The Jesuit Origins of Futurism

[Dave L]

No, it is it in the second coming thrones and judgments, including Church members.

Renewal is in the MK. The new heavens and earth are after this one is destroyed.

Nor did you post a complete definition. How shocking!

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 3824 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
paliggenesiva from (3825) and (1078)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Paliggenesia 1:686,117
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah Noun Feminine
Definition

1. new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration
   1. hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death
   2. the renovation of the earth after the deluge
   3. the renewal of the world to take place after its destruction by fire, as the Stoics taught
   4. the signal and glorious change of all things (in heaven and earth) for the better, that restoration of the primal and perfect condition of things which existed before the fall of our first parents, which the Jews looked for in connection with the advent of the Messiah, and which Christians expected in connection with the visible return of Jesus from heaven.
   5. other uses
      1. of Cicero's restoration to rank and fortune on his recall from exile
      2. of the restoration of the Jewish nation after exile
      3. of the recovery of knowledge by recollection

Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. I comes without observation. Flesh and blood cannot enter it. People must be born again to see it.
But you say just the opposite.

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. I comes without observation. Flesh and blood cannot enter it. People must be born again to see it.
But you say just the opposite.

Yes, flesh and blood cannot enter the eternal heavenly kingdom. Enoch and Elijah, who were taken to heaven and will not die until mid trib, are in heaven right now physically.

But the MK is not the heavenly kingdom. Israel rules under the kingship of Jesus from Jerusalem on this earth.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, flesh and blood cannot enter the eternal heavenly kingdom. Enoch and Elijah, who were taken to heaven and will not die until mid trib, are in heaven right now physically.

But the MK is not the heavenly kingdom. Israel rules under the kingship of Jesus from Jerusalem on this earth.

Jesus says nothing of an earthly kingdom.

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus says nothing of an earthly kingdom.

So you dismiss his apostles?

 

[Dave L]

So you dismiss his apostles?

They didn't understand for awhile, being indoctrinated in Judaism (premillinnialism). But we see Peter and Paul refuting those earlier beliefs. Paul placing the rapture after the resurrection on the last day. And Peter presenting the new heavens and earth in place of any millennial ideas.

 

[CoreIssue]

They didn't understand for awhile, being indoctrinated in Judaism (premillinnialism). But we see Peter and Paul refuting those earlier beliefs. Paul placing the rapture after the resurrection on the last day. And Peter presenting the new heavens and earth in place of any millennial ideas.

No.

You just said they contradicted themselves and the bible.

 

[Dave L]

No.

You just said they contradicted themselves and the bible.

The never taught a physical kingdom. They were deluded for a while. That's all.

 

[CoreIssue]

The never taught a physical kingdom. They were deluded for a while. That's all.

You have been answered been answering many times by many people.

So the writers of the new testament lied and wrote the bible in be deluded state. Says you can quote creeds as if they were the bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

So you dismiss his apostles?

He told this parable because they were approaching Jerusalem, and the Apostles thought etcetc

 

[charity]

Clarence Larkin, Dispensationalism's "Yoda" wrote the major treatise on Dispensationalism. Still widely used today. He reveals the Catholic origins of the doctrine thinking it a good thing. Following is an excerpt from his book Dispensational Truth.

“The “Futurist School” interprets the language of the Apocalypse “literally,” except such symbols as are named as such, and holds that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet “future” and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of “Daniel's Seventy Weeks.” This view, while it dates in modern times only from the close of the Sixteenth Century, is really the most ancient of the three. It was held in many of its prominent features by the primitive Fathers of the Church, and is one of the early interpretations of scripture truth that sunk into oblivion with the growth of Papacy, and that has been restored to the Church in these last times. In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who, actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the “Antichrist,” and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and that among Protestants. It is the most largely accepted of the three views. It has been charged with ignoring the Papal and Mohammedan systems, but this is far from the truth, for it looks upon them as fore shadowed in the scriptures, and sees in them the “Type” of those great “Anti-Types” yet future, the “Beast” and the “False Prophet.” The “Futurist” interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book.” Dispensational Truth; pg. 5 Clarence Larkin

Hello @Dave L

Clarence Larking: He may be dispensationalism's 'Yoda', as you scathingly call him, but I have not heard of Him.

I study the Word of God, using the principle of 2 Timothy 2:15, and bring everything that I read from another's hand to the Word of God for confirmation: so that, be it Dr. E.W. Bullinger, or Charles Welch, or any other expositor; all things are brought to that plum-line to be measured for accuracy re. doctrine and application.

* That should be the yard-stick used by all of us regardless of our origins and influences. Why don't you share the glories of Christ with us, instead of attempting to constantly vilify some 'ism, or other. They are in God's hands, as are you and I.

* Consider the splinter or plank (as appropriate) in your own eye, instead of trying to pluck one out of another's eye all the time, it really is not edifying.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Dave L]

Hello @Dave L

Clarence Larking: He may be dispensationalism's 'Yoda', as you scathingly call him, but I have not heard of Him.

I study the Word of God, using the principle of 2 Timothy 2:15, and bring everything that I read from another's hand to the Word of God for confirmation: so that, be it Dr. E.W. Bullinger, or Charles Welch, or any other expositor; all things are brought to that plum-line to be measured for accuracy re. doctrine and application.

* That should be the yard-stick used by all of us regardless of our origins and influences. Why don't you share the glories of Christ with us, instead of attempting to constantly vilify some 'ism, or other. They are in God's hands, as are you and I.

* Consider the splinter or plank (as appropriate) in your own eye, instead of trying to pluck one out of another's eye all the time, it really is not edifying.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

One thing is lacking. You cannot directly support any of the Dispensationalists futuristic claims from scripture.

 

[charity]

One thing is lacking. You cannot directly support any of the Dispensationalists futuristic claims from scripture.

Hello @Dave L,

That is what you claim. I do not choose to satisfy you in regard to that. For I have better things to do with my time. Maybe one day I will, but at a time of my choosing, I will not be forced into a debate with you, at your whim, tempting as it may be.

https://bibleunderstanding.com/The_Apocalypse-E._W._Bullinger.pdf

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dave L]

Hello @Dave L,

That is what you claim. I do not choose to satisfy you in regard to that. For I have better things to do with my time. Maybe one day I will, but at a time of my choosing, I will not be forced into a debate with you, at your whim, tempting as it may be.

https://bibleunderstanding.com/The_Apocalypse-E._W._Bullinger.pdf

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

You can prove yourself right and me wrong with only one direct quote from scripture supporting their plan for the end times.

 

[charity]

You can prove yourself right and me wrong with only one direct quote from scripture supporting their plan for the end times.

No worm on the end of your line will draw me into this at the moment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dave L]

No worm on the end of your line will draw me into this at the moment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Because you cannot support your views with scripture? Just asking.

 

[charity]

That bait won't do it either, @Dave L.

 

[Dave L]

That bait won't do it either, @Dave L.

I don't mean to put you on the spot, but having scripture produces faith. And you can only assume without it.

 

[charity]

I don't mean to put you on the spot, but having scripture produces faith. And you can only assume without it.

Hello @Dave L,

When you say futuristic, what exactly do you mean? I believe that the events which John saw in vision, recorded in the book of Revelation, take place during the period covered by the words, 'The Lord's Day' or 'The Day of The Lord'. Is that what you mean by futuristic?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dave L]

Hello @Dave L,

When you say futuristic, what exactly do you mean? I believe that the events which John saw in vision, recorded in the book of Revelation, take place during the period covered by the words, 'The Lord's Day' or 'The Day of The Lord'. Is that what you mean by futuristic?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

The book of Revelation uses symbols. If we look for the symbol to appear, it will never happen. But if we look at what the symbol represents, we can see it happening today, throughout history, and we can know what to expect in the future. John wrote about things shortly to come to pass and they did, and they continue today with evidence looming for tomorrow's fulfillment.

 

[charity]

The book of Revelation uses symbols. If we look for the symbol to appear, it will never happen. But if we look at what the symbol represents, we can see it happening today, throughout history, and we can know what to expect in the future. John wrote about things shortly to come to pass and they did, and they continue today with evidence looming for tomorrow's fulfillment.

Hello @Dave L,

It would seem, from what you have said, that the burden of proof does not lie with me.

In Christ Jesus
Chris