We read throughout the scripture about the baptisim by The Holy Ghost through Jesus Christ. John the Baptist talks about it; saying,(just paraphrasing) I batpize you with water but the one that comes will baptize you with fire, etc. Then after Jesus ascended to heaven his disciples were baptized by The Holy Spririt on The Day of Pentecost. They prayed in tongues and they even had a fire about their heads. Does anyone care to elaborate on this matter? As far as I am concerned when you are baptized by The Holy Spirit it enables your spirit inside your flesh to pray via tongues. Please feel free to post anything you have to say.
The Holy Ghost
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- Dec 31, 2010
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Sashka... Every Christian likes to feel that he is lead of the Holy Spirit. As the scripture says...
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.- Proverbs 12:15
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.- Proverbs 21:2
For some, they get saved and the witness of the Spirit right away. For others the assurance of Salvation in itself is an issue. I have read in antiquity where it has been said that “Man is a Lyre in which the Spirit of God strikes.” And the Apostle Paul asks “Do all speak in tongues?” So I would say things we get from God are unique to the individual. If I had to put a roadmap into the spiritual experiences it would be in metaphor to the Old Testament temple.
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.- Proverbs 12:15
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.- Proverbs 21:2
For some, they get saved and the witness of the Spirit right away. For others the assurance of Salvation in itself is an issue. I have read in antiquity where it has been said that “Man is a Lyre in which the Spirit of God strikes.” And the Apostle Paul asks “Do all speak in tongues?” So I would say things we get from God are unique to the individual. If I had to put a roadmap into the spiritual experiences it would be in metaphor to the Old Testament temple.
- Outer Gates – Justification – Experiencing Faith.
- Alter – Salvation – Experiencing Jesus
- Laver – Sanctification – Committing to a righteous believers standard.
- Inside Temple – Spiritual Sanctification
- Table of Shewbred – Reading God’s word
- Candlestick – Spiritual E (motivation, energy, love) / C2 (Faith, hope, charity, joy)
- Alter of Golden Incense – Prayer and praise!
- The Inner Veil - The eye of the needle! –Matthew 19:24
- The Shekeinah Glory and true Baptism in the Holy Ghost
I agree sashka...I believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the gas [power] that enables a new vehicle [new believer] to walk and live and breathe in their renewed state and also exercise those newly given gifts according to the will of God. Based on many years of observation...this does not always occur at salvation and it takes a little time for some new vehicles to stop at the proverbial Gas station to fill up. ^_^
Shalom!!!
Shalom!!!
goodshepard55
New Member
As with all gifts they are given by the Holy Spirit, however, I have heard too many say..if you do not speak in tongues you have not been filled with the Spirit ....I do believe this is wrong...God gives His gifts as He sees fit..I speak in tongues, my husband does not, but I do know he is just as Spirit filled as I am...He has been Baptisted by the Holy Spirit..He has different gifts..I am an intercessor and watchman...I use tongues to war in the Spirit..He has other gifts...I also believe that different gifts are given when we need them..Like the gift of healing...discernment...
[sub]Acts 2:4 "[/sub]And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Acts 10:44-46 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And all the Jewish believers who had come with Peter were astonished that on the Gentiles also the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God."
Acts 15:8 "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"
Acts 19:1-6 "And when Apollo was in Corinthus, Paulus went about in the upper countries and came to Ephesaus, and was questioning those disciples whom he had found there: and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?" They answered him, "No, we've never even heard of the Holy Spirit." "Into what then were you baptized?" he asked. "Into John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." And when they heard these things, they were baptized in the name of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied."
Everytime the believers received the baptism of the Holy Ghost they spoke in tongues and prophesied! Its simply biblical.
Speaking In Tongues is ONE of the evidences not the only. But it was very common though in the Early Church and in time of revival when people were baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire they spoke in tongues! But the fruit of the Holy Spirit are more important than outward manifestation. I speak in tongues regulary and very much I liken unto Paul when he said in 1 Corinthians 14:18 "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you." I use my heavenly langauge often it is an important part of my walk with Christ. Sometimes God Himself speaks through me in tongues when He speaks though they sound more authortive than when I speak in prayer and praise. I believe every believer should seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire and receive their heavenly language. Being in a service and you hear many people worshipping, praying, and praising God in tongues is heavenly and angelic. Thats why I hold and have been taught that it is the INITIAL evidence not only but the biblical initial evidence!
Acts 10:44-46 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And all the Jewish believers who had come with Peter were astonished that on the Gentiles also the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God."
Acts 15:8 "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"
Acts 19:1-6 "And when Apollo was in Corinthus, Paulus went about in the upper countries and came to Ephesaus, and was questioning those disciples whom he had found there: and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?" They answered him, "No, we've never even heard of the Holy Spirit." "Into what then were you baptized?" he asked. "Into John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." And when they heard these things, they were baptized in the name of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied."
Everytime the believers received the baptism of the Holy Ghost they spoke in tongues and prophesied! Its simply biblical.
Speaking In Tongues is ONE of the evidences not the only. But it was very common though in the Early Church and in time of revival when people were baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire they spoke in tongues! But the fruit of the Holy Spirit are more important than outward manifestation. I speak in tongues regulary and very much I liken unto Paul when he said in 1 Corinthians 14:18 "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you." I use my heavenly langauge often it is an important part of my walk with Christ. Sometimes God Himself speaks through me in tongues when He speaks though they sound more authortive than when I speak in prayer and praise. I believe every believer should seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire and receive their heavenly language. Being in a service and you hear many people worshipping, praying, and praising God in tongues is heavenly and angelic. Thats why I hold and have been taught that it is the INITIAL evidence not only but the biblical initial evidence!
Amen! you don't need to be able to speak in tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit's presence...
Blessings!!!
Sorry but I do not agree with that.
That's fine Sashka...you don't have to agree with me at all...I know this to be true only through others who exhibit other various gifts of the Holy Spirit but do not speak in tongues. ^_^ My friends who are Pastors from another Church are awesome missionaries. The Pastor's wife has created an orphanage in Brazil and her and her daughter decided to take jobs [last year] They saved up to buy a family a house in Brazil because they were so poor. This woman [Pastors wife] does not speak in tongues. She also created English language classes here in my area for people coming from other countries where english is their second language and uses the bible to teach them. Fruit bears in her life in so many ways but that should never have anything to do with gifts [which God hands out freely]. We will be judged by our fruit, not our gifts because Gifts are freely given but fruits bear through our own efforts/ works, which are led by the power and unction of the Holy Spirit...
Be blessed!!!!
Be blessed!!!!
I believe people regardless of position or title or works operate under a different degree of the Holy Spirit. Some allow the Holy Spirit to evidence and influence their lives more son than others. But luckily God is the one who knows the heart of man and can discern whether or not someone genuienly has the Holy Spirit!
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:" 2 Timothy 3:5"
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:" 2 Timothy 3:5"
Scripture gives the final word:
1 Corinthians 12:27-31 ESV
(27) Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
(28) And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
(29) Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
(30) Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
(31) But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.
That God has appointed first apostles, and second prophets, and third teachers, not all are apostles, not all are teachers, or all would be first, as apostle/teachers. But that is not what it says. First, second, third, and so on.
So having clarified that each occupy their own place, apostles, prophets, teachers, then the others, these questions that follow are rhetorical. Are all apostles? No. Are all prophets? No. Are all teachers? No. Do all speak in tongues? No.
"I will show you a still more excellent way." A more excellent way for what? What are these gifts for? They are to serve and build up the body of Christ. And what it the more excellent way?
It is love.
In Christ,
mark
1 Corinthians 12:27-31 ESV
(27) Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
(28) And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
(29) Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
(30) Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
(31) But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.
That God has appointed first apostles, and second prophets, and third teachers, not all are apostles, not all are teachers, or all would be first, as apostle/teachers. But that is not what it says. First, second, third, and so on.
So having clarified that each occupy their own place, apostles, prophets, teachers, then the others, these questions that follow are rhetorical. Are all apostles? No. Are all prophets? No. Are all teachers? No. Do all speak in tongues? No.
"I will show you a still more excellent way." A more excellent way for what? What are these gifts for? They are to serve and build up the body of Christ. And what it the more excellent way?
It is love.
In Christ,
mark
Jon-Marc
New Member
Everyone who is born again has been baptised in the Holy Spirit (not to be mistaken with water baptism), but we do not all speak in tongues. Tongues are not necessary for salvation, nor are they a positive indication of being saved since they are sometimes faked for the purpose of drawing attention to one's self and appearing holy.
Tongues are NOT to be used outloud during a service unless there is an interpreter. Otherwise, as God says in His word, they are to speak only to themselves and to God.
Tongues are NOT to be used outloud during a service unless there is an interpreter. Otherwise, as God says in His word, they are to speak only to themselves and to God.
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Choir Loft
Now I've spoken in tongues as much as anyone I guess. Had my share to be sure, but I tend to agree with those who speculate that the utterances are somewhat prideful in nature. At the least it's an innocent excitement of nonsensical words. At worst, its a disruptive spirit. I've studied the theology on this and one doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the intent of scripture. The bottom line for me is personal freedom. If someone wants to do it in church, why not?
But I do have a question I'd very much like to hear answered.
Why do most of these utterances begin with the phonetic 'SHUNDA'?
I'm not mocking or dissing anyone, but it does seem to be odd in that in many of the churches I've attended all along the east coast of the US whenever tongues are spoken the first word out of anyone's mouth is almost always SHUNDA.
Anyone else ever notice that? Why is that?
but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
But I do have a question I'd very much like to hear answered.
Why do most of these utterances begin with the phonetic 'SHUNDA'?
I'm not mocking or dissing anyone, but it does seem to be odd in that in many of the churches I've attended all along the east coast of the US whenever tongues are spoken the first word out of anyone's mouth is almost always SHUNDA.
Anyone else ever notice that? Why is that?
but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
I think it is easy to get too caught up with the manifestation part of the Holy Spirit and miss the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Manifestations can be faked and learned by others who wish to "join the Holy Spirit club". But being constantly filled with love, joy and peace...well that is a far more formidable thing to emulate if you are just "showing off". 
The tongues issue has brought much confusion and division to the church. We should not forbid the speaking of tongues but this should never be used to "show off". We are together to help each other...not strut our stuff.
I have personally never heard tongues in a newly baptized in the Spirit person that was NOT already influenced into doing so from being conditioned to hearing what tongues sounded like. People pattern off of other people. So much of what we are hearing is a conditioned response to others.
This does not negate the existence of the real gift. The same goes with prophecy. How many put on the "prophetic tone" when seeking to participate in the "gift"? So we must be careful to not overly encourage the use of gifts...without disdaining them in any way. A proper balance would be to test the gift by the elders afterwards. Paul says that the prophets are to submit heir gift to one another. But of course even this will not work unless there is a firm grasp of reality in the leadership. It seems that we go from one extreme to the othjer without stopping too often on the fine razor's edge of balance that is required to judge the spiritual side of the calling of the church.
The tongues issue has brought much confusion and division to the church. We should not forbid the speaking of tongues but this should never be used to "show off". We are together to help each other...not strut our stuff.
I have personally never heard tongues in a newly baptized in the Spirit person that was NOT already influenced into doing so from being conditioned to hearing what tongues sounded like. People pattern off of other people. So much of what we are hearing is a conditioned response to others.
This does not negate the existence of the real gift. The same goes with prophecy. How many put on the "prophetic tone" when seeking to participate in the "gift"? So we must be careful to not overly encourage the use of gifts...without disdaining them in any way. A proper balance would be to test the gift by the elders afterwards. Paul says that the prophets are to submit heir gift to one another. But of course even this will not work unless there is a firm grasp of reality in the leadership. It seems that we go from one extreme to the othjer without stopping too often on the fine razor's edge of balance that is required to judge the spiritual side of the calling of the church.
I like your opinion on tongues in the above post ... I pretty much feel the same way.
I think I have heard that similar sound ...... "SHUNDA" ..... as well ... (all the way up here in Canada)
I haven't spoken in tongues for a long time but my first word(s) phonetically sounded something like ......
...................... "Shooo-La" "Da-Ca-See" "Dee-Bee-See" ...................
(sort of three different words running into each other and forming one word) - (hard to explain)
Interesting topic.
Also when I was a new Christian (around 1986) I did several pages of automatic writing several different times. It was amazing to watch my hand automatically fill every line , perfectly spaced , and no input from me. It was much neater than my normal printing. My hands worked (printed) at a fast pace that I could never duplicate on my own.
I don't think it was Hebrew or Greek , .... it was more like symbols instead of letters . I could see some words repeated here and there , .... meaning that it was not just random gibberish. .... it had the structures of sentences and paragraphs. I am still amazed at how "neat it was" (as in perfectly printed words) ..... like i said I normally cannot do neat lettering .... especially several pages at once.
That was back before the internet , everything about Christianity was new to me and a bit overwhelming at the time .... I was unsure (cautious) both about tongues and the automatic writing so I set it aside and did not continue. Maybe a year or so later I came across an article about the occult and one of the things they did under a spell was automatic writing. (tongues too)
I certainly knew I had no involvement is such things (occult) (never have) but I crumpled up most of the pages of writing I had done and tossed them out just to be on the safe side. Now that I am a mature Christian , I feel it was from The Holy Spirit.
Now I wish I had saved them. With the advent of the internet i could have searched all the ancient languages to see if there was something similar. From memory I think it looked like Egyptian hieroglyphics or something. I still keep an eye out for those papers as I sort through my old records in case there is some left..
To this day I do not know if the Holy Spirit can prompt automatic writing. I am thinking it is possible based on my experience. Still not completely sure.
Anybody else heard of that ?
thanks
Arnie.
I am filled with the Holy Ghost and I speak in tongues! I know that Christ Jesus gave the gift to me because I prayed and tarryed before Him and He sent them to me!
I don't make a lot of recommendations as far as books, but there is a book by Francis Chan called "Forgotten God: Reversing our tragic neglect of the Holy Spirit" and it is amazing.
If you want to see the Holy Spirit in a new and deeper way beyond focusing on speaking in tongues, etc., I would strongly recommend it.
If you want to see the Holy Spirit in a new and deeper way beyond focusing on speaking in tongues, etc., I would strongly recommend it.
God knows how to speak your language. He doesn't understand anything any better especially if you don't even know what you are saying. The Baptism of fire that John the baptist talked about is the baptism to burn up the chaff. The cloven tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost is not the same thing. The cloven tongues of fire were to speak to a diverse crowd in their native languages. The tongues of babel had not been invented yet. Paul didn't want to crossover any lines and say that the tongues of babel were not real so he just said if there is no interpreter then keep it quiet in public.
So if everyone is keeping it quiet in public like the scriptures says. then no one knows if you have the gift of tongues or not. Unless you are speaking the gospel to a stranger in His native language, then He will know.
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Then you need to go back through the prophets and read and listen to what the Holy Spirit said through them. Then read what Christ himself said to even His own followers. You are very much mistaken and setting yourself up for a major fall. When Christ's two witnesses begin their ministry, Young men who are merely following their pastors orders will be consumed by fire when they try to take hold of them. You better be able to accept the truth how ever God chooses to deliver it to you or through who ever He decides to deliver it. Otherwise you will find yourself kicking against the goads.
Wow dude! Are you a christian or a judge. I don't have a prayer language but I would be scared to judge God's child. Just saying!
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