The judgement of hell came in the first century

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
Hello Soberxp,

I don't believe 1000 years is literal so... I believe that generation had a total of 40 years to repent before they were taken out by God's use of the roman army.

All the best,
Matthew
You have not considered this matter carefully. Believers do not need to be governed, and false believers are not counted. Those who need to be governed are precisely those outside the city. Rev 22

It takes a thousand years of management.

Otherwise it doesn't make any sense.
 
Last edited:

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Hello @soberxp,

I don't think or believe it. So... I just see Revelation 21, 22. There is no 1,000 years.

There is only 1,000 years talked about in the previous chapters. I don't believe 1,000 years is literal.

I told you already, that 1,000 years was 40 years. The total amount of years the people of Israel had to repent and be saved from the Wrath of God... in which the Roman armies took out Jerusalem and those 12 tribes, and the bride of Christ was rescued.

Yahavah let a generation of people die in 40 years somewhere in the old testament.
Just as Jesus states "this generation" so it be the same, to that people then.

So whatever you are telling me is not making any sense.

Grace, and peace,
Matthew
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Hello @soberxp,

I just want to ask you, do you actually read your bible at all? I am just curious.

Grace, and peace,
Matthew
 

rwb

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2022
5,725
2,484
113
74
Branson
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
23:39
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Many Christians who have been to modern Israel have been spat at or ridiculed by Jews,

I wonder if there any Jew who bless Christians that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Reading this passage it's important to properly understand the various ways the word "see" is defined. In this verse the Greek word
εἴδω eídō, i'-do - be aware, behold, × can (+ not tell), consider, (have) know(-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wish, wot.

Would the verse 39 make more sense if read: For I say to you, Ye shall not know/understand/be aware of/behold/perceive ME from this day forward, till ye shall say, Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lor?

When all who are alive at His coming again, then ALL shall come to know/understand/be aware of/ behold/perceive that Christ has come in the name of the Lord.

Romans 14:11 (KJV) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Philippians 2:9-11 (KJV)
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
To the group as a whole,

There are people today that continue say Jesus is coming in 2037 and making up the false predictions and stuff and are lying to many people and like... if those things don't come true... heck ... I wonder how the feel about the totality of their relationship and I wonder if they fall away after the fact.

It really sucks for gullible and mislead people only to be told oh just a little longer, just a little longer.

Experince the victory of the Jesus whom overcame all things today! Overcoming hell, satan, death, and sin...


I feel so sorry for all the gullible people out there that are being misled by so called "Holy" people...

Grace, and peace,
Matthew
 

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
Hello @soberxp,

I just want to ask you, do you actually read your bible at all? I am just curious.

Grace, and peace,
Matthew

From my point of view, I don't think the Bible is just a word for Jews. My understanding is that it's for people all over the world.

You're referring to the generation which is Jesus Christ point out that the generation will not pass away at The Resurrection.
Because no one can live from A. D. 70 to October 10, 2008.

The Jews of that generation have already paid the due price for their deeds. If they had followed the gospel preached by Jesus Christ and believed that Jesus Christ is their Savior, they would not have brought on the suppression of their rebellion by the Roman army; instead, they would have won over the entire Rome with the gospel, just like the disciples and apostles.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Hello @soberxp,

Okay. You can believe whatever you want. I'm just sharing what I do believe is real. Without any proof.

It's 2025. It's been 2000 years already. I don't know what 2008 has anything to do with it.

I am losing my patience. So It's best just to cut the conversation.

Also that is not an answer of whether you read your bible or not... thats fine.

Revelation was for the Jewish people, and I believe there was Gentile people, and Jewish people who made up the bride of Christ within that Generation.

So... to continue would be pointless. I do believe people can gain spiritually by reading the gospels but not everything in that bible is for us today...

Grace and peace,
Matthew
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Thinking that Israel would have overcame Rome makes no sense...

The Old Testament declares the coming of the LORD and wrath upon that nation in EZEkiel.


God took out Israel by the use of the Romans for having his son killed.

'
Look to "The Parable of The Evil Farmers."

Just cause you read Israel in the bible doesn't mean that nation over there that is what it is today....

Sorry.

That's not reality.
 

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
Thinking that Israel would have overcame Rome makes no sense...

The Old Testament declares the coming of the LORD and wrath upon that nation in EZEkiel.


God took out Israel by the use of the Romans for having his son killed.

'
Look to "The Parable of The Evil Farmers."

Just cause you read Israel in the bible doesn't mean that nation over there that is what it is today....

Sorry.

That's not reality.
What I mean is conquering Rome with the gospel. Which is more effective: thirteen people or the entire Israel?
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
What I mean is conquering Rome with the gospel. Which is more effective: thirteen people or the entire Israel?

Soberxp,

Dude... Paul was writing to the people in Rome when he died sharing the Gospel.

What you talk about conquering is irrelevant.

Sorry man, I am done conversing about it, read post 28.

This is a waste of my time and energy.

I will just put you on ignore.

Take care now,
Matthew
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Christian nationalism is a very weird construct.

I hate that people use the bible as though this whole world is gonna change.

Heaven and earth to a Jew - what they understood was "their whole world around them" "their heaven and earth."

That economy was destroyed with fire... and all of their roads demolished and tore up...

God stripped them of it... and replaced it with heavenly Jerusalem... That is the "new heaven and earth" we live under.

We dont go to a temple like they did. We worship God in spirit and in truth. We dont have to go over there.

Just cause you see Israel in the bible doesn't mean that place over there today that was established in 1948...

All the best now,
Matthew
 

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
Soberxp,

Dude... Paul was writing to the people in Rome when he died sharing the Gospel.

What you talk about conquering is irrelevant.

Sorry man, I am done conversing about it, read post 28.

This is a waste of my time and energy.

I will just put you on ignore.

Take care now,
Matthew
It seems you've only considered one scenario...
 

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
Christian nationalism is a very weird construct.

I hate that people use the bible as though this whole world is gonna change.

Heaven and earth to a Jew - what they understood was "their whole world around them" "their heaven and earth."

That economy was destroyed with fire... and all of their roads demolished and tore up...

God stripped them of it... and replaced it with heavenly Jerusalem... That is the "new heaven and earth" we live under.

We dont go to a temple like they did. We worship God in spirit and in truth. We dont have to go over there.

Just cause you see Israel in the bible doesn't mean that place over there today that was established in 1948...

All the best now,
Matthew
I feel like people's minds are not on the same channel. I am on the sober way.....
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
It seems you've only considered one scenario...

Soberxp,

Bro. I use to think Jesus was coming back.

You better off leaving me alone at this point.

I'm kind of done conversing with you.

You acting like everyone else, in that I can't have this view.

lol... you can believe what you want, but I can't believe what I see, in the bible and have read...

Okay my guy.

I wont respond to you like I do to others anymore,

I get tired of this back and forth crap.

Ive read and studied the bible enough to know what I am saying. Regardless of your opinions or anyone elses judgements.

Grace, and Peace,
Matthew
 

BrutalCross

New Member
Dec 5, 2024
21
7
3
The Heavenly Jerusalem
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The problem with your argument is that you are equating a local, temporal judgment on a particular generation with the final judgment of hell. But that is not how Scripture speaks. In ~Matthew 23, Jesus berated the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy and unbelief and declared that they would receive judgment, and in fact they did, at the destruction of Jerusalem. But in the very next verse, Jesus was talking about Gehenna, the place of eternal fire that the Father is going to prepare for the devil and his angels ~Matthew 25:41. That cannot be a reference to an earthly event that had already passed because Gehenna is where the soul and body will be eternally destroyed ~Matthew 10:28.

In the New Testament, hell is never presented as a temporary, historical judgment; it is always presented as an eternal judgment. “Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched” ~Mark 9:48. “who will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord” ~2 Thessalonians 1:9. Revelation is also future-oriented, not past: “The dead were judged… and anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire” ~Revelation 20:12-15.

The point is, the generation of Jesus’ day was indeed subjected to temporal judgment, but that was not the judgment of hell. It was a taste of God’s righteous wrath against sin, a sign of what every nation is in for if they reject His Son. To turn eternal judgment into a local, historical event is to contradict the clear teaching of Scripture. The Word of God is clear: Gehenna, the final judgment of hell, is still in the future, and all who reject Christ will face it when they stand before the Judge.
Got it. so your exegesis is:

Verse 31: “Therefore you testify to yourselves that you are children of those who killed the prophets. (breaking the Mosiac law)

Verse 32: “Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. (Judgment coming for breaking the Mosiac law)

Verse 33: “You serpents, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Gehenna? (judgment that has nothing to do with breaking the Mosiac law!!!)

Verse 35: “that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed between the sanctuary and the altar. (Judgment coming for breaking the Mosiac law)

Verse 36: “Most certainly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Judgment coming in their lifetime for breaking the Mosiac law)

Verse 37: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I would have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! (A lament over Jerusalem because of coming judgment for breaking the Mosiac law)

Verse 38: Behold, your house is left to you desolate. (Judgment coming against the temple for breaking the Mosiac law)

Verse 39: “For I tell you, you will not see me from now on, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’” (the coming of the son of man in Matthew 24:34, which will come in that generation for breaking the Mosiac law)

The judgement of Gehenna is Israel facing national extinction like in Jeremiah

32Therefore behold, the days come”, says Yahweh, “that it will no more be called ‘Topheth’ or ‘The valley of the son of Hinnom’, but ‘The valley of Slaughter’; for they will bury in Topheth until there is no place to bury. 33The dead bodies of this people will be food for the birds of the sky, and for the animals of the earth. No one will frighten them away. 34Then I will cause to cease from the cities of Judah and from the streets of Jerusalem the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride; for the land will become a waste.” (Jer 7:32-34)

the narrative continues in the next chapter

1“At that time,” says Yahweh, “they will bring the bones of the kings of Judah, the bones of his princes, the bones of the priests, the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves. 2They will spread them before the sun, the moon, and all the army of the sky, which they have loved, which they have served, after which they have walked, which they have sought, and which they have worshiped. They will not be gathered or be buried. They will be like dung on the surface of the earth. 3Death will be chosen rather than life by all the residue that remain of this evil family, that remain in all the places where I have driven them,” says Yahweh of Armies.

this is the body and soul/life destroyed in Gehenna/Hinnom in Matt 10:28
 

BrutalCross

New Member
Dec 5, 2024
21
7
3
The Heavenly Jerusalem
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have come to understand the prophetic words of Christ, as do some partial preterits as fulfillment of complete destruction in 70 AD, with Christ also looking beyond the Jewish nation to a Christian nation/people of every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue. I don't claim to be a partial preterit, but an historicist, or one who sees the importance of history fulfilled and that which is yet to be fulfilled.

All these things describing literal physical destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple came to pass just as Christ said it would, but the "this generation" alive when judgment fell upon Jerusalem is not the generation that shall be alive to see things Christ spoke concerning His Church.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Matthew 24:34


Verse 34. This generation, etc. This age; this race of men. A generation is about thirty or forty years. The destruction of Jerusalem took place about forty years after this was spoken. Cmt. on Mt 16:28.

Till all these things, etc. Till these things shall receive a full accomplishment. Till events shall take place that shall be a complete fulfillment, if there were nothing farther intended. He does not mean to exclude here the reference to the judgment, but to say that the destruction of Jerusalem would be such as to make appropriate the words of the prediction, were there nothing beyond. So when death was threatened to Adam, the propriety of the threatening would have been seen, and the threatening would have been fulfilled, had men suffered only temporal death. At the same time, the threatening had a fulness of meaning, that would cover also, and justify, eternal death in hell. Thus the words of Christ, describing the destruction of Jerusalem, had a fulness of signification that would meet also the events of the judgment, and whose meaning would not be filled up till the world was closed.

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible

Verse 34 has been a difficulty with many. The word generation does not mean the people who were then living; it has the meaning of "this race." (Same as 1Pe 2:9, "a chosen generation," i.e., class of peoples.) The Jewish race cannot pass away till these things be fulfilled.

With verse 45 the second part begins. It concerns Christendom. While the seven parables of the Kingdom (chapter 13) teach the beginning, the development and end of Christendom, the three parables of the Olivet discourse show the moral aspect of those who profess Christianity.
The true and the false, the faithful and the unfaithful are uncovered and dealt with.
Got it. so the pharisees are still filling up the measure of their ancestors sins 2000 years later! The Mosaic Law is then still in effect because that is what their breaking.

Basically, your exegesis:
32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. (still happening, still future, despite 70ad)

33You serpents, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Gehenna? (has nothing to do to verse 32, has nothing to do with 70ad, has nothing to do with breaking the Mosaic Law.)

36Most certainly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.(but not really it's still future!)
 

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
May I understand it this way: Since the time of Moses, Yahweh has gathered the Israelites again and again to lead them, yet they have repeatedly betrayed God's love. In the days of Jesus Christ, both God's wrath and love were poured out on the people of that generation.

To be honest, if I were in their place, I might not have done any better than those people back then; I might have been just as bad as them.
 

rwb

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2022
5,725
2,484
113
74
Branson
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Got it. so the pharisees are still filling up the measure of their ancestors sins 2000 years later! The Mosaic Law is then still in effect because that is what their breaking.

Yes, Israel of the flesh to this day is denying the Lord Jesus Christ, remaining in unbelief and continue to be in rebellion against the True God. Orthodox Jews in unbelief are still clinging to the Law of Moses, still waiting for the promised Messiah to come that they might re-establish the Mosaic Law for salvation. Through prophetic message we understand this will continue until the end of days and Christ comes again.

The abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel does not point to 70 AD. It points to the crucifixion of Christ. Even before Christ hang on the cross that part of the Jewish nation remaining in unbelief had already become an abomination unto God. That's what Christ meant we He said to them: Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Here Christ is declaring those Jews remaining in unbelief would not know (see) Him from that very day forward until He comes again, then all people shall say "Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord." People in rebellion against the Lord, both then and still now shall all know Who Christ is when He comes back again when the last trumpet sounds. None in unbelief shall be able to deny Him then.

Not only would all the things Christ foretells shall come to the first century nation of Israel, but also His words apply to all the nations of the world. Christ here is telling His disciples throughout all the ages of this world that as they take the gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the earth all that is written shall come to pass for all mankind.

Matthew 24:13-14 (KJV) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
19,040
5,816
113
35
Alabama
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Paul went to the utter ends of the earth. Therefore the conclusions of all nations, would mean the nations they knew at that time.

People try to use certain passages to justify the means, however, you gotta consider the audience and the time.

People are gullible to manipulation.

You can see all the nations at that time on the bible charts today... It's not that difficult.

All you have is just a quoting of Jesus concerning that ending of the age, and the Gospel narrative would reach more people being the Gentiles and then the end would come.

Everyone and their mother knows about God or Jesus in some form or way little or a lot, cause I remember having dream about the devil with I was just 6 years old.

It's been 2000 years... So, it's just manipulation via the scripture.

Be careful out there.
 

shepherdsword

Encounter Team - Eagle
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 12, 2009
2,037
1,635
113
Millington
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Hello @bdavidc,

The bible says so. Please stop commenting that I telling not the truth. Revelation 21,22 are brand new pictures. That was after hell is done away with in the prior chapter... I find you're comments just belittling but hey differences exist. By all means believe people go straight to hell. It's not like I am not taking "Revelation at its word." Because Revelation is a revealing of what was to come to that generation, and what was to forclose in becoming new. While you believe that has not yet happened.

Great.

Love you,
Matthew
He is simply pointing out that you are totally ignoring the lake of fire:

Rv 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


You are cherrypicking and not considering the whole council of God.