The Key to Discipleship

[APAK]

Think you're nailing it ......I have the same problem with what Epi brings.....it often sounds as though hei is talking about being born again, as if we aren't already....it's as if he and we don't have the same starting point. Other times it doesn't sound like that. I often find it confusing.

But I doubt he will come into the light and explain himself in the light of scripture....so far he evades that and just resorts to personal ad hominem attacks instead. As if we are just supposed to take his word for everything rather than God's word.

Agree and with RJ aswell...

 

[Ritajanice]

A superficial understanding doesn't have any power.

How can we have a superficial understanding, if we have been Born Again and see the Kingdom of God, with our newly born spiritual eyes and ears....as new babes we are on our spiritual journey with the Lord, who grows us and matures us in the Spirit?

Not looking to argue Epi, just trying to understand what you are saying.

 

[Ritajanice]

Amen. And He, Jesus, is that imperishable seed that was planted in us through the word and by His Spirit.

Love it!!...Amen!!...

Maybe I’m still on milk,lol,xx

 

[Episkopos]

Epi, now before you keep on with slamming folks because they do not understand some of your words, and the same goes for me, can you slow down and explain them.

For example. what does 'go to him' as you responded to Lizbeth, mean?

We are to seek first...as our number 1 priority as His people...the kingdom of God and His righteousness.

What is taught now is that this doesn't need to be sought for (the very opposite of Christ's teaching) since it is "already ours" in the very first step of our believing. As such we are taught (in this scheme) that we are already rich and in need of nothing.

Yet, we are warned over and over again...in both Testaments...that this is the way of death...to assume and presume..no matter HOW much favour has been shown to us.

Favour is deceitful. Sheker haCHen.

If people understood the balance of God's ways, they would not jump at whatever looked easy. The modern take on the gospel is foolishness...not having any wisdom at all...like sheep to the slaughter.

God does not hate the original people of God. He is showing up the pride of Gentiles just like He did to the Israelites. And nobody seems to be paying attention. Yet a little fear and a little wisdom can save us.

Just as so many Israelites were cut off...so we also will be. There will be weeping and anger. (Yet this is preventable by a simple obedience...but people WILL NOT see it.)

I want to catch this one as it seems to pop up quite a lot. It's apparently a coded expression and very important to you, for your doctrine. 'Going to Christ' must mean that one is not already present in Christ's spirit? Or it might mean to pray more consistently and with more genuine zeal to Christ to be closer to his spirit even more, more into focus into our lives. How do you think our spirits are physically related or attached together as believers? completely bonded? Interfacing and intertwined or fused together as a hybrid spirit evolving in to Christ? I have not the foggiest idea? Do you? I would guess the energies of both our spirits are shared or bonded somehow, then with access to the Father God (Unitarian view and not your Binitarian view)

Also this 'going to him' comes off as if one still is absent of the Spirit of God. And we are still seekers after God. Does not the Spirit of God bring the Son's spirit into a person once they meet God's criteria for salvation and they become a new creature?

It is one thing to get a visit...say from the police at your home...and a whole other thing to be arrested and put in jail. There is a change of locations.

What I find is that people make NO distinction between a sample and the full product.

The police visit FAR more people than they imprison. And the Lord visits far more people than He translates into His kingdom realm. Many are called but few are chosen.

So you say to Lizbeth she has a superficial understanding. And then immediately follow-up with the usual type of rant, with the same accusation of being religious, puffs up by it etc.

That's exactly what is happening. A religious certainty KILLS faith. It also kills the kind of fear that makes one wise. So then religious certainty is foolish. Like the foolish virgins who assumed and presumed they had all they needed. Jesus says...I don't know you.

To know the Lord one must go to where HE IS. There are many abiding places in the heavenly kingdom realm. We are called to walk there...to sit there. Not assume we are there by a religious philosophy...no...to walk in the power that raised Jesus from the dead. To walk as Jesus walked...in the light as He is in the light.

Well then are you not responsible to fix it for her, and explain it to her, and me and others. Else why listen to you because you are not prepared to explain it. You say you have the truth, now explain yourself. clearly.

Thanks

I have explained all these things in great detail...too much really. The more accurate I get, the less I'm understood. But I'm not happy to remain obscure, using verses that can be taken the wrong way.

So then if I remain vague...people will not be upset with me...but neither will they be helped. If I get specific and helpful, well, the truth hurts the pre-conceived notions of those who feel they are much farther ahead than they actually are.

What to do?

I continue speaking the truth in as many facets as possible...so that if possible some might understand and believe the gospel.

 

[Lizbeth]

Love it!!...Amen!!...

Maybe I’m still on milk,lol,xx

Sister, I believe each one is given their own portion.........you be sure to hold onto yours in a day when the foundation comes increasingly under attack!

 

[Episkopos]

How can we have a superficial understanding, if we have been Born Again and see the Kingdom of God, with our newly born spiritual eyes and ears....as new babes we are on our spiritual journey with the Lord, who grows us and matures us in the Spirit?

Not looking to argue Epi, just trying to understand what you are saying.

A tree is known of its fruit. What is the light we are to walk in that cleanses us from all sin?

The higher walk in the kingdom realm...in God's righteousness.

If we have only known the limitations of the flesh in our walk...then we have not yet walked "in" the Spirit.

"Christ in you" is the hope of glory....the sample of glory. Entering INTO Christ is the actual experience of glory...by faith (not hope). His kingdom of light IS in glory. The best kept secret in the world.

 

[Episkopos]

Sister, I believe each one is given their own portion.........you be sure to hold onto yours in a day when the foundation comes increasingly under attack!

This is fear-based thinking...holding on to your precious sample as if any call beyond that is a threat to you. That's why I say you have a religious spirit based on a religious certainty. You misunderstand God's way in Christ.

The foundation is fully NOT YOU or in you. It is found IN CHRIST. No fear is necessary...only faith.

Love is a better way than fear. Perfect love casts out fear. You are far too poor in love.

 

[Ritajanice]

A tree is known of its fruit. What is the light we are to walk in that cleanses us from all sin?

The light is the Spirit, his light should shine brightly from within us, if we are truly Born Again.his fruit should manifest itself in us.

Bearing fruit signifies the manifestation of God's transformative work within us, which is seen in our love, kindness, patience, and other virtues

The higher walk in the kingdom realm...in God's righteousness.

We are already in the Kingdom when we become Born Again by the Spirit...we grow and mature in the Spirit, our faith grows and grows, we are being made into the image of Jesus, our minds are being transformed by the Spirit.

If we have only known the limitations of the flesh in our walk...then we have not yet walked "in" the Spirit.

I don’t understand this....we start learning to walk in the Spirit the moment we become Born Again, it’s a spiritual journey, we are Gods vessels / children to use as however is pleasing to him, to use to bring all Glory to his and Jesus Name......

"Christ in you" is the hope of glory....the sample of glory. Entering INTO Christ is the actual experience of glory...by faith (not hope). His kingdom of light IS in glory. The best kept secret in the world.

It’s the Holy Spirit in us , being Born Of The Spirit is the actual spiritual, rebirth ,....what do I mean when I say that Gods word is Alive in Spirit?

 

[Ritajanice]

Sister, I believe each one is given their own portion.........you be sure to hold onto yours in a day when the foundation comes increasingly under attack!

Do you mean he gives us each a measure of God given faith?

 

[Episkopos]

Do you mean he gives us each a measure of God given faith?

A sample....a measure is not the FULL measure.

 

[Ritajanice]

A sample....a measure is not the FULL measure.

Faith is a gift from God, a manifestation of the Spirit, now , because it came from God, it will take root, grow, mature , produce the beautiful fruit of Jesus.

A Born Again is Born Again of imperishable seed...and does the above...

 

[APAK]

We are to seek first...as our number 1 priority as His people...the kingdom of God and His righteousness.

What is taught now is that this doesn't need to be sought for (the very opposite of Christ's teaching) since it is "already ours" in the very first step of our believing. As such we are taught (in this scheme) that we are already rich and in need of nothing.

Yet, we are warned over and over again...in both Testaments...that this is the way of death...to assume and presume..no matter HOW much favour has been shown to us.

Favour is deceitful. Sheker haCHen.

If people understood the balance of God's ways, they would not jump at whatever looked easy. The modern take on the gospel is foolishness...not having any wisdom at all...like sheep to the slaughter.

God does not hate the original people of God. He is showing up the pride of Gentiles just like He did to the Israelites. And nobody seems to be paying attention. Yet a little fear and a little wisdom can save us.

Just as so many Israelites were cut off...so we also will be. There will be weeping and anger. (Yet this is preventable by a simple obedience...but people WILL NOT see it.)


It is one thing to get a visit...say from the police at your home...and a whole other thing to be arrested and put in jail. There is a change of locations.

What I find is that people make NO distinction between a sample and the full product.

The police visit FAR more people than they imprison. And the Lord visits far more people than He translates into His kingdom realm. Many are called but few are chosen.


That's exactly what is happening. A religious certainty KILLS faith. It also kills the kind of fear that makes one wise. So then religious certainty is foolish. Like the foolish virgins who assumed and presumed they had all they needed. Jesus says...I don't know you.

To know the Lord one must go to where HE IS. There are many abiding places in the heavenly kingdom realm. We are called to walk there...to sit there. Not assume we are there by a religious philosophy...no...to walk in the power that raised Jesus from the dead. To walk as Jesus walked...in the light as He is in the light.

I have explained all these things in great detail...too much really. The more accurate I get, the less I'm understood. But I'm not happy to remain obscure, using verses that can be taken the wrong way.

So then if I remain vague...people will not be upset with me...but neither will they be helped. If I get specific and helpful, well, the truth hurts the pre-conceived notions of those who feel they are much farther ahead than they actually are.

What to do?

I continue speaking the truth in as many facets as possible...so that if possible some might understand and believe the gospel.

Well thank you for reviewing the elements of your doctrine via my post. I still have issue in understanding it, to be truly honest. I will relook it and reply in kind for some type of edification and understanding. And I hope to improve on it in the near future.

Let me tell you what I already see from the start in your reply. Even the verse you use to begin to build up to your apex message is misused or misplaced and not useful for your discussion. It only confuses. It really does not add much to your message of real glorification by faith by being into Christ in the Kingdom realm, the experience of glorification in an actual sinless state....

(Mat 6:30) Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is here today but tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not more surely care for you, O you of little faith!
(Mat 6:31) Therefore, do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, How shall we be clothed?
(Mat 6:32) For the Gentiles clamour for all these things; even though your heavenly Father knows you have need of them all.
(Mat 6:33) So seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
(Mat 6:34) Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Now many believers use this verse as an application to an already converted one in Christ. I believe this is not the case at all. In context, Christ preached to non-believers to seek God's Kingdom so they would be in the comfort of the Spirit, to live by the Spirit and then they would not be focused on the fresh, the carnal mind and the worries in the world; to then impress upon them to become converted as believers, not when they are already believers. And this thought is congruent with when Christ taught his followers his prayer, really for a future conversion; before they were converted.. too seek the Kingdom.....etc.

In Matt 6:33 I read the rudiments of him wanting his audience to be saved FIRST to understand his discussion....and they then will understand Godly life in his spirit.

and then the Lord's prayer...

(Mat 6:7) And in praying do not use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do, for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
(Mat 6:8) Therefore, do not be like them! Even before you ask Him, your Father knows what things you need.
(Mat 6:9) In this manner you should pray: Our Father who is in heaven, let Your Name be glorified.
(Mat 6:10) Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
(Mat 6:11) Give us this day our daily bread.
(Mat 6:12) And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
(Mat 6:13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
(Mat 6:14) For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
(Mat 6:15) But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matt 6:33 is the same thought as in Matt 6:10
Matt 6:32 is the same thought as is in Matt 6:8

These sections of scripture convey that one can/must seek and then know the Kingdom FIRST to become converted and being saved. And that would be later in time at the Day of Pentecost.

This was the simplest way/ language for him to convey this message of salvation at this point in his mission, of the gospel of the Kingdom.

So when a believer says say on this site today,. to suggest we must seek the Kingdom of God first etc...I smile and grin to myself, as I have already done so as I'm a genuine believer in Christ today. And I think they are not regarding or reading the context of the scripture at all. It is advice for seekers, and not believers.

So already I have a general issue even from the starting gate....

Anyway, let me relook it again....thanks for the reply

-----------------------

 

[Episkopos]

Well thank you for reviewing the elements of your doctrine via my post. I still have issue in understanding it, to be truly honest. I will relook it and reply in kind for some type of edification and understanding. And I hope to improve on it in the near future.

Let me tell you what I already see from the start in your reply. Even the verse you use to begin to build up to your apex message is misused or misplaced and not useful for your discussion. It only confuses. It really does not add much to your message of real glorification by faith by being into Christ in the Kingdom realm, the experience of glorification in an actual sinless state....

(Mat 6:30) Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is here today but tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not more surely care for you, O you of little faith!
(Mat 6:31) Therefore, do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, How shall we be clothed?
(Mat 6:32) For the Gentiles clamour for all these things; even though your heavenly Father knows you have need of them all.
(Mat 6:33) So seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
(Mat 6:34) Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Now many believers use this verse as an application to an already converted one in Christ. I believe this is not the case at all. In context, Christ preached to non-believers to seek God's Kingdom so they would be in the comfort of the Spirit, to live by the Spirit and then they would not be focused on the fresh, the carnal mind and the worries in the world; to then impress upon them to become converted as believers, not when they are already believers. And this thought is congruent with when Christ taught his followers his prayer, really for a future conversion; before they were converted.. too seek the Kingdom.....etc.

In Matt 6:33 I read the rudiments of him wanting his audience to be saved FIRST to understand his discussion....and they then will understand Godly life in his spirit.

and then the Lord's prayer...

(Mat 6:7) And in praying do not use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do, for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
(Mat 6:8) Therefore, do not be like them! Even before you ask Him, your Father knows what things you need.
(Mat 6:9) In this manner you should pray: Our Father who is in heaven, let Your Name be glorified.
(Mat 6:10) Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
(Mat 6:11) Give us this day our daily bread.
(Mat 6:12) And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
(Mat 6:13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
(Mat 6:14) For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
(Mat 6:15) But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matt 6:33 is the same thought as in Matt 6:10
Matt 6:32 is the same thought as is in Matt 6:8

These sections of scripture convey that one can/must seek and then know the Kingdom FIRST to become converted and being saved. And that would be later in time at the Day of Pentecost.

This was the simplest way/ language for him to convey this message of salvation at this point in his mission, of the gospel of the Kingdom.

So when a believer says say on this site today,. to suggest we must seek the Kingdom of God first etc...I smile and grin to myself, as I have already done so as I'm a genuine believer in Christ today. And I think they are not regarding or reading the context of the scripture at all. It is advice for seekers, and not believers.

So already I have a general issue even from the starting gate....

Anyway, let me relook it again....thanks for the reply

-----------------------

And thank you for your comments....

It should be remembered that Jesus was sent to the people of God not to "unbelievers of the Gentiles". The disciples were called out from the people, the general population, for training. They represent believers who are in the lower walk...not yet translated into the holiness walk of God. So then Jesus' teachings are DIRECTLY applicable to Christians. Most believers will never know the higher walk. Just as them, the Lord would rebuke the little to no faith we exhibit most of the time.

God's ways are always pertinent.

There was no access into the higher walk until Jesus was resurrected.....giving us access to the Father through abiding in Him...in His heavenly abode.

 

[APAK]

And thank you for your comments....

It should be remembered that Jesus was sent to the people of God not to "unbelievers of the Gentiles". The disciples were called out from the people, the general population, for training. They represent believers who are in the lower walk...not yet translated into the holiness walk of God. So then Jesus' teachings are DIRECTLY applicable to Christians. Most believers will never know the higher walk. Just as them, the Lord would rebuke the little to no faith we exhibit most of the time.

God's ways are always pertinent.

There was no access into the higher walk until Jesus was resurrected.....giving us access to the Father through abiding in Him...in His heavenly abode.

And then there's your 'lower walk' facet of, now a believer before the Day of Pentecost who is only in training, to match the use of scripture in Matthew....no need to reply Epi. This is the stuff though that keeps me confused...as moving the goal posts or watching a moving target.

I will assemble it all over time....

 

[amigo de christo]

Think you're nailing it ......I have the same problem with what Epi brings.....it often sounds as though hei is talking about being born again, as if we aren't already....it's as if he and we don't have the same starting point. Other times it doesn't sound like that. I often find it confusing.

But I doubt he will come into the light and explain himself in the light of scripture....so far he evades that and just resorts to personal ad hominem attacks instead. As if we are just supposed to take his word for everything rather than God's word.

Born again . Born again . i hear this a lot .
and yet many who think themselves to be born again , seem to preach a gospel that DENIES having to BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
KEY SIGN that one has been born again . THE SPIRIT .
and BY THAT SPIRIT no man would call JESUS accursed , ALL OTHER RELIGOINS DO THAT .
and by that SPIRIT and ONLY BY THAT SPIRIT does ONE CALL HIM LORD .
so , yeah that rules any other religoin or atheist OUT . cause THEY DONT CALL HIM CHRIST OR LORD .
BINGO . epi is in grave and deadly danger . LET us not forget what JOHN said about folks
who bring not THAT GOSPEL . Epi is dangerous the all inclusive social gospel DEADLY . that be a fact .
A fact that none will be able to DENY ON THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Born again . Born again . i hear this a lot .
and yet many who think themselves to be born again , seem to preach a gospel that DENIES having to BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
KEY SIGN that one has been born again . THE SPIRIT .
and BY THAT SPIRIT no man would call JESUS accursed , ALL OTHER RELIGOINS DO THAT .
and by that SPIRIT and ONLY BY THAT SPIRIT does ONE CALL HIM LORD .
so , yeah that rules any other religoin or atheist OUT . cause THEY DONT CALL HIM CHRIST OR LORD .
BINGO . epi is in grave and deadly danger . LET us not forget what JOHN said about folks
who bring not THAT GOSPEL . Epi is dangerous the all inclusive social gospel DEADLY . that be a fact .
A fact that none will be able to DENY ON THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

View attachment 43566

 

[amigo de christo]

A sample....a measure is not the FULL measure.

a measure is not a full measure . true indeed .
but any measure that cometh of the social gosple is a BULL MEASURE . just a friendly reminder .
TIME WE PREACH THE TRUE GOSPEL and DENY THE SOCIAL GOSPEL FROM HELL . DO be encouaraged epi .
The social gospel is A FULL measure , OF BULL .

 

[Episkopos]

And then there's your 'lower walk' facet of, now a believer before the Day of Pentecost who is only in training, to match the use of scripture in Matthew....no need to reply Epi. This is the stuff though that keeps me confused...as moving the goal posts or watching a moving target.

I will assemble it all over time....

I appreciate your step-wise approach on this. It is worthy of a disciple.

 

[Cassandra]

His Living word is to be glorified not the Bible.the Bible is his written word..

Then if the Bible is also His word, what it says must be glorified as well. You need to be well read to make sure what the spirit tells you is true.We are told to test the spirits.
The Bible does not promote once saved always saved or the teachings of Calvinists.