The interpretation of Phil 2: 1 -11 - in proper context and theme

[JustMe]

Well J: As I mentioned before, I will now leave this particular discussion with you, as continuing seems pointless. I am satisfied with my simpler and more fundamental and accenting the kernel form of Christianity, which your revised version does not represent, whether you choose to still dispute this or not, and whether you acknowledge that yours is not the original theology of Yeshua and his apostles.

My Christianity aligns with what Yeshua and the apostles believed, without your added mix of extra human thought and spirit. Mine relies solely on the Spirit of God to interpret, the same singular Old Testament entity called God, and His one Son of God—not your belief in an additional entity, God the Son.

As a member of the Kingdom today, though not yet fully in spirit and mind, I aim to know and live in the same Yeshua as the immortal, victorious man, and Son of God, of the same God whom he and I both worship, sharing the same Spirit of our one God. This spiritual relationship does not make me God in the future, just as Yeshua the man is not God today. Only His and my Father in heaven is God, as scripture states well over a hundred times.

I will not entertain any more of your extreme proof definitions, such as morphe meaning (inner) nature or divine essence, since this is never accurate.

I say, be content with what and whom you believe in, as your foundation is based on human constructs attempting to understand Christianity—like your ideas of incarnation, hypostatic union, and other artificial concepts such as kenosis—and the fact that you do not even consider Yeshua a human person with only one human will. So, let's move on.

Of course, you may respond to this post, although I have already expressed my position and have hinted twice that I will not reply further, and I shall not.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

My Christianity aligns with what Yeshua and the apostles believed, without your added mix of extra human thought and spirit. Mine relies solely on the Spirit of God to interpret, the same singular Old Testament entity called God, and His one Son of God—not your belief in an additional entity, God the Son.

Precious friend, so what will you do with studying about God's Great White Throne Judgment?:

Three Books At Judgment!

 

[Justified]

Well J: As I mentioned before, I will now leave this particular discussion with you, as continuing seems pointless. I am satisfied with my simpler and more fundamental and accenting the kernel form of Christianity, which your revised version does not represent, whether you choose to still dispute this or not, and whether you acknowledge that yours is not the original theology of Yeshua and his apostles.

You haven’t proven otherwise. You’re arguing against 2,000 years of church teachings and have given no support for your beliefs.

My Christianity aligns with what Yeshua and the apostles believed, without your added mix of extra human thought and spirit. Mine relies solely on the Spirit of God to interpret,

No, your beliefs are not biblical and certainly not from the Holy Spirit.

the same singular Old Testament entity called God,

Now you’re contradicting your position. Is that “singular Old Testament entity” God the Father or the Holy Spirit?

and His one Son of God—not your belief in an additional entity, God the Son.

This shows you don’t understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

As a member of the Kingdom today, though not yet fully in spirit and mind, I aim to know and live in the same Yeshua as the immortal, victorious man, and Son of God, of the same God whom he and I both worship, sharing the same Spirit of our one God.

Your god is deficient and cannot be the God of the Bible. Your God cannot be love; that is an impossibility.

This spiritual relationship does not make me God in the future,

Why would it? Where has anyone in this thread proposed such an erroneous idea? Why argue against something no one is arguing?

just as Yeshua the man is not God today. Only His and my Father in heaven is God, as scripture states well over a hundred times.

Jesus is truly and fully God—which is why we can have salvation; why his death was efficacious—and truly and fully human. None of that and none of what Jesus taught precludes from also being truly God. The Jews recognized and three times tried to kill him for it and ultimately was the reason theg had him crucified by Pilate.

I will not entertain any more of your extreme proof definitions, such as morphe meaning (inner) nature or divine essence, since this is never accurate.

Again, you’re making a claim and offering no proof. You stated in your OP:

“Form of God" (μορφή θεοῦ): this refers to role, status, or authority, not ontological divinity. It reflects Yeshua's divine function after exaltation, not an inherent nature. And in contrast with "form of a servant" (μορφὴ δούλου), which denotes a role, not a change in essence.

No evidence for your assertion here either, while ignoring the plain reading of the text.

I say, be content with what and whom you believe in, as your foundation is based on human constructs attempting to understand Christianity—like your ideas of incarnation, hypostatic union, and other artificial concepts such as kenosis—

Using non-biblical words to sum complicated biblical ideas is perfectly fine. You do the same.

and the fact that you do not even consider Yeshua a human person with only one human will. So, let's move on.

No, that is not my position. It is telling that continue to either misunderstand what I’ve said and read into what I’ve written, or that you are purposely misrepresenting what I’ve said.

Of course, you may respond to this post, although I have already expressed my position and have hinted twice that I will not reply further, and I shall not.

Of course you won’t, because that would require evidence for your assertions that you cannot provide.

 

[JustMe]

Precious friend, so what will you do with studying about God's Great White Throne Judgment?:

Three Books At Judgment!

You know I'm not your precious friend so please quit with these empty words.

And as far as your revised personally-charged doctrine of Judgement according to your thread link, nothing.

 

[Fred J]

Go for it, as I'll entertain you.

Hebrews 1:
8. But unto the Son(Jesus) HE(FATHER) saith, Thy throne, O God(Son), is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy(Son) kingdom.
9. Thou(Son) hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God(Son), even thy GOD(FATHER), hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10. And, Thou, Lord(Son), in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 

[JustMe]

Hebrews 1:
8. But unto the Son(Jesus) HE(FATHER) saith, Thy throne, O God(Son), is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy(Son) kingdom.
9. Thou(Son) hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God(Son), even thy GOD(FATHER), hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10. And, Thou, Lord(Son), in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Ok Fred, one of the fine classics selections you chose. Now explain what it says. I'm not mind-reader.

 

[Fred J]

Ok Fred, one of the fine classics selections you chose. Now explain what it says. I'm not mind-reader.

??

'AS IT IS WRITTEN.'

Explanation furthermore in 'brackets' is clear enough even for a 'child'.

Hebrews 1:
3. ...................................................................., when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on High.

Now in the born again bodily spirit blessed church in Jesus name, picture you're in Heaven witnessing for yourself, that after the resurrection Jesus ascended to Heaven.

And Jesus sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on High, and GOD the FATHER said unto Jesus, 'declaring' in the presence of the patriarch of Israel elders and angels, who surely have bowed down.

And also to you having the Holy Ghost who are blessed than unbelievers!

 

[Fred J]

Go for it, as I'll entertain you.

John 20:
28. And Thomas answered and said unto Him(Jesus), My LORD and my God.

Ironically some folly scholars and theologians interpret this verse as Thomas was referring to Jesus and the FATHER.

Don't fall for this 'twisted' heresy church, because Thomas said facing Jesus Himself after knowing it was really Him who's risen.

 

[Fred J]

Go for it, as I'll entertain you.

Romans 9:
5. Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Apostle Paul himself declares in the spirit to the church that Jesus is 'God' blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[rvmb]

Romans 9:
5. Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Apostle Paul himself declares in the spirit to the church that Jesus is 'God' blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Fred J]

Go for it, as I'll entertain you.

Why Jesus is God?

First of all, Jesus is the express image of the invisible GOD the FATHER, the only begotten of the FATHER made in HIS express image. (Heb1:3/John3:16)

Why John 3:16?

The FATHER HIMSELF declares that Jesus is HIS only begotten Son, meaning GOD HIMSELF created the Word in the beginning in HIS express image. (John1:1)

Moreover in Colossians 1:15 is written that the Son is the 'firstborn' of all creature/creation.

Even ironically scholars and theologians rectified the correct translation from the word 'of' to 'over', yet the word 'firstborn' of or over all creature/creation remain.

Meaning, based on all that is created whether in Heaven or on earth, Jesus is included and is the 'firstborn', period

While all other creature/creation in Heaven and on earth are the begotten of the Son, the Word in the beginning, and in these last days, Jesus the son of man and the Son of GOD MOST HIGH.

That why second of all, Jesus Himself is God over all creature/creation after Him, whether in Heaven the works of His hands or on earth the foundation in the beginning He Himself have laid. (Hebrews1:10)

Who created 'lucifer', and all the other angels, the positions and powers in Heaven even to where the FATHER is ?

The Word in the beginning and in these last days, JESUS of Nazareth Himself, even to giving us salvation and powers to become sons of GOD!!

Why Nazareth and not Bethelem?

Because out of Nazareth GOD calls out HIS Son.

The 'list' goes on having the anointing, the Holy Ghost and wisdom given from above.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ the LORD and God of Heaven and earth subjected only to the FATHER.

 

[Fred J]

For the record, am no better and above anyone, but fellow brethren, fellow unworthy servant, and fellow iron sharpens iron, for the Glory of GOD in Jesus name.

 

[rvmb]

For the record, am no better and above anyone, but fellow brethren, fellow unworthy servant, and fellow iron sharpens iron, for the Glory of GOD in Jesus name.

The Father, The HS , Christ in some form pre-existed creation & time as we understand it.
What happened before then, I believe, will be taught to us in eternity

 

[Fred J]

Go for it, as I'll entertain you.

Do you know because of you the word of GOD in correction to you is a lesson for all of us that we've learned where in the scripture is written Jesus is 'God'?

Correction came from GOD and not from us 'vessels', be encouraged and not discouraged, not need to cover up mistakes that is 'exposed', which we also make.

If i were to say Judas is a betrayer and a bad guy, but his mistake is a good lesson for me that i can see am no better than him truthfully during test and trial of faith.

 

[Fred J]

The Father, The HS , Christ in some form pre-existed creation & time as we understand it.
What happened before then, I believe, will be taught to us in eternity

Colossians 1:15, truthfully reads, the Son, the Word, and became Jesus Christ, is the 'firstborn' of or over all creature/creation.

And GOD HIMSELF declared HIS Son to the world He so love, as HIS only begotten Son.

As i would declare my only son to the world as my only begotten with my effort and my wife's in creation.

Jesus didn't ask us to defend Him by 'twisting' the scripture and it's sound doctrine, interpreting otherwise He 'pre-existed' with GOD and the Holy Ghost.

 

[rvmb]

Colossians 1:15, truthfully reads, the Son, the Word, and became Jesus Christ, is the 'firstborn' of or over all creature/creation.

And GOD HIMSELF declared HIS Son to the world He so love, as HIS only begotten Son.

As i would declare my only son to the world as my only begotten with my effort and my wife's in creation.

Jesus didn't ask us to defend Him by 'twisting' the scripture and it's sound doctrine, interpreting otherwise He 'pre-existed' with GOD and the Holy Ghost?

You don't believe that Christ in some form pre-existed creation ?

 

[JustMe]

Hebrews 1:
8. But unto the Son(Jesus) HE(FATHER) saith, Thy throne, O God(Son), is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy(Son) kingdom.
9. Thou(Son) hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God(Son), even thy GOD(FATHER), hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10. And, Thou, Lord(Son), in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Wow, you've lit up the switchboard with other successive posts that I most probably will not get to right now.. You don't get extra credit for volume or quantity only in truth and quality..

Let me just address your initial post- one post at a time might be more prudent. I did not look at verses 10-12 as this speaks solely of the Father God as this is part of a poem to praise and glorify him and his work you know. I believe you wanted to understand the Father's view of his Son in this post.

I believe we require the perspective of a mature adult rather than that of a child. Similar to a child, individuals can easily insert irrelevant words or new ideas that disrupt the sacred words of God.

Hebrews 1 : 1-9 meaning... what does it convey?

Verses 1 and 2: God, the Father, communicated through the prophets before Yeshua's existence and creation. Since Yeshua's existence, conception, birth, and role as the Messiah, God's anointed one, He speaks to humanity only through His Son.

God also created the ages, including those yet to come, through, for, and because of His Son, and, I might add, the church.

Verses 3 and 4: Today, the Son of God is the focal point of His Father's glory and attention because He reflects His Father’s form or image, possessing His logos and Spirit. This allows the Son, as His Father’s personal agent, to uphold and sustain all things related to Himself, the church, and creation, now and in the future. Throughout all ages, He keeps the new creation active and progressing. He embodies the power of God and wields it for the benefit of believing humanity, for God, both in heaven and on earth.

Indeed, the Son of God surpasses what any angel can do, having received a far greater name and role as the true Son of God, Savior of humanity, and sustainer of the new creation.

Verse 5: The Father, on a designated and planned day, conceived a human Son and called Him His own Son, unlike the creation of angels in their time.

Verse 6: When Yeshua was finally born, He brought His angels to worship Him as His true Son, for His own adoration and glory.

Verses 7 and 8: Angels, as God’s agents, perform temporary and limited roles and tasks. However, the Son of God, as His agent, is far superior and carries out grander works—the actual work of God to accomplish His grand plan through His logos or mind for the restoration of all creation.

Because of the Son’s supreme and ongoing work throughout the ages of the developing Kingdom, especially in restoring creation and humanity, God the Father has given His own throne of power to share with His Son.

Verse 9: It all truly began when the Son of God was anointed by His Father to possess His logos and Spirit on that pivotal and glorious day on earth witnessed by John the Baptist. Yeshua was chosen as the Messiah above all His fellow countrymen. Amen.

 

[Justified]

Let me just address your initial post- one post at a time might be more prudent. I did not look at verses 10-12 as this speaks solely of the Father God as this is part of a poem to praise and glorify him and his work you know. I believe you wanted to understand the Father's view of his Son in this post.

No. Context is very important:

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
…
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

The “And” to begin verse 10 links directly back to the start of verse 8–“But of the Son he says.” In other words, the Father is applying Psalm 102:25-27 to the Son, saying it is about him (as well).

Psa 102:25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Psa 102:26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
Psa 102:27 but you are the same, and your years have no end.

This supports what is stated in Heb. 1:2:

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

There is only one possible meaning for verse 2 and one possible meaning for verses 10-12–the Son is truly God and the agent of creation. That is in full agreement with John 1:1-3, 10, 1 Cor. 8:6, and Col. 1:16-17.

Basic logic leads to one conclusion—the Son had to be in existence prior to creation. To deny that is to deny basic logic and say all those passages are telling falsehoods.

God also created the ages, including those yet to come, through, for, and because of His Son, and, I might add, the church.

How could all those things be created through his Son, as you (rightly) claim, if the Son wasn’t in existence, as you also claim? Those are mutually exclusive, contradictory ideas.

 

[Fred J]

You don't believe that Christ in some form pre-existed creation ?

Pre-existed every single creation that is in Heaven and on earth definitely 'yes'.

John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, ...........................................

Before there was anything to be called Heaven and earth besides every single creation in them, in the beginning was the Word. (who in these last days became Jesus in the flesh)

And the Word was with GOD the FATHER, the only begotten of the FATHER, where GOD HIMSELF made the Word in the beginning as HIS express image and His Shinning Glory.

On the other hand, GOD and the Holy Ghost the scripture never read they had a beginning, therefore 'ever existed before time and space'.

Be blessed church in Jesus name because angels themselves unable to know what you know revealed by your ABBA FATHER who art in Heaven and in secret because of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[rvmb]

Pre-existed every single creation that is in Heaven and on earth definitely 'yes'.

John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, ...........................................

Before there was anything to be called Heaven and earth besides every single creation in them, in the beginning was the Word. (who in these last days became Jesus in the flesh)

And the Word was with GOD the FATHER, the only begotten of the FATHER, where GOD HIMSELF made the Word in the beginning as HIS express image and His Shinning Glory.

On the other hand, GOD and the Holy Ghost the scripture never read they had a beginning, therefore 'ever existed before time and space'.

Be blessed church in Jesus name because angels themselves unable to know what you know revealed by your ABBA FATHER who art in Heaven and in secret because of Lord Jesus Christ.

Fj said :-
""Pre-existed every single creation that is in Heaven and on earth definitely 'yes'.""
"""John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, ...........................................""
**
Agreed, Christ "in some form" >> The Word, pre-existed creation.
Now try & convince those who claim Christ was created & or is the archangel Micheal