The Kingdom of God - do we have access to it now?
- Thread starter Karl Peters
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
<sigh> There is no debate. There is only you dodging a simple YES or NO question.
Yet, you keep posting things EXCEPT the answer.
You have a new word......apparently.
Yes. Anticipate my use of the word esoteric with all of your 10+ paragraph responses to things like a YES or NO question.
And you dodged another YES or NO question about my granddaughter.
Again, not that it is a debate but my question about the 2 yo asking for "MORE" reveals the absursity of your indoctrination. The on ramp to your esoteric world view is to pretend like dictionaries do not exist and words have to be defined. This is good for a few preliminary parapgraphs to establish your preferred orientation of how to pedantically look at the world.
I suppose this is why Christ spoke about taking the plank out of your eye. Your pride in being the superior teacher talking to inferior students is seen in your judgment that many here don't know what the Kingdom of God is. So arrogant! So unlike Christ. Honestly, you are not doing yourself or Christ any favors or service.
That kingdom is within the individual faithful. That's why it is spread across the earth yet we do not see it.
Very often we lose sight of the sacredness of self as that indwelt temple of God's Holy Spirit. Thinking ourselves unworthy and the like.
However, Jesus thought we were worth dying for. He thought us worthy of his sacrifice because God saw us as worthy of his grace.
We are greatly loved. Now we have to love ourselves.
Then I think we will see God's kingdom spread across the earth when we witness those in Christ who populate it.
No - this is not right!
The Kingdom of God is indeed in our midst, like the Bible records, but that is different from saying it is within our faith!! Either you don't understand what you are writing, or you are just wanting to sound spiritual and religious. As for me, I could careless whether I sound spiritual or religious; I am just trying to tell people about what I really found - which is the King, Jesus Christ, who thus has a Kingdom and that Kingdom is NOT of this world!!!
Or did you not read what Jesus told Pilate:
Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
We need to believe that it is there to access to it, because Christians believe in Jesus Christ and He is the King over the Kingdom of God, but there was and has been the Kingdom of God whether people want to believe it or not. Pilate did not believe, and every person had fallen away from Jesus Christ at that moment. Still, He said, (Jn 18:37 " If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
His Kingdom is in a different realm, and that realm is around us but is not of this world - according to what is written!!
I am not sure if Hugh Ross is really correct, but he is a Christian cosmologist (someone who studies the universe) and he has some interesting books which covers what it means to have different dimensions. With a point you don't have a dimension. With a line you have a dimensions. A graph with 2 two lines give you 2 dimensions. If you can make the graph with a line going towards you and away from you then you have 3D, as in 3 dimensions, as in a 3D movie which shows us how we see our world. With movement you add a four dimension. If you do the mathematics covering space time (the speed of light and beyond) you can add a fifth dimension. Yet apparently, when they tried to work out the math on the Big Bang theory, it seemed to work out with 10 dimensions. So we live in a physical world with 4 dimensions and can figure in a 5th dimension with space time and the speed of light, yet there seems to be 5 other dimensions somewhere. At least according to one book Hugh Ross wrote which I read. That could explain what Jesus was talking about, that there is another realm, not physical realm like we can pick up with our physical senses, but perhaps a spiritual realm that perhaps we can pick up with our spiritual senses.
I don't know if that is exactly how it works, but I pick up another realm, like Jesus explained, with my spiritual ears and eyes. I can hear words, seemingly in my heart or somewhere I can't exactly point to in the physical realm, and they come from the One I call my Lord, who claims to me Jesus Christ and has backed up what He says to me with miracles and much more.
It is not within my faith, but it does seem to find it I have to believe in the King, Jesus Christ, When I started to believe in Him, I sought Him and I found Him. Then I became aware of a spiritual realm around me, with not only Him, but also angels and demons. I found out that there was more with me than against me. I found out that He has always, even when I didn't know it, was looking over all things, which He said were created through Him. He first words to me were, "Read You Bible" but I have some to talk to Him everyday, and since I also pray like He says I should, I ask for His Kingdom to come, and He honors that request by sending angels. So I know angels also, which are of His Kingdom. And since there are also evil spirit, which we all battle with personally, I also test the spirit (see 1 Jn 4:1-3, and 1 Cor12:3) I use those tests and also I try to take thoughts captive to Him for an explanation.
So I found out that the Kingdom of God was always around my life, even when I didn't have faith. I found out that the King, like His Father, has been working to this day, whether I had faith or not!! Still, it did take some faith that it might be there before I started seeking God and thus the Kingdom of God!! But to say that Kingdom was in my faith is just wrong - It is in a realm, and has been, which is somehow in our midst (and Hugh Ross writings might have it explained correctly, that it is in dimensions around us which we don't and can't know about with our physical senses) But that and all I have found figure it to be there whether a person believes or not!!
Indeed, that has to be the case, otherwise seeking it would make no sense!!!!!! What you write does not match up with seek first the Kingdom of God, but maybe you don't realize that?
And also, it was populated before there were "Christians", as such. And from what I hear and read; it was also there before the stars!!
Gen 1: 6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters that were below the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the expanse “heaven.” And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Gen 1: 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; 15 and they shall serve as lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
I am not sure about the Big Bang Theory, but it does seem to match the Bible, in that a Bang or light coming from a single point then produced dimensions, and it seems that it might have created 10 dimensions of which 5 are physical (waters) and 5 maybe spiritual (waters) and so a separation is there between the physical and spiritual, and yet they are also expanding together. And for that to happen, you have to have at least one other dimension in which the Big Banger had to exist.
So it's existence has nothing to do with my faith, but my faith (the ides that is could be) has everything to do with my seeking it or not!!
I like the statement of belief, but do you hear Him by faith?
If so, do you understand that Jesus Christ is who you hear from when you hear from God!
And do you understand that you hear Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit speaking to your spirit?
And then does not the Holy Spirit tell you that Jesus Christ is Lord??
Then you if you hear from the Lord (Jesus Christ) as in His sheep hear His voice, is He not God who you are hearing?
Then you must understand what we read in John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
So, you understand that He who took on flesh and is known as Jesus Christ is the One who speaks to you the words of God via His Holy Spirit is God, right?
I guess I don't know about others, but there is One who talks to me via His Holy Spirit speaking to my spirit, and I believe He is Jesus Christ. So where it is written, 'that whoever believes in Him', well that is me. I believe in Him, because I hear from Him, Jesus Christ. And I see that He is Lord, even the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS, because when in His spirit I pick up not only Him but angels that serve Him which He also sends to minister to me. So I have come to know things about Him, and I know that He does and says only what His Father tells Him. I know that He does that because He understands that what the Father has to say and instruct is better than even what He can come up with, though He is the perfect image of the invisible God, and He is God because since when He speaks to me God speaks to me. When He does things God does things. The things He owns are all the things God owns. When I look to God I look to Him. All things His Father has are His, including the words of God and us, and He rules over all things though some are rebellious.
Now I don't care about religion, I care about a relationship with Him. So I don't care how religious a person looks, but I care about them actually getting to know Him, Jesus Christ. He says and does the most interesting and amazing things. I have seen legs grow out infront of me. He took me out of my body so I could see the top of my head, just so He could has me personally, "Karl, do you think I can take you anywhere I want?" I have been kissed by a greenish colored cloud that turned into the face of a lady. He has told me jokes, parable, given we words of knowledge and prophecy that I saw come to pass. He has made it snow where it does not snow just to have me quit my job and open up a Christian bookstore for Him. And I could go on and on and on about the things I have seen Him do and say.
He amazes me, but religion doesn't!!
I don't care about sounding "religious", but I suppose I sometimes do when I try to tell people about Him, Jesus Christ the Word of God, who is God!!
Now the He like to glorify His Father, so He shows us His Father but that through Him and His Holy Spirit. Yet His Father and the Holy Spirit want Him glorified! And since He only does the will of His Father, should we also not do the will of His Father and glorify Jesus Christ?
Therefore - the message of the Father which comes through the Son and the Holy Spirit is also my message - and that is concerning Jesus Christ and is goes '“This is My/His beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to Him!” (Mat 17:5) - Or as the Holy Spirit puts it, " “Jesus is Lord,” (1 Cor 12;3)
As "Christians" that is of course our message!! We preach Jesus Christ and Him the Lord and thus King over the Kingdom of God!! Yes, He will show you His Father, even if in no other way that Him doing and saying only what the Father tells Him! Never-the-less, we glorify the Son, Jesus Christ, according to the wishes of His Father. That is why we are called "Christians" - duh! And He is God, just like it is written!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
That kingdom is within the individual faithful. That's why it is spread across the earth yet we do not see it.
Very often we lose sight of the sacredness of self as that indwelt temple of God's Holy Spirit. Thinking ourselves unworthy and the like.
However, Jesus thought we were worth dying for. He thought us worthy of his sacrifice because God saw us as worthy of his grace.
We are greatly loved. Now we have to love ourselves.
Then I think we will see God's kingdom spread across the earth when we witness those in Christ who populate it.
I beg to differ and believe @Dustykitten is correct. We have been given a divine heart transplant. Ez 36:26-27.
A "divine heat transplant" has nothing to do with whether the Kingdom of God exists or not!!
It might have something to do (if that is what you want to call being born again) to whether you seek the Kingdom of God or not, but actually it is the seeking and finding that gives you the "divine heart transplant (if again that is what you want to call being sent His Holy Spirit to talk to your spirit)
I am starting to enjoy writing back and forth with you Wrangler, but you are putting the cart before the horse, or should I say your heart transplant before you seeking the Kingdom (the King and what He has).
It is not written, find and you shall seek, but rather seek and you shall find!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Thanks but I didn't say anything about not seeking the Kingdom of God.
I thought you were pivoting on it being external verses internal. Either way, we agree that it is accessible.
Oh - OkThanks but I didn't say anything about not seeking the Kingdom of God.
I thought you were pivoting on it being external verses internal. Either way, we agree that it is accessible.
It is not really internal of external - but rather it is in a different realm.
Now because it is in a different realm, it is not located in a realm of internal of external meaning. Now we hook up with in with our spirit, not our flesh, so we find it differently. That is why the Word of God (the words from the King) in our heart and even coming out our mouth. Our heart is in us, but our mouth is kind of on our outside and others can pick that up outside of them.
So is the King and His Kingdom, inside us or outside us? Neither! It is a different realm, a spiritual realm. So we pick we don't pick it up with our senses that pick up things outside us, like our physical eyes and ears, but from figuring out what our spirit is picking up. However, we can also see the effect it has on others spirts. We can see it at work in the miracles that happen. What did cause the leg to grow out in front of me.
I remember an interesting experience when I was helping in a Christian healing ministry. I had just finished leading a small group when they asked me to help with another group. A lady had come in for pray with a number of physical problems with pain. There was another perosn leading that group and that leader was doing all the praying and ministering, so I was just standing behind the lady and praying silently. While standing there I saw an angel of fairly large size come up behind the lady and in front of me. The angel looked at me for a brief moment that grabbed the lady and started shaking her.
Now you couldn't see the angel with your physical eyes, and so I was pretty sure nobody else was seeing what I was seeing with my spiritual eyes. But I was seeing the angel shaking the lady. And the lady was in fact physically shaking, and shaking, and shaking, and every person there was starting to get extremely worried. In fact, she was shaking so bad that even I was starting to get worried and think whether I should ask the Lord to stop that angel, but then she stopped shaking.
I almost felt sorry for the leader at that point, but I realized that it was going to be ok, because an angel from the Lord had done it. Then lady then start saying how much better she felt, and a happiness started coming to the group. And then the lady turn around to me, who was still standing behind her, and she asked me, "Was that an angel?" To which I just nodded and told her, yes. - But I was surprised that anyone in the Christian ministry, including her, actually knew an angel had done it. But she did know, or at least suspected, and she also apparently knew that I knew because she specifically turned around to just ask me and not anyone else, including the leader that was ministering to her.
So where exactly was the angel who was part of the Kingdom of God?
Well - I know I picked the angel up with my spiritual eyes and not my physical eyes. I know It shock her and was pretty sure the others there didn't see what I saw. Yet I saw the lady that came in for praying get shaken physically from the angel shaking her spiritually. I know the lady said she got some needed healing from that. And I know somehow that lady knew I had picked up information about the angel. Still, I guess I don't know exactly where the angel was or how it all worked, but I could see it with my spiritual eyes, and not with by physical eyes.
So, I think it was in some possible dimension, a spiritual dimension or realm that is around us - even in our midst, meaning in the midst of that ministry.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Totally deserves its own thread. I've had a few experiences with angels and wonder how many others have.
Dustykitten
Member
Luke 17:20-21 YLT,MOUNCE - And having been questioned by the - Bible Gateway
And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, `The reign of God doth not come with
www.biblegateway.com
Luke 17:20-21 YLT,MOUNCE - And having been questioned by the - Bible Gateway
And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, `The reign of God doth not come with
Luke 17:20 And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, `The reign of God doth not come with observation;
21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'
Midst/within,
ἐντός (entos)
Strong: G1787GK: G1955
improper prep., gen., inside, within, Lk. 17:21; τὸ ἐντός, the interior, inside, Mt. 23:26
It would be encouraging to have a thread on miracles and other things forum members have witnessed.
Yeah - The verses you quoted make my point!
Luke 17:20-21 YLT,MOUNCE - And having been questioned by the - Bible Gateway
And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, `The reign of God doth not come with
Luke 17:20 And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, `The reign of God doth not come with observation;
21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'
Midst/within,
ἐντός (entos)
Strong: G1787
GK: G1955
improper prep., gen., inside, within, Lk. 17:21; τὸ ἐντός, the interior, inside, Mt. 23:26
You keep thinking the faithful people in the flesh are His Kingdom, but they are flesh and blood but His Kingdom it not of this realm!!
Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
All the people there in the flesh had fallen away from Him at that time, but He was still the King over the Kingdom of God. Yet they were not there, but in another realm, so they (His Kingdom) could not fight for Him at that time. But the Kingdom still existed, even though there no individual persons who were faithful.
And even though it existed, none of the people could see it with their physical eyes, nor could "they: His servants physically punch or strike the people to be able to fight in the physical realm. Still, there was a realm, a place, not in people at that time where the Kingdom of God did exist!!!
Now you wrote:
Now let's go back to those verses, and in a language we actually speak today:
Mat 17: 20:21 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
It is a bit easier to point out the "was coming", and "in not coming" when it is read it in our language. I think you might have missed the "doth come" and " doth not come" and thus the context being referred to.
Those "Pharisees" did not have spiritual eyes to see, nor spiritual ears to hear, so they were not going to observe it coming or not coming, because we don't pick up the Kingdom of God with our physical eyes and ears!! You can't observe it that way!! You pick up the Kingdom of God, coming and going or not coming or going, with your spiritual eyes and ears, and you spirit is within you!!!
YOU MISSED THE CONTEXT OF THE CONVERSATION TAKING PLACE!!
The reason we don't see the Kingdom of God "spread across the earth" is that we don't use our spiritual eyes and ears!!
I mean - didn't John see it spread across the earth?
Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
The problem that you are having is that you keep trying to look to see the Kingdom of God in physical people!! That is why you wrote:
" I think we will see God's kingdom spread across the earth when we witness those in Christ who populate it"
That is not how John saw the Kingdom of God!!! While taken up in the Spirit He saw those angels across the four corners of earth and holding back the wind. Now John of course did not see that with his physical eyes, the Pharisees expected, and you expect to know about it in the people! That is all in this physical realm, and you have to get away from looking in the physical realm for the Kingdom of God!!!
Indeed, your thinking that way actually points to a serious problem. The problem is that not every person who appears to be the "individual faithful" has spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear!! That in fact was a problem the Pharisees had!! They would have looked to be individuals who were faithful, but Jesus told them:
“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. (Jn 8:43)
And - “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.” (Jn 8:47)
The Word of God we preach is found near us, even in our heart and mouth - so with in us - but that does not mean that Jesus as God the Son and King of Kings is not omni-present! Still, we find Him in us because His Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit and our spirit is in us, and it even effect what tends to come out our mouth.
There is a basic problem that we, even we Christian have when it comes to finding the Kingdom of God!!
And the problem is that we keep wanting to us our physical eyes, but the Kingdom of God is not of this realm!!
God is spirit, so His Kingdom is also spirit!!
Yeah - there were spirits thrown down, and so we battle with the dark spiritual forces in this world. Yet it is also pointed out in the Bible that there are more with us!!! The army of God, which is a spiritual army of heavenly hosts, is a spiritual army!!! And so there is a promise made by Jesus that we will see the angels, descending and ascending on Him. And a promise made, that if we stay beneath His covering that those angels will watch over us. And question put forth about doesn't He send angels to minister to those who will inherit salvation?
Of course He does, right? We have send His do that and fulfill those promises, right? I mean we saw that because we pray, "Thy Kingdom Come", right? So we are seeking first the Kingdom of God like told, right???
I don't thing that is completely right!!
I think it is obvious by what has been written in threads around this forum, that many are not seeing the angels who watch over them. That many are not finding out that those angels are indeed sent to minister to us. That many are thinking the Kingdom of God is found by looking to other people. Yet they say they know the King who is over the Kingdom of God - how can that be??
The Kingdom of God is in our midst, and we can't even find it???
Someone wisely suggested that we should have a thread about the angels. Yeah we should - and this is it!!!
Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
Do we not still not understand that His Kingdom is made up of His servants?? Do we still not even understand that it is not of this realm?
And we have access to that Kingdom NOW!! Because we have access to the King now!!
Jn 10:9 “I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
So did we not go through the door, Jesus Christ, and find His servants the angel which serve Him???
I wrote this thread because He asked me to. Yet I know that at least one of the reasons He asked me to was to encourage His people (you Christians posting on this Christian Forum) to go through Him, the door, and find pasture!!!
Is it not restful, when you get into that place through Him, where hear Him and see the angels who serve Him and even hear from them too?
Oh yeah, you might be able to look down on earth from a heavenly view point as be surprised at what can be seen from there.
Rev 8: 1-4 When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.
John saw the silence, and seven angels, and trumpets, and another angle, and a golden censer with incense, and had it given to him by an angel, and ...
Of course, that is John, but He too was a Christian like you, right?? Have we become a Christian, like John, and not come to know anything about the Kingdom of God and the angels who serve Him?
Now if you come to the USA, as a visitor, you are not going to see all the same things as the other visitors are you?? Of course not, but you would have seen something of our country, and thus something you can write down and share with others. But who has shared??
We really don't need another thread for sharing, this should have been it. Perhaps He will ask me to start one, or perhaps He will or even has asked someone else to start another thread and share what they saw. Still, there will always be some who refuse to seek the King who is over the Kingdom of God!!!
I tell you truly, the Lord Himself has often gotten on to me for not using my spiritual eyes and ears more!! I confess, I too tend to operate only in my flesh way too much!!! Yet I can give numerous testimonies about see and talking to angels!! I probably hear from angels more days than not, and I do hear from the King everyday called "Today", and have for over 20 years now. So be better than me! It is not hard to be, because I am at best just an average person. In fact, I am somewhat of a fool, as can be seen by the number of words I write.
Indeed, I am sooooo foolish, that I continue to think that perhaps Christians will consider and then turn and seek the Kingdom of God!
So He can tell me to write, and I do it. Perhaps? Just perhaps - someone will read this and start looking to actually go through Jesus Christ and into His Kingdom??? You can go in and out and find pasture - just like it is written!!!
And the problem is that we keep wanting to us our physical eyes, but the Kingdom of God is not of this realm!!
God is spirit, so His Kingdom is also spirit!!
Yeah - there were spirits thrown down, and so we battle with the dark spiritual forces in this world. Yet it is also pointed out in the Bible that there are more with us!!! The army of God, which is a spiritual army of heavenly hosts, is a spiritual army!!! And so there is a promise made by Jesus that we will see the angels, descending and ascending on Him. And a promise made, that if we stay beneath His covering that those angels will watch over us. And question put forth about doesn't He send angels to minister to those who will inherit salvation?
Of course He does, right? We have send His do that and fulfill those promises, right? I mean we saw that because we pray, "Thy Kingdom Come", right? So we are seeking first the Kingdom of God like told, right???
I don't thing that is completely right!!
I think it is obvious by what has been written in threads around this forum, that many are not seeing the angels who watch over them. That many are not finding out that those angels are indeed sent to minister to us. That many are thinking the Kingdom of God is found by looking to other people. Yet they say they know the King who is over the Kingdom of God - how can that be??
The Kingdom of God is in our midst, and we can't even find it???
Someone wisely suggested that we should have a thread about the angels. Yeah we should - and this is it!!!
Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
Do we not still not understand that His Kingdom is made up of His servants?? Do we still not even understand that it is not of this realm?
And we have access to that Kingdom NOW!! Because we have access to the King now!!
Jn 10:9 “I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
So did we not go through the door, Jesus Christ, and find His servants the angel which serve Him???
I wrote this thread because He asked me to. Yet I know that at least one of the reasons He asked me to was to encourage His people (you Christians posting on this Christian Forum) to go through Him, the door, and find pasture!!!
Is it not restful, when you get into that place through Him, where hear Him and see the angels who serve Him and even hear from them too?
Oh yeah, you might be able to look down on earth from a heavenly view point as be surprised at what can be seen from there.
Rev 8: 1-4 When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.
John saw the silence, and seven angels, and trumpets, and another angle, and a golden censer with incense, and had it given to him by an angel, and ...
Of course, that is John, but He too was a Christian like you, right?? Have we become a Christian, like John, and not come to know anything about the Kingdom of God and the angels who serve Him?
Now if you come to the USA, as a visitor, you are not going to see all the same things as the other visitors are you?? Of course not, but you would have seen something of our country, and thus something you can write down and share with others. But who has shared??
We really don't need another thread for sharing, this should have been it. Perhaps He will ask me to start one, or perhaps He will or even has asked someone else to start another thread and share what they saw. Still, there will always be some who refuse to seek the King who is over the Kingdom of God!!!
I tell you truly, the Lord Himself has often gotten on to me for not using my spiritual eyes and ears more!! I confess, I too tend to operate only in my flesh way too much!!! Yet I can give numerous testimonies about see and talking to angels!! I probably hear from angels more days than not, and I do hear from the King everyday called "Today", and have for over 20 years now. So be better than me! It is not hard to be, because I am at best just an average person. In fact, I am somewhat of a fool, as can be seen by the number of words I write.
Indeed, I am sooooo foolish, that I continue to think that perhaps Christians will consider and then turn and seek the Kingdom of God!
So He can tell me to write, and I do it. Perhaps? Just perhaps - someone will read this and start looking to actually go through Jesus Christ and into His Kingdom??? You can go in and out and find pasture - just like it is written!!!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
25-paragraphs?! Are you related to Aunty Jane? You’d make even her envious.
And you don’t have the basics correct. We only have physical eyes. Numerous times you’ve written AS IF we have any other kind.
WOW!
Ok - have you never ever had a dream?????
What about a vision?????
Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not fear, Abram,
So Abram see the Lord in a vision - so not with his "physical eyes" and Abram even hears the Lord talking to him: and you are making the clam that "we" only have physical eyes??
Perhaps you are right about you and about others also having not have eyes to see and hears to hear, but I hope not. And anyone can be like Abram!!
Is 6: 9-13 He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive;
Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
Their ears [dull,
And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And return and be healed.”
Then I said, “Lord, how long?” And He answered,
“Until cities are devastated and without inhabitant,
Houses are without people
And the land is utterly desolate,
“The LORD has removed men far away,
And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land.
“Yet there will be a tenth portion in it,
And it will again be subject to burning,
Like a terebinth or an oak
Whose stump remains when it is felled.
The holy seed is its stump.
I thank God for the tenth portion, because I can see with my spiritual eyes and hear with my spiritual ears! Yet for the 90% who will not actually seek the Lord and turn back to Him, you are right. With their eyes they don't see and with their ears they don't hear - so certainly they know nothing about them having them - which matches your statement. Yet I have read nothing from Aunty Jane that has suggested she uses her spiritual eyes and ears either. The Pharisees and Sadducees also argued among themselves.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Now you're changing the subject. Stay with me now. Are you talking about apples (seeing with one's eyes) or oranges (dreams or visions)?
When you say oranges but mean apples - or vice versa - it gets confusing. Thanks.
Dustykitten
Member
I don't know where you are getting oranges or apples, we are talking about having access to the Kingdom of God which not of this world or realm.
Our realm or world is a physical world. If anyone takes a physics class they wind up studying our physical realm. Early thinkers felt all things were made up of earth, water, and air. As the physicists advanced with their science we discover more and more about the physical realm. Yet Jesus explained to Pilate that He was a King but that His Kingdom was not of this realm. He explained that His words are spirit and are life and that His words comes through the Holy Spirit who gives us those words. His sheep hear His voice so we understand that He talks to us via that small voice of His, which is not sound waves, still we hear words. Those words come to our spirit, so we find the Word of God in what we call our heart, which does not mean our physical heart, and we also find His words coming out our mouth, but that obviously is because they came to our spirit via His Holy Spirit and effected our thinking so they came out our mouth, thought perhaps we didn't understand that.
And seeing with our spiritual eyes happens the same way. His Holy Spirit might give our spirit a vision or perhaps a dream. Of course the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit around, but still our Lord Jesus Christ communicates with us, and still He is the door to His Kingdom. So we find many records in the Bible where those who knew Him saw things with their spiritual eyes, and not light waves which a physicist might talk about.
Therefore, we have access to the Kingdom of God now - so we should be seeking it and finding it with our spiritual eyes and ears!
And honestly, He gets on to me for not using my spiritual eyes more! Still, I do at times and when I seek I find. I find angels about, like the time I saw a very large angel standing next to one of those large electric generating windmills that you might see nowadays. The windmill I could see with my physical eyes, but to see the angel I had to use my spiritual eyes. Then I listened for the angle and he told me, "Karl, If you want more power in your life, seek the Kingdom of God."
The holy spirit is needed to make it into kingdom of God. Its those who do will of God. Romans 11:7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeks for; but the Election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. God has closed the eyes of some people, its spirtual blindness. Those with spirit of stupor can't understand the meat of God's word. Gods Elect have holy spirit. The holy spirit guides you, keeps you on the right path. First Corinthians 2:12. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God. I documented again. Some people have spirit of slumber. They can't understand the latter rain and meat of God's word. The Election have holy spirit. Thier chosen before foundation of the world and predestined. Romans chapter 8 and first Peter chapter 1 to document the Election. Luke 9:62. And Jesus said unto him, No, man having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for kingdom of God. Its repentance and those who do will of God. The insolent and wicked will go to sheol. Its holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. I documented this. You need the holy spirit.
From my perspective I will say Yes.
Bi-curiously a born again believer is part of the Kingdom of God as it resides in the heart of the individual who is seeking for the holy city, which is heavenly while they lives which they have Jon and take care of their families and these things; putting time in with respect and honor and love to the Father, in relationship and fellowship with the Father and the Son building up one’s foundation on Christ and building up their spirit by hearing the word of God which builds up also one’s faith, in continuing to trust God and also to do the good things of God by the spirit according to his will for you in the Lord.
Considering the victory of Christ and him being the king not only of the earth, but of the heavenly Jerusalem now today, and God has everything in control.
He has sent his message and made creation clears to those who ponder at his handiwork.
Even the Old Testament prophets and the Law; were used to make God known; and then his Son and the apostles after the resurrection, and also the Spirit, which God writes his laws on the hearts and minds of those whom are his adopted in to the heavenly family of believers
That have gone ahead of you, and you also have a family of believers here on earth to remind you of these things and encourage you to continue in relationship and fellowship with the Father and the son, and to not lose hope even if you may “feel” like God is not there with you.
Trust, hope and believing are all part of faith, and the ability to reach out to him is as close to the lips, mouth, and tongue can confess.
Even the ability to speak within your body you can pray and talk to God and ask him to help you by the spirit to do what is right and the way is his will. Wonderful amazing promises offered even though struggles come about within our flesh that fight the spirit; it will be the spirit that subdues the flesh and Paul encouraged the people at colossae to put to death their earthly members (Colossians 3).
The only thing to wait for is the passing away of the flower of the glory of man which amounts to nothing (death ultimately just like as Jesus died on the cross we have to pas away; before we can become resurrected back to life). Especially without Jesus to make us right with the one whom He had sent.
Bi-curiously a born again believer is part of the Kingdom of God as it resides in the heart of the individual who is seeking for the holy city, which is heavenly while they lives which they have Jon and take care of their families and these things; putting time in with respect and honor and love to the Father, in relationship and fellowship with the Father and the Son building up one’s foundation on Christ and building up their spirit by hearing the word of God which builds up also one’s faith, in continuing to trust God and also to do the good things of God by the spirit according to his will for you in the Lord.
Considering the victory of Christ and him being the king not only of the earth, but of the heavenly Jerusalem now today, and God has everything in control.
He has sent his message and made creation clears to those who ponder at his handiwork.
Even the Old Testament prophets and the Law; were used to make God known; and then his Son and the apostles after the resurrection, and also the Spirit, which God writes his laws on the hearts and minds of those whom are his adopted in to the heavenly family of believers
That have gone ahead of you, and you also have a family of believers here on earth to remind you of these things and encourage you to continue in relationship and fellowship with the Father and the son, and to not lose hope even if you may “feel” like God is not there with you.
Trust, hope and believing are all part of faith, and the ability to reach out to him is as close to the lips, mouth, and tongue can confess.
Even the ability to speak within your body you can pray and talk to God and ask him to help you by the spirit to do what is right and the way is his will. Wonderful amazing promises offered even though struggles come about within our flesh that fight the spirit; it will be the spirit that subdues the flesh and Paul encouraged the people at colossae to put to death their earthly members (Colossians 3).
The only thing to wait for is the passing away of the flower of the glory of man which amounts to nothing (death ultimately just like as Jesus died on the cross we have to pas away; before we can become resurrected back to life). Especially without Jesus to make us right with the one whom He had sent.
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