The Holy Spirit In Our Lives

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Mungo

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2012
4,332
643
113
England
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
@Hidden In Him
In their book Receiving The Power, Zeb Bradford Long and Douglas McMurray, two Presbyterian Charismatics, maintain there are two distinctive ways in which the Holy Spirit acts and these are often confused, not the least because the same phrases are used in scripture regarding them. These two ways are referred to by Long & McMurray as ‘the Spirit upon’ and ‘the Spirit within’. Actual quotations from the book are in blue.

There are two major motifs in scripture…that reflect two different operations of the Holy Spirit. One motif has the Spirit coming “upon” people for power in ministry. A second has the Spirit coming “within” people for salvation and to develop in them skill, wisdom, godly character and maturity in faith and love. Both motifs are equally important and equally biblical.

Thus there is an external and internal work of the Spirit. This is true both for the Old Testament and the New. Correspondingly there are two ways of being filled with the Holy Spirit (or full of the Holy Spirit). There are also two ways of receiving the Holy Spirit and two 'baptisms', but I will come to those later as to go into them now would make this post too long.

The external work corresponds to the charismatic gifts of the Spirit which are given for work of ministry (e.g. 1Cor 12:1-11).

The internal work corresponds to the sanctifying gifts of the Spirit, as well as practical gifts (e.g. Gal 5:22-23).

Long & McMurray use the imagery of a tree where, in the external work, the Spirit gives gifts like those on a Christmas tree, which can be added or removed. They are given for ministry and for the building up of the Church. The internal work is more like the sap permeating the tree giving it life and producing fruit that comes from within. Thus the internal work helps us grow in holiness and spiritual fruitfulness.

It is important that these two workings are kept in balance.
As bitter experience has shown, the “Spirit upon” for gifts and power may occur to great effect, but if there is no parallel growth in the inward work of the Spirit, there can follow a loss of power leading to disaster…. Many a large church or impressive evangelistic ministry has been swept away because the preacher or evangelist neglected the inward work of the Holy Spirit becoming proud and unaccountable…

An opposite but equally tragic situation afflicts the Church when there is an inward work of the Holy Spirit but rejection of the outward work. In this case a believer may pursue moral living, altruistic works, concise exposition of the Word and genuine Christian fellowship but demonstrate no spiritual power to set people free from bondage or fulfil the task of evangelism and making disciples…..

This half-full Christianity is as scandalous as the other. The world scorns a powerless church as much as it scorns an immoral one…… Surely the answer to both dilemmas is that we open our lives to both kinds of infilling, to the work of “the Spirit upon” and “the Spirit within”.

Filled with the Holy Spirit
The second expression the Bible uses, filled with the Holy Spirit, is more complicated but it too can be understood in the context of the inner and outer work of the Spirit.

When the New Testament speaks of people being “filled with” or “full of” the Holy Spirit, the Greek word reveals one of two concepts. English translations…. Use the same words for both Greek concepts and do not reflect the difference. One Greek term, pleitho, is used consistently for the outer work of the Holy Spirit and usually refers to a brief temporary filling. Another Greek word pleiroo (or its cognate pleires) is used consistently for the inner work of the Holy Spirit and usually refers to something that gets fuller and fuller until it is saturated. This refers to a state of being.

The distinction between pleitho and plieroo is more or less consistent, whether they speak of being filled with the Holy Spirit or anything else.

“Filled” for Action
The filling referred to by the word pleitho is temporary and followed immediately by action. It corresponds to upon or fell upon.


Examples of pleitho – temporary, for action
“And his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying….” (Lk 1:67)
“Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them……” (Acts 4:8)
“But Saul, who is also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said,….” (Acts 13:9-10).

This kind of filling happens again and again, just as a sponge may be refilled many times…..The disciples were not filled only once on Pentecost, but many times thereafter…..The presence of the Holy Spirit is constant, but the expression of the power is episodic. (my emboldening)

I think this usage is what might be called an anointing.

“Filled” as a State of Being
The other Greek word for being filled with the Holy Spirit, pleiroo (or its alternative pleires), describes something becoming fuller and fuller. The filling does not happen at distinct times, but is a slow progressive saturation, like yeast permeating a dough, and describes a state of being. Usually there is no reference to dynamic action.


Examples of pleiroo/pleires – state of being
“And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit for forty days in the wilderness, tempted by the devil.” (Lk1-2)
“Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom …” (Acts 6:3)
“[F]or he [Barnabus] was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith…” (Acts 11:24)

Summary
We can summarise these findings simply. God wants us to be filled with the Holy Spirit in two distinct senses of the word. He wants us, on the one hand, to be open to all the inner workings of the Spirit in our character, preparing us for eternity and yielding the fruit of the Spirit, especially love. On the other hand, He wants us to be open occasions when we can minister in His power through the gifts of the Spirit.

In the first instance, we “have” the Holy Spirit. He is described as being “in” us to change our character. Christian character arises from the slow, percolating work of the Holy Spirit…


In the second instance, the Holy Spirit “has” us. He chooses to use us in a moment to accomplish a ministry by His power. At no time does the Bible indicate that you or I can “have” the power of God in the same way a New Ager tries to get spiritual power to use for good or evil. This kind of power for service comes and goes….
 

DPMartin

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
2,698
794
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
interesting actual "bible study"

it seems the external Presence calls and saves and the internal Presence keeps and guides there's much more to that but basically it seems to be so. especially in the times of the gospel. even though there may be a healing or something of that nature, it promotes the Presence and the Glory and it also attracts the future faithful by word of mouth.

i do believe it was in acts that Peter and friends prayed for such abilities to strengthen the spread of the gospel message, and it wasn't much longer people were diving into Peter's shadow to be healed. Jesus also made the statement to the effect of if you don't believe Him believe the works, meaning miracles and such. even in the case of one like Billy Graham the Spirit goes through out the crowd to the hearer of the Word, and those who respond to the Presence of God become born thereof. and then have the internal Presence.

before Jesus, I'm not sure about the internal Presence though, God was with many in the OT. that's not to say it couldn't or didn't but the born again of the Holy Spirit unto eternal life, doesn't seem to be said in so many words in the OT.
 

Mungo

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2012
4,332
643
113
England
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
interesting actual "bible study"

it seems the external Presence calls and saves and the internal Presence keeps and guides there's much more to that but basically it seems to be so. especially in the times of the gospel. even though there may be a healing or something of that nature, it promotes the Presence and the Glory and it also attracts the future faithful by word of mouth.

i do believe it was in acts that Peter and friends prayed for such abilities to strengthen the spread of the gospel message, and it wasn't much longer people were diving into Peter's shadow to be healed. Jesus also made the statement to the effect of if you don't believe Him believe the works, meaning miracles and such. even in the case of one like Billy Graham the Spirit goes through out the crowd to the hearer of the Word, and those who respond to the Presence of God become born thereof. and then have the internal Presence.

before Jesus, I'm not sure about the internal Presence though, God was with many in the OT. that's not to say it couldn't or didn't but the born again of the Holy Spirit unto eternal life, doesn't seem to be said in so many words in the OT.

Are you suggesting the the Holy Spirit wasn't working within those in the OT?
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,513
31,695
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are you suggesting the the Holy Spirit wasn't working within those in the OT?
The order of things may have been different for people who wanted to come to God in the OT but there was always a Way and without doubt in my mind, the Holy Spirit was involved. Our God has never changed, OT or NT, He is still the same. The pathway before may appear different to us but the goal for us should be God's every case no matter when or where we encounter Him!
 

DPMartin

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
2,698
794
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are you suggesting the the Holy Spirit wasn't working within those in the OT?
i haven't seen anything to the effect of born again of the Holy Spirit unto eternal life, in the OT.

the promise of Christ coming was understood by those close to the Lord God of Israel but the born of the Holy Spirit as a seal unto salvation isn't testified to by anyone saying they experienced such in the OT. it would seem Jesus had to come and bring the Life to them before they could receive it. that's not to say the spirit didn't envelope people then, such as King Saul and others. but the spirit left King Saul where as born of the Holy Spirit is a permanent thing after Jesus.
 

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,587
113
69
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Hidden In Him
In their book Receiving The Power, Zeb Bradford Long and Douglas McMurray, two Presbyterian Charismatics, maintain there are two distinctive ways in which the Holy Spirit acts and these are often confused, not the least because the same phrases are used in scripture regarding them. These two ways are referred to by Long & McMurray as ‘the Spirit upon’ and ‘the Spirit within’. Actual quotations from the book are in blue.

There are two major motifs in scripture…that reflect two different operations of the Holy Spirit. One motif has the Spirit coming “upon” people for power in ministry. A second has the Spirit coming “within” people for salvation and to develop in them skill, wisdom, godly character and maturity in faith and love. Both motifs are equally important and equally biblical.

Thus there is an external and internal work of the Spirit. This is true both for the Old Testament and the New. Correspondingly there are two ways of being filled with the Holy Spirit (or full of the Holy Spirit). There are also two ways of receiving the Holy Spirit and two 'baptisms', but I will come to those later as to go into them now would make this post too long.

The external work corresponds to the charismatic gifts of the Spirit which are given for work of ministry (e.g. 1Cor 12:1-11).

The internal work corresponds to the sanctifying gifts of the Spirit, as well as practical gifts (e.g. Gal 5:22-23).

Long & McMurray use the imagery of a tree where, in the external work, the Spirit gives gifts like those on a Christmas tree, which can be added or removed. They are given for ministry and for the building up of the Church. The internal work is more like the sap permeating the tree giving it life and producing fruit that comes from within. Thus the internal work helps us grow in holiness and spiritual fruitfulness.

It is important that these two workings are kept in balance.
As bitter experience has shown, the “Spirit upon” for gifts and power may occur to great effect, but if there is no parallel growth in the inward work of the Spirit, there can follow a loss of power leading to disaster…. Many a large church or impressive evangelistic ministry has been swept away because the preacher or evangelist neglected the inward work of the Holy Spirit becoming proud and unaccountable…

An opposite but equally tragic situation afflicts the Church when there is an inward work of the Holy Spirit but rejection of the outward work. In this case a believer may pursue moral living, altruistic works, concise exposition of the Word and genuine Christian fellowship but demonstrate no spiritual power to set people free from bondage or fulfil the task of evangelism and making disciples…..

This half-full Christianity is as scandalous as the other. The world scorns a powerless church as much as it scorns an immoral one…… Surely the answer to both dilemmas is that we open our lives to both kinds of infilling, to the work of “the Spirit upon” and “the Spirit within”.

Filled with the Holy Spirit
The second expression the Bible uses, filled with the Holy Spirit, is more complicated but it too can be understood in the context of the inner and outer work of the Spirit.

When the New Testament speaks of people being “filled with” or “full of” the Holy Spirit, the Greek word reveals one of two concepts. English translations…. Use the same words for both Greek concepts and do not reflect the difference. One Greek term, pleitho, is used consistently for the outer work of the Holy Spirit and usually refers to a brief temporary filling. Another Greek word pleiroo (or its cognate pleires) is used consistently for the inner work of the Holy Spirit and usually refers to something that gets fuller and fuller until it is saturated. This refers to a state of being.

The distinction between pleitho and plieroo is more or less consistent, whether they speak of being filled with the Holy Spirit or anything else.

“Filled” for Action
The filling referred to by the word pleitho is temporary and followed immediately by action. It corresponds to upon or fell upon.


Examples of pleitho – temporary, for action
“And his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying….” (Lk 1:67)
“Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them……” (Acts 4:8)
“But Saul, who is also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said,….” (Acts 13:9-10).

This kind of filling happens again and again, just as a sponge may be refilled many times…..The disciples were not filled only once on Pentecost, but many times thereafter…..The presence of the Holy Spirit is constant, but the expression of the power is episodic. (my emboldening)

I think this usage is what might be called an anointing.

“Filled” as a State of Being
The other Greek word for being filled with the Holy Spirit, pleiroo (or its alternative pleires), describes something becoming fuller and fuller. The filling does not happen at distinct times, but is a slow progressive saturation, like yeast permeating a dough, and describes a state of being. Usually there is no reference to dynamic action.


Examples of pleiroo/pleires – state of being
“And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit for forty days in the wilderness, tempted by the devil.” (Lk1-2)
“Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom …” (Acts 6:3)
“[F]or he [Barnabus] was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith…” (Acts 11:24)

Summary
We can summarise these findings simply. God wants us to be filled with the Holy Spirit in two distinct senses of the word. He wants us, on the one hand, to be open to all the inner workings of the Spirit in our character, preparing us for eternity and yielding the fruit of the Spirit, especially love. On the other hand, He wants us to be open occasions when we can minister in His power through the gifts of the Spirit.

In the first instance, we “have” the Holy Spirit. He is described as being “in” us to change our character. Christian character arises from the slow, percolating work of the Holy Spirit…


In the second instance, the Holy Spirit “has” us. He chooses to use us in a moment to accomplish a ministry by His power. At no time does the Bible indicate that you or I can “have” the power of God in the same way a New Ager tries to get spiritual power to use for good or evil. This kind of power for service comes and goes….


Hi Mungo, no doubt God's Holy Spirit is the most misunderstood teaching in the Bible. Contributing to this is the many ways it is used. Some are anointed by it, creation came through it, we are instructed by it, and every single living thing is animated by it. It is a very interesting part of the Bible, but extremely difficult to understand.
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
23,614
40,303
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The order of things may have been different for people who wanted to come to God in the OT but there was always a Way and without doubt in my mind, the Holy Spirit was involved. Our God has never changed, OT or NT, He is still the same. The pathway before may appear different to us but the goal for us should be God's every case no matter when or where we encounter Him!
The Holy Spirit was at work back then . Yes indeed my friend .
But back then it was the preists and prophets that taught the people .
Today the Holy Spirit is shed upon all who do believe in Christ . We have been made as priests unto God .
The Spirit can teach each individual who has Christ now . Though there are still prophets and teachers in the body .
In those days i will pour my Spirit out unto ALL flesh . All who do believe in Christ .
You can see the Spirit at work in david . Remember one of his pslams .
He said , yet when they were sick or afflicted that he prayed for them , treated them as though they had been a brother
yet they when he was afflicted wanted to see his demise . Words to that effect my friend .
Yes my friend the Spirit was at work even back then . For the main thing was that there was always a remnant
that looked for the coming promise of Christ . They too died in faith , having not seen or recieved that promise , YET had
waited for HIS COMING . So the Spirit was always at work , but often many resisted the SPIRIT
just like stephen told the jews , YOU like your fathers , DO always RESIST the SPIRIT . SO yes indeed my friend
it was there in their days as well .
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus