The importance of church?

[aspen]

I kind of feel like men who wanted to set themselves up as my teachers were basically hindering me from entering in and those that wanted to rule over me were trying to take the place in this temple that belongs to the Lord... it's only the God that get's any Glory in my life... as far as people... the most important thing for me is relationships that are in the Light where He's in the midst of us... I'm over ever being in a place again where a man is called teacher and he has the position of talker and everyone else has the position of listener... to me that's not fellowship... for me it's all about two or more gathered equally in His name and Him being right there with us teaching us and giving us every good thing from the Father above... that's how it is the most real to me.

I see where you are coming from. I certainly do not believe that the people in authority over me are worthy of praise, or are even necessarily, competent - ha! However, without learning to obey authority, we are placing ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage in the world and in our relationship with God. Most of our religious education comes from people directing us to the Bible and methods of worship, etc. Without submission to their authority, I would have questioned every word that came out of their mouths and distrusted all of their teachings. I have had to learn obedience the hard way in life and church.

 

[Robbie]

Not me... if I would have submitted to man's authority in the churches I went to I would have been leavened to death with politics, religion, hypocrisy, judgmentalism, etc...

It was Jesus that said something like, "My sheep won't follow the voice of strangers" and if I don't hear the voice of my Sheppard... I don't follow nor see them as having any authority in my life...

 

[aspen]

Not me... if I would have submitted to man's authority in the churches I went to I would have been leavened to death with politics, religion, hypocrisy, judgmentalism, etc...

It was Jesus that said something like, "My sheep won't follow the voice of strangers" and if I don't hear the voice of my Sheppard... I don't follow nor see them as having any authority in my life...

Well, I cannot say I have been spared from politics and drama at church - I worked in one. I am convinced that 'where two or more are gathered' politics will always be present - it is as inevitable as jerks on the highway......so I understand your repulsion. I am just wondering if you are not going back far enough to realize that somebody had to tell you about the Bible in the first place? I wasn't there....it could have been a peer, rather than someone in authority. For me, it was an authority in the church.

So how do you deal with authority?

 

[Robbie]

The way it went for me was no one in my family went to church... my great grandma was 7th day adventist and was the most bitter judgmental person and pretty much turned everyone away from it... but everyone in my family believed in Jesus and my Mom and Grandma told me to pray before I went to sleep and He'd protect me and I believed them because I knew they loved me and if they told me Jesus loved me I knew they wouldn't lie so I believed... not because they had authority over me... but because I believed what they said because I knew they loved me.

So when I was around 10 I just felt like I wanted to go to church... so I'd walk down the street by myself and there was a protestant church on one side and a catholic on the other... I didn't know the difference or even know what time church started so I'd just go and whichever one was letting people in that's where I'd end up... as far as what either of them taught I have really no recollection... all I knew was I had a desire in myself to know God...

After that my relationship with God grew because my grandma got cancer and my Mom who was already an alcoholic started taking my grandmas morphine to deal the pain of watching her mother die (I wish I knew about Jesus then what I know about Him now) and then when my grandma died my grandpa died 15 minutes later of a heart attack which was devastating for her and also the end of free morphine so my Mom went to heroin... having a Mom who's a heroin addict when you're 12 makes you dependent on a power greater than yourself... the lifestyle my Mom was living I knew was deadly so I would sit at the end of the road and sing songs to God asking Him to keep her safe... every time she came home safe it increased my faith.

So when I was 14 it got really bad... she had divorced my sister's dad and got a new boyfriend who was also a heroin addict... one day he came to our house with a gun and shot holes in all the walls and then was holding the gun to her head... I got on my hands and knees and prayed for God to protect her... he left the house and blew his brains out... once again increasing my faith but when my Mom wouldn't get sober and I walked in on her slamming and her new boyfriend smoking crack I moved out when I was 14... living on your own when you're 14 also makes you dependent on God... haha

After that when I was like 16 or something the next church I went to was Calvary Chapel and Greg Laurie was preaching... He said I needed to confess Christ before men and He'd confess me before the Father so I did and they gave me a bible... I went home and started reading the bible and I got to Mathew 15 where Jesus schools down the pharisees and explains how it's not what enters a mans mouth that makes them unclean but what comes out of the mouth and it was at that moment I was like, "Jesus is God" because that just seemed so spiritually brilliant and it hit me so hard.

After that I hadn't seen to or talked to my Mom for years... well one day I'm driving down the street and there she is driving the other way... I flipped a U-turn and she pulled over and when I saw her the first thing I said was, "I thought you were dead and better off that way" which was a lie from satan because my Mom got sober and you'd never know she was ever that person before and she gave all the glory to God. She said she got on her knees and cried out to God and He saved her... this also added to my faith.

At that point I was entering in... I believed... but since then and now there's been a lot of thing's that has hindered me from entering in, but nothing's hindered me from entering in more than men who have tried to take the place of authority in God's temple that belongs to Him alone. It took a lot for me to break free from that curse but I'm finally back in the place where I don't water down what Jesus says with mans perception. I have One Teacher and One Father and they are One... they are my authority... and if anyone is keeping me accountable to Him I believe I should submit to Him... but that doesn't make them the authority... because if it's me keeping them accountable to Him they should submit also... so it's neither me nor them that are the authority... it is God.

So even though I fail every time I don't submit to Him by judging, or not turning the other cheek, or not loving my enemies, or not giving to those who ask, etc.. that's where I thank Jesus for the revelation of the Father. Because I have nothing to fear of my Father who loved me enough to give up His own Son so I could Live... He's my righteousness... I'm His work in progress... and that's why to Him I say Yours is the Kingdom (authority), the Power (because without Him I could do nothing), and the Glory (because the glory for every good thing belongs to Him alone).

 

[aspen]

The way it went for me was no one in my family went to church... my great grandma was 7th day adventist and was the most bitter judgmental person and pretty much turned everyone away from it... but everyone in my family believed in Jesus and my Mom and Grandma told me to pray before I went to sleep and He'd protect me and I believed them because I knew they loved me and if they told me Jesus loved me I knew they wouldn't lie so I believed... not because they had authority over me... but because I believed what they said because I knew they loved me.

So when I was around 10 I just felt like I wanted to go to church... so I'd walk down the street by myself and there was a protestant church on one side and a catholic on the other... I didn't know the difference or even know what time church started so I'd just go and whichever one was letting people in that's where I'd end up... as far as what either of them taught I have really no recollection... all I knew was I had a desire in myself to know God...

After that my relationship with God grew because my grandma got cancer and my Mom who was already an alcoholic started taking my grandmas morphine to deal the pain of watching her mother die (I wish I knew about Jesus then what I know about Him now) and then when my grandma died my grandpa died 15 minutes later of a heart attack which was devastating for her and also the end of free morphine so my Mom went to heroin... having a Mom who's a heroin addict when you're 12 makes you dependent on a power greater than yourself... the lifestyle my Mom was living I knew was deadly so I would sit at the end of the road and sing songs to God asking Him to keep her safe... every time she came home safe it increased my faith.

So when I was 14 it got really bad... she had divorced my sister's dad and got a new boyfriend who was also a heroin addict... one day he came to our house with a gun and shot holes in all the walls and then was holding the gun to her head... I got on my hands and knees and prayed for God to protect her... he left the house and blew his brains out... once again increasing my faith but when my Mom wouldn't get sober and I walked in on her slamming and her new boyfriend smoking crack I moved out when I was 14... living on your own when you're 14 also makes you dependent on God... haha

After that when I was like 16 or something the next church I went to was Calvary Chapel and Greg Laurie was preaching... He said I needed to confess Christ before men and He'd confess me before the Father so I did and they gave me a bible... I went home and started reading the bible and I got to Mathew 15 where Jesus schools down the pharisees and explains how it's not what enters a mans mouth that makes them unclean but what comes out of the mouth and it was at that moment I was like, "Jesus is God" because that just seemed so spiritually brilliant and it hit me so hard.

After that I hadn't seen to or talked to my Mom for years... well one day I'm driving down the street and there she is driving the other way... I flipped a U-turn and she pulled over and when I saw her the first thing I said was, "I thought you were dead and better off that way" which was a lie from satan because my Mom got sober and you'd never know she was ever that person before and she gave all the glory to God. She said she got on her knees and cried out to God and He saved her... this also added to my faith.

At that point I was entering in... I believed... but since then and now there's been a lot of thing's that has hindered me from entering in, but nothing's hindered me from entering in more than men who have tried to take the place of authority in God's temple that belongs to Him alone. It took a lot for me to break free from that curse but I'm finally back in the place where I don't water down what Jesus says with mans perception. I have One Teacher and One Father and they are One... they are my authority... and if anyone is keeping me accountable to Him I believe I should submit to Him... but that doesn't make them the authority... because if it's me keeping them accountable to Him they should submit also... so it's neither me nor them that are the authority... it is God.

So even though I fail every time I don't submit to Him by judging, or not turning the other cheek, or not loving my enemies, or not giving to those who ask, etc.. that's where I thank Jesus for the revelation of the Father. Because I have nothing to fear of my Father who loved me enough to give up His own Son so I could Live... He's my righteousness... I'm His work in progress... and that's why to Him I say Yours is the Kingdom (authority), the Power (because without Him I could do nothing), and the Glory (because the glory for every good thing belongs to Him alone).

Thanks for telling your story.....God has given you a powerful testimony and it sounds like you have a good reason for believing what you believe! I've learned that experience is a powerful teacher. Blessings!

 

[Robbie]

Much Love Aspen...

 

[jiggyfly]

The way it went for me was no one in my family went to church... my great grandma was 7th day adventist and was the most bitter judgmental person and pretty much turned everyone away from it... but everyone in my family believed in Jesus and my Mom and Grandma told me to pray before I went to sleep and He'd protect me and I believed them because I knew they loved me and if they told me Jesus loved me I knew they wouldn't lie so I believed... not because they had authority over me... but because I believed what they said because I knew they loved me.

So when I was around 10 I just felt like I wanted to go to church... so I'd walk down the street by myself and there was a protestant church on one side and a catholic on the other... I didn't know the difference or even know what time church started so I'd just go and whichever one was letting people in that's where I'd end up... as far as what either of them taught I have really no recollection... all I knew was I had a desire in myself to know God...

After that my relationship with God grew because my grandma got cancer and my Mom who was already an alcoholic started taking my grandmas morphine to deal the pain of watching her mother die (I wish I knew about Jesus then what I know about Him now) and then when my grandma died my grandpa died 15 minutes later of a heart attack which was devastating for her and also the end of free morphine so my Mom went to heroin... having a Mom who's a heroin addict when you're 12 makes you dependent on a power greater than yourself... the lifestyle my Mom was living I knew was deadly so I would sit at the end of the road and sing songs to God asking Him to keep her safe... every time she came home safe it increased my faith.

So when I was 14 it got really bad... she had divorced my sister's dad and got a new boyfriend who was also a heroin addict... one day he came to our house with a gun and shot holes in all the walls and then was holding the gun to her head... I got on my hands and knees and prayed for God to protect her... he left the house and blew his brains out... once again increasing my faith but when my Mom wouldn't get sober and I walked in on her slamming and her new boyfriend smoking crack I moved out when I was 14... living on your own when you're 14 also makes you dependent on God... haha

After that when I was like 16 or something the next church I went to was Calvary Chapel and Greg Laurie was preaching... He said I needed to confess Christ before men and He'd confess me before the Father so I did and they gave me a bible... I went home and started reading the bible and I got to Mathew 15 where Jesus schools down the pharisees and explains how it's not what enters a mans mouth that makes them unclean but what comes out of the mouth and it was at that moment I was like, "Jesus is God" because that just seemed so spiritually brilliant and it hit me so hard.

After that I hadn't seen to or talked to my Mom for years... well one day I'm driving down the street and there she is driving the other way... I flipped a U-turn and she pulled over and when I saw her the first thing I said was, "I thought you were dead and better off that way" which was a lie from satan because my Mom got sober and you'd never know she was ever that person before and she gave all the glory to God. She said she got on her knees and cried out to God and He saved her... this also added to my faith.

At that point I was entering in... I believed... but since then and now there's been a lot of thing's that has hindered me from entering in, but nothing's hindered me from entering in more than men who have tried to take the place of authority in God's temple that belongs to Him alone. It took a lot for me to break free from that curse but I'm finally back in the place where I don't water down what Jesus says with mans perception. I have One Teacher and One Father and they are One... they are my authority... and if anyone is keeping me accountable to Him I believe I should submit to Him... but that doesn't make them the authority... because if it's me keeping them accountable to Him they should submit also... so it's neither me nor them that are the authority... it is God.

So even though I fail every time I don't submit to Him by judging, or not turning the other cheek, or not loving my enemies, or not giving to those who ask, etc.. that's where I thank Jesus for the revelation of the Father. Because I have nothing to fear of my Father who loved me enough to give up His own Son so I could Live... He's my righteousness... I'm His work in progress... and that's why to Him I say Yours is the Kingdom (authority), the Power (because without Him I could do nothing), and the Glory (because the glory for every good thing belongs to Him alone).

Excellent post Robbie very encouraging.

 

[marksman]

Men where never supposed to exercise lordship over men.

Mar 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
Mar 10:44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Bur satan knowing the ignorance of man, set up a hierarchy, called it church and so led men into bondage just as it was in Egypt, just as it was then it is now, christians afraid to leave the safety of church, afraid to come out of bondage. Jesus said He gave us the Holy spirirt to teach us and lead us into the truth, but men cry, no, we want"men" to tell us what to do, we have faith, but only when men tell us what to believe
, and so there they remain, exercising a kind of godliness, but not knowing God, as Jesus said, " they worship me with there mouths but there hearts are far from me". you can serve religion or Jesus, not both. You can only give all of your love to one or the other, you cannot serve two masters.

In His Love

Thank you for that. A very refreshing concept that I had not considered in quite that way.

Robbie, I wish that you were part of our felowship. They would love you to death.