I totally agree with marksman and the scriptures he put forth were great for this topic. These pastors of mega churches are mainly teaching prosperity, and the bible says the opposite: Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. And Luke 16:13 "No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."Also 1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.Hebrews 13:5Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."1 Peter 5:2 "Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve;Ecclesiastes 5:10Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless.These verses talk about being rich.Proverbs 28:6Better a poor man whose walk is blameless than a rich man whose ways are perverse.Matthew 19:23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.Matthew 19:24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."Luke 6:241 Timothy 6:9"But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort."People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.James 2:5 Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?The reason the rich can't enter the kingdom of God is these people are too rapped up in their wealth, living a great live, as far as having all the money they need. What will they need God for, there life is great. They have no reason to turn to God.
The key to evangelism
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marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I am sorry but you are wrong
'Fraid not. The survey was produced by megachurch leaders themselves and they came up with the information.The fact that you were saved by reading a Joyce Myer book does not make her ministry right. Remember that God used a donkey to accomplish his purpose. Does that mean we should all go out and buy a donkey to do the will of God? The fact that anything that a person writes is only God's will if it is supported by scripture.
And if I am not mistaken Jesus had crowds of 5000 men plus more women and children that followed Him I would say thats a mega church. So are you saying He was wrong in doing that?
What I will say is the obvious and that is Jesus wasn't building the church so the simile is not relevant.
I am very sorry but I feel your comments towards these mega churces are driven by jealasy
I am not at all jealous as I am very secure in my relationship with God. The only place I want to be is where God has planted me and the only thing I want to do is build God's Kingdom. I know he has annointed me with the gift of prophetic teaching so I do not expect everyone to get excited about what I say as God usually calls me to challenge the status quo.
If you have sound argumants against these people and what they preach
You have already been given sound arguments but you have chosen to ignore them. If prosperity is taught by God in the word, then Paul was a complete failure as all he knew was persecution, want and distress.
because God is blessing the good work they are doing by giving them a nice life
Where in the word does it say you will have a nice life if you are a christian. Do you consider the verse "many are the afflictions of the righteous, but God will deliver them out of them all" means that you will have a nice life?
But believe me they do more for christianity than most other people
This is a rather trite statement bearing in mind that 360,000 christians were martyred for their faith last year and every day hundreds of thousands of christians live in fear of their lives because they are christians and the fact that they could die any moment if the government decides that they are a nuisance and have to be eradicated.The sort of gospel they are preaching in all probability produces people who would scatter at the first sign of persecution. Only determined disciples can withstand persecution, not those who want "a nice life."Sorry to be so blunt, but it has to be said. I have been through the prosperity thing and it is a load of rubbish. Our calling is to take up our cross, not our dollars and follow Him.
'Fraid not. The survey was produced by megachurch leaders themselves and they came up with the information.The fact that you were saved by reading a Joyce Myer book does not make her ministry right. Remember that God used a donkey to accomplish his purpose. Does that mean we should all go out and buy a donkey to do the will of God? The fact that anything that a person writes is only God's will if it is supported by scripture.
And if I am not mistaken Jesus had crowds of 5000 men plus more women and children that followed Him I would say thats a mega church. So are you saying He was wrong in doing that?
What I will say is the obvious and that is Jesus wasn't building the church so the simile is not relevant.
I am very sorry but I feel your comments towards these mega churces are driven by jealasy
I am not at all jealous as I am very secure in my relationship with God. The only place I want to be is where God has planted me and the only thing I want to do is build God's Kingdom. I know he has annointed me with the gift of prophetic teaching so I do not expect everyone to get excited about what I say as God usually calls me to challenge the status quo.
If you have sound argumants against these people and what they preach
You have already been given sound arguments but you have chosen to ignore them. If prosperity is taught by God in the word, then Paul was a complete failure as all he knew was persecution, want and distress.
because God is blessing the good work they are doing by giving them a nice life
Where in the word does it say you will have a nice life if you are a christian. Do you consider the verse "many are the afflictions of the righteous, but God will deliver them out of them all" means that you will have a nice life?
But believe me they do more for christianity than most other people
This is a rather trite statement bearing in mind that 360,000 christians were martyred for their faith last year and every day hundreds of thousands of christians live in fear of their lives because they are christians and the fact that they could die any moment if the government decides that they are a nuisance and have to be eradicated.The sort of gospel they are preaching in all probability produces people who would scatter at the first sign of persecution. Only determined disciples can withstand persecution, not those who want "a nice life."Sorry to be so blunt, but it has to be said. I have been through the prosperity thing and it is a load of rubbish. Our calling is to take up our cross, not our dollars and follow Him.
There is nothing wrong with a mega church as long as it's not:a) A business
An entertainment driven churchc) A racist churchd) A church that goes against scripture (a really liberal church, etc.)
And if I am not mistaken Jesus had crowds of 5000 men plus more women and children that followed Him I would say thats a mega church. So are you saying He was wrong in doing that?Also that was Jesus, who was perfect, that is a lot different than just any person doing it.(Haven't figured out how to quote yet, sorry)
I'm going to dip my toe into this pool really quick and just ask:A) Marksman, I'm curious as to what you mean by the "gift of prophetic teaching." Not a challenge, just curious.
Matthew 7:21-23, that Marksman quoted...scariest verses in the Bible, IMHO.C) I tend to agree, that megachurches tend to be high on the wishy-washy squishy Jesus-loves-everyone, everything is alright as long as you say you love Jesus; and low on the you-need-to-get-your-life-in-line-with-God, fear of the Lord type stuff.D) Proverbs 1:7--"The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction."E) Per the original topic of this thread: I think witnessing necessary must be a combination of showing God's wrath and his love. Without God's love, preaching His wrath gives the listener no hope (not to mention very often turns him off); without God's wrath, God's love is pointless and unnecessary, and often leads to the average lukewarm Christian of today...confessing Christ with their mouths, but confessing the world with their lives.I could probably come up with F,G & H, but I think that will do for now
Here are some more verses1 Timothy 6:3-11"If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."1 Timothy 6:17-19"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."
I don't think we should "preach" anything. we need to let God work on us and then by our examples others might come to know Christs love.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
True to the end, If you want to quote, highlight the passage you want to quote, right click on it and click on copy. Then paste it into your reply (right click), highlight it and then click on the icon above that lookes like a page with a tail (second in from the right). The words will be wrapped in quotes when you do that and appear as a quoteMedicalmatt, the gift of prophetic teaching is a gift that challenges the status quo and sets out the change necessary to fulfill God's purpose. The teaching is always based on what the scripture says and usually challenges tradition. If you want to see some examples, go to my website http://churchalive66.googlepages.com
I don't think we should "preach" anything. we need to let God work on us and then by our examples others might come to know Christs love.
I understand what you are trying to say but it is not entirely true as the following verse indicatesRom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without preaching? The word preaching means "herald as a public crier especially of the divine truth of the gospel."Paul spent a lot of his time preaching in the synagogue and the public square arguing for the truth of the gospel.
I don't think we should "preach" anything. we need to let God work on us and then by our examples others might come to know Christs love.
I understand what you are trying to say but it is not entirely true as the following verse indicatesRom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without preaching? The word preaching means "herald as a public crier especially of the divine truth of the gospel."Paul spent a lot of his time preaching in the synagogue and the public square arguing for the truth of the gospel.
Marksman I am sorry last time I wrote I was a bit upset with the comments made not just by you but by others as well I see now your comments were not meant in the way I understood them. I can also see you are a very mature christian and at first I disrecarded your comments but I was mistaken.Although I know a lot of your statements are correct I believe you are judging some of these churches without full evidence. According to my experience with these mega churches they do not only teach prosperity and this is were I feel you are making your mistake. I agree if it was only a bussiness it would be wrong but I see there motives as pure so I believe they are doing good work.And it does NOT say in the Bible you have to be poor to be a christian. If those leaders were asked to give up all there money I believe they would. And yes God does give you a nice life He might not have given 1 to Paul but a lot of the kings had great lifes at certain stages and they were people God loved.I think you are close to God but I believe you are making 2 mistakes. You are judging all of these mega churches as the same thing wich they are not(and you have no right to judge) and secondly you believe your life has to be miserable to be a christian its a lie some times it will be hard but other times God will bless you with a life you could not dream or imagine.God likes to bless His children just let Him
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Thankyou for those kind words Craig. They are much appreciated. Let me point out that I do not comment on anything unless I have done extensive research on the topic.I have read their books and done some research on mega churches, especially in Australia where I live. So far I have come to the conclusions that they are clones of each other. Here the leading mega church is Hillsong with 18,000 attendees. I have found out that they lose 50% of their membership every five years to be replaced by mainly young people. My son attends a mega church in another State and this is the clone of Hillsong. There is at least one in every state.I went to one megachurch and during the praise, everyone in the congregation adopted the same pose as the leader of the church ( they held up their hands in identical fashion i.e. one hand palm face upwards with fingers slightly bent).Whether their motive is pure is not for me to judge. However, their motive may be coloured by less than pure motives. See my website http://churchalive66.googlepages.com and go to the "rejection motivating ministry" page. I do not think that I suggested that poverty was a condition of true christianity. The best definition I know of regarding prosperity is having your needs met (not your wants) and having enough left over to meet the needs of others. What are my needs? God knows and he has promised to meet all of them. I cannot in all honesty believe that owning a Rolls Royce is a need.
I have to say marksman I agree with you totally. And I also have a problem with people only doing what the pastor does because everyone else is doing it not because there motives are pure. But hopefully the more they go to church and imatate the paster the more they learn how great our God is and actually adopt Him as there own saviour.I agree a lot of people are going to mega churches for the wrong reasons but at least they are starting to go to church and they hear God's message. As for the nice life well lol I also agree I do not NEED a nice life but I do think that God truly loves us and wants to give us all a nice life all though we do not deserve it. I think its a very fine line between living a nice life and still serving God and living a nice selfish life.I think its an subject between you and God. But I have heard countless stories were people have prayed for nice houses and cars and received them although they did not need such nice things. If God knows the motives of your heart is true He will bless you beyond what you can dream ,or so I believe.Australia is great I live in South africa but want to go study teolagy in America anyone know good contacts? My parents are not that wealthy.God bless
