom Hall due to her dutiful service efforts. God does not grow churches that peddle false doctrines. The proof is in the pudding. They just broke 9 million followers worldwide ... after over 100 years? Whoop- de-doo! That's growth at a snails pace. That is not the power of God at work. No, the Holy Spirit is keeping those numbers down. In contrast to that?, Christianity has grown from 500 million believers in 1900 to over 2.6 billion today. That is the power of God growing His Church.
 
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Lambano

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….to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,… (1 Peter 1:4)

I like NT Wright’s comment on this verse: “Just because you have a beer reserved for you in the refrigerator doesn’t mean you drink it inside the ‘fridge.”
 
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JustMe

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Interesting we have 50 / 50 split on voting as to whether people believe they go to heaven when they die.

What are the implications for those who are wrong?

The “wrong” belief must have consequences in terms of how people live in this life - some view their walk as a probation in faith tested while others believe in automatic acceptance.

Would teaching about going to heaven have a greater impact on those who hold mistaken beliefs about the afterlife than on those who believe in the resurrection of the whole person?

If someone is wrong about going to heaven, this could provoke fear, anxiety, and urgent reflection, challenging their assumptions about salvation, judgment, and reward. If God were to raise them from the dead, they might become defensive, having neither fully known nor believed in this reality. If a person lived with false confidence and did not struggle to conform to Christ its possible they could be rejected as not knowing Christ and vice versa.

Conversely, if a person’s belief about going to heaven is correct, then the instant anyone faces this reality, their expectations regarding salvation or judgment would immediately be fulfilled, leaving no further uncertainty or anticipation.

I’m interested in people’s perspectives on how being right or wrong about the afterlife affects a believer’s life and the consequences of these beliefs.
I used to think that a believer immediately goes to heaven in a conscious state after death, though not immortal. However, after studying scripture more deeply, I realized this belief was just wishful thinking influenced by others. I had never carefully and thoroughly examined scripture for the answer.

Now, the importance of believing correctly about where one goes and the state one is in after this life is less significant, as long as faith in Christ and salvation is secure.

What changed my view was examining the Greek versions of certain verses that many rely on to explain what happens after death.

I discovered that we actually experience a relatively "short" real death 'sleep' until the resurrection of all the saints.

One particular area of scripture was eye-opening for me in this regard.

For example, in John 11:26 and John 8:51, the original Greek and early English translations use words meaning "before," not "see" death, such as "...forever" or "to the age." Over 70 percent of modern translations omit this, which challenges any notion of an immediate conscious welcome to heaven.

(Joh 8:51) Truly, truly I say to you, if anyone keeps My words, he shall not see death forever. (AFV)
(Joh 8:51) Amen, amen, I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death forever. (DRB)
(Joh 8:51) Truly, truly, I say to you, If anyone keeps My Word, he will not behold death to the age, never! (LITV)

(Joh 11:26) And everyone living and believing into Me shall not die to the age, never! Do you believe this? (LITV)
(Joh 11:26) And everyone that lives and believes in me shall not die forever. Believest thou this? (DRB)
(Joh 11:26) And everyone who lives and believes in Me shall not die forever. Do you believe this? (AFV)

This is a worthwhile topic for discussion.
 
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Hiddenthings

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It's comical that you would even try to figure the meaning behind the percentages of only 7 votes. The mass majority of Christians would not open this thread due to it's reprehensible assumption. It's a turn off, despicable. There are 2.5+ billion Christions who believe they go to heaven when they die. Don't have take a poll, it is a fundamental belief. You're on a limb, on a fringe I should say. I'll give you the percentages. You are in the 2-3% field ... not even deep left field, you are way up there in the bleachers_ in the foul zone. You know what that means? It means you can peddle your theology for your entire life and have litttle to no fruit to show for your labor.
I know a JW who has knocked on doors for 50 years and cannot recall 1 person who has joined her congregation or any other Kingdom Hall due to her dutiful service efforts. God does not grow churches that peddle false doctrines. The proof is in the pudding. They just broke 9 million followers worldwide ... after over 100 years? Whoop- de-doo! That's growth at a snails pace. That is not the power of God at work. No, the Holy Spirit is keeping those numbers down. In contrast to that?, Christianity has grown from 500 million believers in 1900 to over 2.6 billion today. That is the power of God growing His Church.
There seems to be quite a bit of tension in your reply, Ron. I’ve simply been examining how people support the belief in “heaven-going,” and even in your responses those arguments have been met with straightforward, some might say obvious teachings drawn directly from Scripture. Your reply highlights how easily assumptions can take hold, which is significant given that Christ’s very first warning concerned deception. In light of that, are such assumptions really surprising?
 
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Hiddenthings

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….to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,… (1 Peter 1:4)

I like NT Wright’s comment on this verse: “Just because you have a beer reserved for you in the refrigerator doesn’t mean you drink it inside the ‘fridge.”
Clever!
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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There seems to be quite a bit of tension in your reply, Ron. I’ve simply been examining how people support the belief in “heaven-going,” and even in your responses those arguments have been met with straightforward, some might say obvious teachings drawn directly from Scripture.
No tension. I'm right at 120/80_ at 4AM _ in bed ... so didn 't have any coffee yet.
You start the thread by calling us liars who you presume fell into this deception - sure all 2.7 billion of us. Yes, that's straightforward!
There are 9 million JW's who believe in soul sleep ( among many other false doctrines) and that no one is in heaven yet, since the resurrection has not happened. I think you are tense, because I put you on the hot seat, up against the wall and you have neither denied or admitting that you are a Jehovah Witness.
Your clandestine operation online is as fruitful as your knocking on doors. I know Jw's who knocked on doors ( and btw for everyone else reading, just in the USA, JW's log 200 million hours/ yr doing this, and see little to no growth. After over 100 years their numbers are negligible compared to the Body of Christ, which as a whole grew from 500 million in 1900 to 2.7 billion today- that's growth. That is the power of God at work - growing His Church. The Holy Spirit gives us truth about the nature of God, Heaven and about everything else Christ taught us.

So where do you think Enoch, Elijah went when they were taken up? How about that fact that Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus ( in His glorified state) and were shown to the disciples in the Mt. Of Transfigurarion, then they disappeared. What was that, an hallucination? Where did they go and where did they come from?
I gave you many scriptures, but you have this mental block ( you've been brain washed by JW.org.); and so it is futile to continue. You take what you believe to your grave and it will seem odd that your body is lying there dead and you are still conscious looking down at it, maybe seeing others crying, doctors trying to revive you - I don't know, maybe you'll die in your sleep and then wake up _ dead? Then you'll take a trip towards the Light. Within what seems like only minutes, you'll see angels ... the Lord ... then you'll know.
 
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Hiddenthings

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No tension. I'm right at 120/80_ at 4AM _ in bed ... so didn 't have any coffee yet.
You start the thread by calling us liars who you presume fell into this deception - sure all 2.7 billion of us. Yes, that's straightforward!
Be not deceived either applies to 1-2% as you put it or the 98%?
There are 9 million JW's who believe in soul sleep ( among many other false doctrines) and that no one is in heaven yet, since the resurrection has not happened. I think you are tense, because I put you on the hot seat, up against the wall and you have neither denied or admitting that you are a Jehovah Witness.
I'm not a JW.
Your clandestine operation online is as fruitful as your knocking on doors. I know Jw's who knocked on doors ( and btw for everyone else reading, just in the USA, JW's log 200 million hours/ yr doing this, and see little to no growth. After over 100 years their numbers are negligible compared to the Body of Christ, which as a whole grew from 500 million in 1900 to 2.7 billion today- that's growth. That is the power of God at work - growing His Church. The Holy Spirit gives us truth about the nature of God, Heaven and about everything else Christ taught us.
The Christian world today is not unlike the Judaistic world into which Jesus was born two thousand years ago. It too was fragmented into splintered and apostate groups, many of whom neither truly knew God nor understood His prophecies well enough to recognize the Messiah when He came. It is not difficult to see what is being set in place on the earth in preparation for Christ’s second coming.
So where do you think Enoch, Elijah went when they were taken up?
If you did the Bible study you would know. Confirmation bias for those who are deceived provides terrible results.
How about that fact that Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus ( in His glorified state) and were shown to the disciples in the Mt. Of Transfigurarion, then they disappeared.
Again, if you understand Hebrews 11:39-end and that no-one has ascended heaven then you can work it out.
I gave you many scriptures, but you have this mental block ( you've been brain washed by JW.org.); and so it is futile to continue. You take what you believe to your grave and it will seem odd that your body is lying there dead and you are still conscious looking down at it, maybe seeing others crying, doctors trying to revive you - I don't know, maybe you'll die in your sleep and then wake up _ dead? Then you'll take a trip towards the Light. Within what seems like only minutes, you'll see angels ... the Lord ... then you'll know.
As the thread raises the question: what if you were found to be wrong—what then? If deception were involved, does your response in this discussion reflect a teachable spirit?
 

Hiddenthings

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I used to think that a believer immediately goes to heaven in a conscious state after death, though not immortal. However, after studying scripture more deeply, I realized this belief was just wishful thinking influenced by others. I had never carefully and thoroughly examined scripture for the answer.
Thanks JustMe

@Ronald David Bruno can you See?
 
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Hiddenthings

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What if everyone on the left- and right-hand side of this issue claimed God had revealed their truth to them?

Is God a God of confusion?

1 Corinthians 14:33: “For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.”

Also, James 1

“If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.”

Which means if someone is sincere is seeking truth no matter how confronting that truth maybe they will receive it with joy because it has been revealed to them in sincerity and in truth.

Defending a false position is different than being teachable and working out the matter faithfully and with God.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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I'm not a JW.
Finally. So you are SDA then? (Non-Trinitarian, soul sleep and Amillennial) -- what a combo! Unless a Christadelphian or some kind of non-creedal Universalist. It would nice if you weren't so secretive about your Church. Why? Fear that we will quickly dismiss you and won't waste our time.?
Again, if you understand Hebrews 11:39-end and that no-one has ascended heaven then you can work it out.
Well, when Jesus said, "No one has ascended into heaven except he who has descended from heaven, the Son of Man" in John 3:13, as far as man goes, that was true at the time. Angels did.
All former saints went to Paradise. Hades was divided into two areas separated by a great chasm. One horrible place for evil doers/unbelievers and a wonderful place where Abraham, Enoch, Moses all the faithful saints before Christ were. When Jesus died he told the criminal next to him TODAY you will be in Paradise.( Luke 23:43) Some say Paradise is synonomous with Heaven. In Rev. 2:7, it suggests this: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
Others think Paradise was a temporary location and Jesus went down and relocated those in Paradise into Heaven ( which would support the previous comment that no one has ascended into heaven.)
Still another story of someone who visited Paradise/ heaven:
2 Cor. 12:3, "And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise (3rd heaven) and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.
 
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Hiddenthings

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Finally. So you are SDA then? (Non-Trinitarian, soul sleep and Amillennial) -- what a combo! Unless a Christadelphian or some kind of non-creedal Universalist. It would nice if you weren't so secretive about your Church. Why? Fear that we will quickly dismiss you and won't waste our time.?
While you do you homework continue to open the Bible and read it very carefully.
Well, when Jesus said, "No one has ascended into heaven except he who has descended from heaven, the Son of Man" in John 3:13, as far as man goes, that was true at the time. Angels did.
Angels and not mortals.
All former saints went to Paradise.
It a false comfort.
Hades was divided into two areas separated by a great chasm.
Merely means the grave.
One horrible place for evil doers/unbelievers and a wonderful place where Abraham, Enoch, Moses all the faithful saints before Christ were.
The curtain was not rent prior to Christ so no one enters heaven as Christ was the first.
When Jesus died he told the criminal next to him TODAY you will be in Paradise.( Luke 23:43) Some say Paradise is synonomous with Heaven.
Correct, like Paul's expression - the next waking moment!
In Rev. 2:7, it suggests this: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
Hebrews 11:39-end - no one has received this promise - one body raised together!
2 Cor. 12:3, "And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise (3rd heaven) and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.
Paul was given a vision of the 3rd Heaven and Earth epoc - God being ALL and in ALL.

So incredible he could not speak of what he saw.

Hard to believe you are wrong on every point you posted.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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While you do you homework continue to open the Bible and read it very carefully.

Angels and not mortals.

It a false comfort.

Merely means the grave.

The curtain was not rent prior to Christ so no one enters heaven as Christ was the first.

Correct, like Paul's expression - the next waking moment!

Hebrews 11:39-end - no one has received this promise - one body raised together!

Paul was given a vision of the 3rd Heaven and Earth epoc - God being ALL and in ALL.

So incredible he could not speak of what he saw.

Hard to believe you are wrong on every point you posted.
I'll try to educate you, but I still think it's a futile task. I have done exhaustive studies on topics of Hell, Hades, the Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, I wrote a book called "Hell... If I Know" and so will share a few insightful pages from it.

[Unbelieving souls go to Hades (the underworld, but separate from Tartarus, where the demons are) and await their final judgment. At that time, they are resurrected to experience their final judgment. Which is what, to go back to Hades or deeper into the Abyss/Bottonless Pit? No, to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is Hell.
Death and Hades are on Judgment Day, thrown into tuenLakebif Fire and destroyed. This event also includes the 1st Heavens ( atmosphere snd universe) and 1st Earth and described in 2 Peter 3:10.

Hades is the holding place, a prison. It is much deeper than 6 feet! The second death is ultimate destruction. There cannot be an eternal state of indestructible destructuon or imperishanle perishing. Destruction means to put an end to. As we see bodies cremated in minutes - that is what fire does. Fear God can and will destroy both body and soul.

Some of the ideas about Hell came from
Gehenna, The Valley of Hinnom, a deep ravine south of Jerusalem. This is where the Cannanites used to sacrifice and burn humans to Molech, a false god. Later, it became a perpetual burning dump for dead and diseased animals. Symbolically and physically, Gehenna gave the Jews a perspective of Hell. Jesus even cursed the Pharisees to the Gehenna (Matthew 23:33 YLT). So it was a shadow representation of the final Gehenna ON EARTH.
SHEOL comes from the word "shaol", which means to ask, demand or require. So Hades (and Satan) therefore is hungry and unsatisfied, asking, demanding and requiring souls. Satans drawing power tempts souls to, "Come to Daddy!" The lost store up wrath and sin pulling them closer to their destiny. Fortunately, God has a strong drawing power of Grace to thwart Satan's and our actions.
You have to ask, what satisfaction and sense of accomplishment would Satan get from just tempting people to just enter into a soul sleep and then at the end just get to be resurrected and thrown into a fire for a minute of conscious pain? Unless of course hell was eternal, then he would have their company.

Here are some verses that refute soul sleep:
In Job 10:21-22, The "land of darkness and deep shadow" is not a description of a grave.
In Job 11:7-8, The "depths of God" are compared to the depths of Sheol - obviously deeper than 6 feet.
In Job 26:5-6, Hades also means hidden and unseen from us. The description of departed spirits " trembling under the waters" suggests under the crust of the earth's aquifers. "Abaddon has no covering". Abaddon is the angel of the Abyss, the destroyer released during the Apocalypse (Rev. 9:11). So we can see that Abaddon is not in a burial grave or tomb with the bones of a dead person!!!
Job 38:17
"Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?"
This reveals that death is a doorway, it has gates. Jesus made a reference to the gates of Hades in (Matthew 16:18)
In Deuteronomy 32:22, A "fire is kindled" in God's anger "and burns to the "
lowest part of Sheo
l and consumes the earth with its yield and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains". This is a key verse that actually describes a super volcanic eruption that will take place in the end.

" Do not hold back discipline from the child, although you strike him with a rod, he will not die. You shall stike him with a rod and RESCUE his soul from SHEOL." Proverbs 24:13-14 Now obviously discipline does not save us from physical death and the grave. No, this is talking about saving the child's soul from Sheol.

Jonah 2: 1-7 describes Jonah crying out from the "depth of Sheol". The belly of the whale was not a grave. No, Jonah died and cried out to God. "Water encompassed me to the point of death ... I descended to the roots of the mountains, the earth with its bars (gates) was around me forever, but You have brought up my life FROM THE PIT, O LORD my God."
Luke 16:23-31 is not a parable!
Parables don't mension names of real people, like Abraham. What moral truth could be gained from describing a place that does not exist? Parables don't describe fictional, abstract territories.

2 Peter 2:4-6 "For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell ( Tartarus, Abyss, Bottomless Pit, the deepest part of the underworld) and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Matthew11:23 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
This is not referring to the grave, everyone has gone to the grave who died or has been cremated. This is a distinct judgment of a particular city that denied Christ.

Ezekiel 26:20-21 Here again, the lower parts of the earth, " the pit" are mentioned. God says, " I will make you dwell in the lower parts of the earth ... I will bring terrors on you ..." Does that sound like sleeping in the grave?

Ezekiel 32:24 is a prophecy. During the Great Tribulation, inhabitants_ on the earth _ when it splits opens _ will fall into these fissures, the pit, and some will try to climb out in terror and be snared.
Psalm 140:10 " burning coals fall on them ... cast into fire into deep pits from which they cannot arise."] Various snippets taken from " Hell ... If I Know", By Ronald D. Bruno


You'd have to distort the above scriptures, symbolically misinterpret them to conform to your believes. Go ahead, but peddling your false doctrines won't convince the overrwhelming majority of Christians.
 
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Hiddenthings

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May 19, 2025
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I'll try to educate you, but I still think it's a futile task. I have done exhaustive studies on topics of Hell, Hades, the Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, I wrote a book called "Hell... If I Know" and so will share a few insightful pages from it.

[Unbelieving souls go to Hades (the underworld, but separate from Tartarus, where the demons are) and await their final judgment. At that time, they are resurrected to experience their final judgment. Which is what, to go back to Hades or deeper into the Abyss/Bottonless Pit? No, to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is Hell.
Death and Hades are on Judgment Day, thrown into tuenLakebif Fire and destroyed. This event also includes the 1st Heavens ( atmosphere snd universe) and 1st Earth and described in 2 Peter 3:10.
I’ll start with your first reference, because when teaching goes wrong, it’s usually wrong from the outset.

“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the elements will be burned up and loosed, and the earth and the works done in it will be exposed.” (2 Peter 3:10)

Throughout the New Testament, Christ describes his return using the imagery of a thief (Matt 24:42–44; Luke 12:39–40; 1 Thess 5:2, 4, 6; 2 Pet 3:10; Rev 3:3; 16:15). At first glance this language unsettles people, because theft is sinful and Christ is sinless. But that discomfort disappears once the metaphor is properly understood.

A “thief” is not committing a crime when he is reclaiming by surprise what is rightfully his. Scripture itself provides a clear precedent: David’s recovery of his wives and possessions from the Amalekites (1 Sam 30). David was not stealing, he was retrieving what had been unlawfully taken. That is precisely the force of the metaphor Christ uses of himself.

When Christ returns, he is not seizing what belongs to others; he is taking back what is already his. The real thieves are exposed as those servants who, during their master’s absence, consumed his goods as though they were their own. Jesus makes this explicit in the parables of Matthew 24:48–51 and Luke 12:45–47. Their fatal mistake was forgetting that they were stewards, not owners.

That brings us to the crucial question: what exactly is burned up in 2 Peter 3?

Peter speaks of “the elements” (stoicheia), a term Paul repeatedly uses for the Judaistic framework or system (Gal 4:3, 9; Col 2:8, 20). That system was indeed dismantled in AD 70, so the question naturally follows: what future apostate framework could Peter also be pointing to?

Equally important is the word translated “destroyed.” The Greek luō does not mean annihilation; it means to loosen, dismantle, or unbind—like taking down a tent (cf. John 2:19). Peter is not describing cosmic obliteration but the taking apart of an order, the exposure and judgment of a corrupt structure (v.12 confirms this).

Taken together, the language is clearly symbolic, not literal. It describes the Lord’s return as an act of reclamation and judgment: reclaiming what belongs to him and judging those who abused positions of trust.

So here is the question you must answer, Ron and it’s not rhetorical:

How do you know this passage is addressing ecclesiastical powers (Judaistic in Peter's time) but at the time of Christ’s coming?

Go back and read 2 Peter 3 again. Slowly. Carefully. The clues are there, but only if you are willing to let the text speak for itself rather than forcing a framework onto it.