The Key to Discipleship

[David H.]

That's exactly what is happening. A religious certainty KILLS faith. It also kills the kind of fear that makes one wise. So then religious certainty is foolish. Like the foolish virgins who assumed and presumed they had all they needed. Jesus says...I don't know you.

To know the Lord one must go to where HE IS. There are many abiding places in the heavenly kingdom realm. We are called to walk there...to sit there. Not assume we are there by a religious philosophy...no...to walk in the power that raised Jesus from the dead. To walk as Jesus walked...in the light as He is in the light.

It only confuses.

Gonna Jump in here with my take if y'all don't mind....
I think Epi is making a Valid point above salvation has become a mental ascent to assurance as opposed to a journey to full assurance. If you speak the doctrines right you have faith and you can be assured of that.... Blessed assurance as the Old Hymn sings. But this is not what the word of God speaks, Assurance is something we arrive at as we mature, as we work out our faith with fear and trembling. The "conditional security verses are there for this purpose in scripture. For me growing up in fundamentalist churches, you say a prayer, confess Jesus as Lord and you are saved, and you can be sure of that. This causes complacency, makes faith a "finished thing" and not a journey to the full assurance of the faith... Our faith is assured as we are transformed into Christ-likeness, the finished work of faith.

I Have seen the conditional secuity vs. the OSAS camp fighting each other continually.... They are both right and wrong simultaneously... the verses in scripture that challenge the OSAS camp are there for a reason so that they wake up from their Laodicean complacency and delusion and walk the journey to the full assurance of the faith, where we know we are his not because the Bible says so, but because we have walked the higher walk and finished the race and arrived at the full assurance of the faith. Much of fundamentalism has fallen into this jump to eternal security, without the journey to the full assurance of the faith, For me personally it was not until I embraced the fact that the church I am part of is the Laodicean church, and could admit that I needed Gold refined in fire eyesalve to see, and white raiment to cover my nakedness....It was only then the transformation began, the Spiritual growth. Most, not all, of fundmentalism is sitting there poor blind and naked and do not even realize it... They have not even begun the journey to the full assurance of the faith and sit there as children thinking they are adults because they can spout off doctrine and creed.

 

[APAK]

Gonna Jump in here with my take if y'all don't mind....
I think Epi is making a Valid point above salvation has become a mental ascent to assurance as opposed to a journey to full assurance. If you speak the doctrines right you have faith and you can be assured of that.... Blessed assurance as the Old Hymn sings. But this is not what the word of God speaks, Assurance is something we arrive at as we mature, as we work out our faith with fear and trembling. The "conditional security verses are there for this purpose in scripture. For me growing up in fundamentalist churches, you say a prayer, confess Jesus as Lord and you are saved, and you can be sure of that. This causes complacency, makes faith a "finished thing" and not a journey to the full assurance of the faith... Our faith is assured as we are transformed into Christ-likeness, the finished work of faith.

I Have seen the conditional secuity vs. the OSAS camp fighting each other continually.... They are both right and wrong simultaneously... the verses in scripture that challenge the OSAS camp are there for a reason so that they wake up from their Laodicean complacency and delusion and walk the journey to the full assurance of the faith, where we know we are his not because the Bible says so, but because we have walked the higher walk and finished the race and arrived at the full assurance of the faith. Much of fundamentalism has fallen into this jump to eternal security, without the journey to the full assurance of the faith, For me personally it was not until I embraced the fact that the church I am part of is the Laodicean church, and could admit that I needed Gold refined in fire eyesalve to see, and white raiment to cover my nakedness....It was only then the transformation began, the Spiritual growth. Most, not all, of fundmentalism is sitting there poor blind and naked and do not even realize it... They have not even begun the journey to the full assurance of the faith and sit there as children thinking they are adults because they can spout off doctrine and creed.

Is this topic NOW about OSAS or OSNAS?? Assurance of what again, being saved? Part versus full assurance so says who? Scripture? And what does scripture say about assurance of salvation David? It is not what I'm reading in this thread at all.

 

[Behold]

false gospel...so muddled that there is nothing in common with the truth. You want to "let Jesus die for your sins" I can't explain to you how manipulative that is.

God sent Jesus as : John 3:16

God sent Jesus as : 2 Corinthians 5:19

God sent Jesus as : John 3:17

Jesus was sent to the Cross, as God's will.

The Cross of Christ is where Jesus died for your sin.., or you still have it all.

So, as you believe that GOSPEL is muddled and untrue, then that would explain why you have no relationship with The Gospel that Paul preaches. @Episkopos

 

[Behold]

Epi, now before you keep on with slamming folks because they do not understand some of your words,

He doesn't understand them.. he just rants them at will.

The "American nomenclature" for what He's doing is "riffing" or "acid rapping", but he uses some "christianese" terms, so that the kiddies who don't know where they put their bible...."fall for it".
Noting new.

The NT term for his ministry of Luke 11:35 ... dark words... is "vain jangling".

 

[David H.]

Is this topic NOW about OSAS or OSNAS?? Assurance of what again, being saved? Part versus full assurance so says who? Scripture? And what does scripture say about assurance of salvation David? It is not what I'm reading in this thread at all.

No its not directly the topic, it is however what I am reading here with those in the fundamentalist camp opposing what Epi is saying. The ones opposing what is said are falling victim to this mentality that Epi addresses, and they do not see it as they spout off doctrine and creed with a lack of experience of what salvation really means.

For the record, I write as the Spirit leads me, sometimes the words are for someone else not the one addressed in the post. There are those who believe in eternal security who have never experienced what this means, and then they berate Spiritual experience as if it is secondary to what the bible says.... They claim eternal security as theirs without having experienced the full assurance of the faith themselves in their journey. In reality, there should be no OSAS vs. OSNAS conflict in the church. Col. 2:2

case and point above....

 

[Behold]

Jesus, who is our Righteousness, is also our our Eternal Life.

Reader,

The KOG is not something you pick up, like a bar-bell.
Its not a piece of land the size of Canada.

The KOG is God Himself and Christ. Its their Kingdom of LIGHT.

"God exists IN LIGHT", and "Jesus is the LIGHT of the world.".

Jesus said, (Prophetically) that """ the KOG is within YOU...""

What is that?

A.) "CHRIST in you.. .the hope of Glory" and Glory is Heaven.

How do you enter the KOG?


AA.) Jesus said.."You Must be born again"

 

[Behold]

. They claim eternal security

"The Gift of Eternal Life" is eternal Security.

How to get it?

Jesus said..>"all that believe in me, I give unto you, ETERNAL LIFE.... and you shall never go to Hell, (perish)"

Who has been given this Eternal Security? (Eternal life)..

A.) Everyone who has done what Jesus told them to do..

This..

Jesus said...."you must be Born Again".

 

[Ritajanice]

Then if the Bible is also His word, what it says must be glorified as well. You need to be well read to make sure what the spirit tells you is true.We are told to test the spirits.
The Bible does not promote once saved always saved or the teachings of Calvinists.

The Bible is his written word, a Born Again is a disciple, you need to be “ Born Again “ to understand God’s word, ...that is the Supernatural spiritual rebirth, once that happens , then we are taken through the word of God via his Holy Spirit....as we are spiritual children of God.

Without the Spirit we are none of His, as his word says, that can only be witnessed to our spirit, supernaturally by the Holy Spirit, who indwells our spirit, as soon as we have been Born Of The Spirit.

Gods word says, that a Born Again is Born Again of imperishable seed that “ liveth and abideth forever “, that means his seed the “Holy Spirit “ liveth and abideth forever in our heart.....you can’t understand that without being Born Of The Spirit, so, I disagree, once Born Again, we cannot be un- birthed...as our spirit has been Born Again, are you able to answer my questions I asked you, further back on the thread?...

Are you Born Again?

Did you understand the scripture that I posted?

 

[Behold]

. The modern take on the gospel is foolishness..

Find yourself here.. @Episkopos , according to your own words.


KJ21
For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who perish; but unto us who are saved, it is the power of God.

ASV
For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God.

AMP
For the message of the cross is foolishness [absurd and illogical] to those who are perishing and spiritually dead [because they reject it], but to us who are being saved [by God’s grace] it is [the manifestation of] the power of God.



God says that its the "foolishness of preaching that saves".. 1 Corinthians 1:21

And what is that TRUE GOSPEL message that is preached?

"The Cross of Christ".

 

[Ritajanice]

Then if the Bible is also His word, what it says must be glorified as well.

The Bible is Gods “ written word” we worship God in “ Spirit and truth “.we don’t worship the Bible, the word of God is Alive and Active in Spirit, again that can only be understood if we are Born Again....” Spirit gives birth to spirit....we have the Living Holy Spirit who indwells our heart.

1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version

​

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Anyway, this is the second time now I have tried to explain this to you, I won’t be explaining again, only God can penetrate the heart to understand his word, bye,bye and enjoy the rest of your day.lol.

 

[David H.]

"The Gift of Eternal Life" is eternal Security.

How to get it?

Jesus said..>"all that believe in me, I give unto you, ETERNAL LIFE.... and you shall never go to Hell, (perish)"

False, those in hell have eternal life too.... Think about it. Unquenchable thirst, because they failed to drink the living water. Eternal security comes in experience and understanding not in belief. faith is the first step on the journey to God's Kingdom. Full assurance the last step, when we are truly Christ like and love one another as Christ Loved us....Agape, the new commandment.

 

[Behold]

False, those in hell have eternal life too....

It's not "false', is contextually specific, @David H.

Look at John 5:40... Jesus is talking about a specific LIFE.. He's not just talking about the fact that the spirit never ends.

This is the same idea as Jesus saying..>>"i give you life and that more Abundantly".

Well, you are already ALIVE.. so, Jesus is speaking about HIS Eternal LIFE>.

See, you are only thinking of = the spirit never ends.......as a time frame that is eternal.

But Eternal Life, is not a time frame, its a LIFE IN God, and its shown in this verse..

Jesus said...>"I Am, The Way... The Truth.....and THE LIFE"...


See THAT LIFE?

That is Eternal life, and Jesus gives you THAT LIFE, if you give God your faith in Christ.


And if you never do, then you will exist for all eternity, in The Lake of Fire, and that is also a LIFE.... but its not eternal Life in Christ.

The Life of an unbeliever, who dies never born again, never having received the LIFE In Christ, .. they remain forever in : 2nd Death.

And that is not DEATH.. that is THEIR Eternal Death, continuing..... that is not connected to GOD's Life that is Eternal life found in Christ.

Life apart from God's Spirit is "in Adam".. = death.

And to be born again, is Eternal life "in Christ'.. as.. .'"ONE with God".

 

[APAK]

No its not directly the topic, it is however what I am reading here with those in the fundamentalist camp opposing what Epi is saying. The ones opposing what is said are falling victim to this mentality that Epi addresses, and they do not see it as they spout off doctrine and creed with a lack of experience of what salvation really means.

For the record, I write as the Spirit leads me, sometimes the words are for someone else not the one addressed in the post. There are those who believe in eternal security who have never experienced what this means, and then they berate Spiritual experience as if it is secondary to what the bible says.... They claim eternal security as theirs without having experienced the full assurance of the faith themselves in their journey. In reality, there should be no OSAS vs. OSNAS conflict in the church. Col. 2:2

case and point above....

Now camps is the new shiny object as the way of distraction as the major feature ..the 'fundamentalist' camp? 'Falling victim' to this mentally. Really, I think not David.

So bring your experience of salvation and speak in terms of it in how one camp differs from the other so-called camp as you have defined it, with specifics?

You see this thread and others like it, speak to a 'new' way to salvation, of acquiring a special knowledge of a small club of saints who are saved in the Kingdom in glory today or have been before, versus those commoner type believers that are not get glorified who are still carnal and need help or the truth that thus far this truth is not seen in scripture. This is the ISSUE David. Why do you not speak to this crucial area that has caused so much separation without skirting around it again.

Are you up to the challenge or are you going to continue speak in generalities?

Thanks

 

[David H.]

It's not "false', is contextually specific, @David H.

Look at John 5:40... Jesus is talking about a specific LIFE.. He's not just talking about the fact that the spirit never ends.

This is the same idea as Jesus saying..>>"i give you life and that more Abundantly".

See, you are only thinking of = the spirit never ends.......as a time frame that is eternal.

But Eternal Life, is not a time frame, its a LIFE IN God, and its shown in this verse..

Jesus said...>"I Am, The Way... The Truth.....and THE LIFE"...


See THAT LIFE?

That is Eternal life, and Jesus gives you THAT LIFE, if you give God your faith in Christ.


And if you never do, then you will exist for all eternity, in The Lake of Fire, and that is also a LIFE.... but its not eternal Life in Christ.

The Life of an unbeliever, who dies never born again, never having received the LIFE In Christ, .. they remain forever in : 2nd Death.

And that is not DEATH.. that is THEIR Eternal Life, that is not connected to GOD's Life that is Eternal life found in Christ.

Life apart from God's Spirit is "in Adam".. = death.

And to be born again, is Eternal life "in Christ'.. as.. .'"ONE with God".

missing the point.... I can believe that I am a pilot, but if I have never been in a cockpit experiencing flight even though i know alot about flying I am not a pilot. That blessed assurance we have as believers comes not from belief but experiencing flying on HIS eagle wings. Eternal security is not a doctrine we believe but an experience we live and accomplish in our Spiritual journey. You will never understand full assurance until you begin your journey there in humility Saying I need Jesus to open my eyes so I can see the journey before me.

 

[David H.]

Are you up to the challenge or are you going to continue speak in generalities?

When opposition comes in generalities then generalities are the appropriate response.... You may not be ready to hear what is being said. Let's start by asking which camp are you in? OSAS or OSNAS? I am in neither and simultaneously both... Both see some truth, and lack other truth. So In see brothers and sisters in Christ in Both camps.... But they have not grown up into Christ because they are still fighting each other.... Ephesians 4:11-16

 

[Lizbeth]

Born again . Born again . i hear this a lot .
and yet many who think themselves to be born again , seem to preach a gospel that DENIES having to BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
KEY SIGN that one has been born again . THE SPIRIT .
and BY THAT SPIRIT no man would call JESUS accursed , ALL OTHER RELIGOINS DO THAT .
and by that SPIRIT and ONLY BY THAT SPIRIT does ONE CALL HIM LORD .
so , yeah that rules any other religoin or atheist OUT . cause THEY DONT CALL HIM CHRIST OR LORD .
BINGO . epi is in grave and deadly danger . LET us not forget what JOHN said about folks
who bring not THAT GOSPEL . Epi is dangerous the all inclusive social gospel DEADLY . that be a fact .
A fact that none will be able to DENY ON THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST .

And if any man have not the spirit, he is none of His........wrote the apostle by that same Spirit.

Jesus said in John 3 "Ye MUST be born again." "Except ye be born again you cannot see the Kingdom of God." "Except ye be born again of water and of the spirit you cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Reading further in that same chapter John 3…..some are fond of quoting v. 17 to make a case that the whole world will be saved after death, while they ignore the very next verse 18……Jesus doesn’t need to condemn anyone because if they believe not on Him they are condemned already.

Jhn 3:17-19

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


Jhn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



Being born of the spirit by faith and belief in Christ is the rule, and I don’t see how that can be disputed when Jesus Himself said it so clearly.



But IF the Lord sometimes makes exceptions to this rule, then I’m open to considering that IF it can be shown in scripture, which so far nobody seems willing or able to show by the word of God in a coherent way. We are supposed to search the SCRIPTURES to see if anything be so, aren’t we? I’m not afraid of the word of God - if it’s true I want it, and if it isn’t true I don’t want it, simple as that – I have no vested interest.

(And IF the Lord makes exceptions to this rule, then seems to me the exception surely shouldn’t be taught as a rule, because that would be misleading and dangerous doctrine.)

I would also like to learn whether or not there is a difference between the spirit being saved and the soul being saved, because I wonder if possibly that might speak to some of this…? I have no problem with looking into that as well. Like where it says to “hand that one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit might be saved”….? Does that mean as opposed to his soul being saved? (since soul and spirit are two different words in the Greek.)

Anyway, these are questions I'm bringing to the Lord.

 

[APAK]

When opposition comes in generalities then generalities are the appropriate response.... You may not be ready to hear what is being said. Let's start by asking which camp are you in? OSAS or OSNAS? I am in neither and simultaneously both... Both see some truth, and lack other truth. So In see brothers and sisters in Christ in Both camps.... But they have not grown up into Christ because they are still fighting each other.... Ephesians 4:11-16

Opposition in generalities...as you continue to be, not I. And I'm reattempting or re-engaging you once more to be specific and so you might yet understand the issue at hand.

David, I see you are not understanding my posts or maybe you are deliberately avoiding the ONE issue I presented to you and I continue to do. And its not of a camp of OSAS or eternal security.

Have you actually read through the posts in this thread? And if you did you know its not directly about OSAS or eternal security. So why do you insist it does and that's the only thing in your mind, and to write about here? Can you keep these beliefs on the backburner for now and find a way to just address the issue? It cannot not be that difficult right?

I'm not addressing OSAS or the opposite or even eternal security that means a great deal to you. I will be happy to discuss that for a different time and setting if you wish, and then you might want to tie these areas with what Epi is speaking about. I have lots to say on it in fact. You are currently mixing your eternal security belief and of your experience in it with your spiritual walk and Epi's version of a new gospel. I also walk with experience in the spirit as others do. You are not unique.

That those that oppose Epi basically do so because they do not believe in his apparent presentation of a false gospel, of extra-scriptural infusion and origin. That simple. The devil is in the details as they say. And you have not read the details l I suspect, yet.

You are confusing and hiding this issue if you still continue to mask it with thoughts and prose of eternal security and OSAS or not, of two camps you have created for them.

Last engagement if you persist in deliberately ignoring my post and of others. And then I might see you have an agenda.

Thanks

 

[Cassandra]

The Bible is Gods “ written word” we worship God in “ Spirit and truth “.we don’t worship the Bible, the word of God is Alive and Active in Spirit, again that can only be understood if we are Born Again....” Spirit gives birth to spirit....we have the Living Holy Spirit who indwells our heart.

1 Corinthians 2:14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Anyway, this is the second time now I have tried to explain this to you, I won’t be explaining again, only God can penetrate the heart to understand his word, bye,bye and enjoy the rest of your day.lol.

No one said we should worship the Bible. Where you come up with this stuff is beyond me. This was my second time trying to explain to you as well. .
May I just say that before, I had you on ignore because I found your thought processes too skewed, and ignore is an option for all of us to use. Then, a day or two ago, I noticed that you were popping up again, and couldn't figure out why. I looked at your avatar and see that you are now part of support and i can't ignore you.
So since you are part of some support team, can you try cutting this type of stuff out?
" bye,bye and enjoy the rest of your day.lol." I have no clue why you are laughing. It's kind of juvenile.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

 

[David H.]

I'm not addressing OSAS or the opposite or even eternal security that means a great deal to you. I will be happy to discuss that for a different time and setting if you wish, and then you might want to tie these areas with what Epi is speaking about. I have lots to say on it in fact. You are currently mixing your eternal security belief and of your experience in it with your spiritual walk and Epi's version of a new gospel. I also walk with experience in the spirit as others do. You are not unique.

That those that oppose Epi basically do so because they do not believe in his apparent presentation of a false gospel, of extra-scriptural infusion and origin. That simple. The devil is in the details as they say. And you have not read the details l I suspect, yet.

I Don't think Epi is presenting a false Gospel but rather the true Gospel as the Apostles preached. I think the fact that some cannot see what he is saying as Biblical is because they are living in Laodicean comlpacency... saying they are in need of nothing. What is the source of this? As Tozer said, the Gospel died in the hands of its friends. Orthodoxy without the revelation of the Spirit. He called it textualism... or the cult of texualism.
Look up "No revival without reformation" on sermon index to see the details. I am on a device i am not familiar with as my laptop is broken and i cannot figure out how to copy and paste links here. my time is brief here because of this. so i keep my posts brief.