The kingdom of God

[ATP]

Hello all, I have a question about a scripture. Do you believe 1 Cor 6:9-10 is speaking about believers or nonbelievers. I believe it's speaking about nonbelievers who are not born again, because if you take a look at verse 11 scripture makes it clear. Take a look at these phrases the Lord gives us..

1. And that is what some of you were
2. But you were
3. washed, sanctified, justified...how?
4. by believing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ

There is power to His name, when believing on His name. Verse 9-10 describe who we were as nonbelievers without salvation, thus verse 11. Verse 11 describes who we are now after salvation. The reason I put this in the debate forum is because a lot of people quote verse 9-10 and leave out verse 11. What are your thoughts.

1 Cor 6:9-11 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

- ATP

 

[Groundzero]

I don't think it's specifically referring to either. It's merely stating that anyone who does those things aforementioned will not make it into the kingdom of God.
The beautiful thing is that even if you have committed error, through Jesus' sacrifice, we can be cleansed of our old sins and make it in.

One who is saved could just as easily do the things mentioned and fall back into that category.

 

[Trekson]

Hi ATP, Your words: "There is power to His name, when believing on His name. Verse 9-10 describe who we were as nonbelievers without salvation, thus verse 11. Verse 11 describes who we are now after salvation. The reason I put this in the debate forum is because a lot of people quote verse 9-10 and leave out verse 11. What are your thoughts?"


This is well said. I believe that vs. 11 is a reminder that we, who have been sanctified by our Lord, should not look down upon those who have not found His favor yet. As the adage says, "There but for the grace of God, go I". The Westboro Baptist cult is an example of how NOT to be as believers. They have forgotten the depths from which they have risen and live in judgment of those who have yet to receive His grace. Vs. 11 is also a reminder of how grateful we should always be that God has allowed us to find favor in His eyes because of the sacrifice of His Son.

 

[ATP]

I don't think it's specifically referring to either. It's merely stating that anyone who does those things aforementioned will not make it into the kingdom of God.

Hi ZebraHug. I would have to disagree. Verse 11 separates the condition of two different people by stating, "And that is what some of you were."

One who is saved could just as easily do the things mentioned and fall back into that category.

One who is saved can fall back into that category of sin but not the condition of practicing sin. I had noticed that 1 Cor 6:9-10 mentions the word 'inherit'. This word carries a lot of weight..(1 Peter 1:4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you.) If a believer can lose his inheritance by falling back into that category, then why pen down 1 Peter 1:4.

If you go to verse 5, it also says our faith is shielded by God's power. When they mention faith, they are speaking about the faith in which you've obtained through salvation. Salvation is a one time event, sanctification on the other hand is on-going until we die. (1 Peter 1:5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.) This is what sanctification does. It leads us back into grace. (2 Tim 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.)

When I say that "the faith you've obtained through salvation", I'm referring to the name of Jesus. Scripture teaches us that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ and His name. When a nonbeliever believes in his heart that Jesus is God and Savior, we are then born again and are washed, sanctified and justified. Notice here it says, "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." The name is Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.)

- ATP

 

[Angelina]

Hello all, I have a question about a scripture. Do you believe 1 Cor 6:9-10 is speaking about believers or nonbelievers. I believe it's speaking about nonbelievers who are not born again, because if you take a look at verse 11 scripture makes it clear. Take a look at these phrases the Lord gives us..

1. And that is what some of you were
2. But you were
3. washed, sanctified, justified...how?
4. by believing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ

There is power to His name, when believing on His name. Verse 9-10 describe who we were as nonbelievers without salvation, thus verse 11. Verse 11 describes who we are now after salvation. The reason I put this in the debate forum is because a lot of people quote verse 9-10 and leave out verse 11. What are your thoughts.

1 Cor 6:9-11 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

- ATP

Hi ATP,
IMHO these passages are referring to believers. Paul is admonishing believers for their inability to judge between brothers who have a complaint against each other. Paul then questions whether there is not a man among them governed by integrity, who is wise enough to decide private grievances, disputes/quarrels between members of the brotherhood, Such complaints are rather taken before a court of law to be judged by unrighteous men. [unbelievers]. He considers this as moral loss for them because they treat each other this way and before unbelievers...

Paul then reminds them of their past participation in unrighteous living in comparison to how they are today as people who have been purified, set apart and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit of our God.

Further down this Chapter you will note that Paul goes on about food and sexual immorality and your physical body 13-18.

He is still speaking to believers when he reminds them ~

1 Corinthians 6
19 Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, Whom you have received [as a Gift] from God? You are not your own,
20 You were bought with a price [purchased with a preciousness and paid for, made His own]. So then, honor God and bring glory to Him in your body.

 

[ATP]

Hi ATP,
IMHO these passages are referring to believers.

Hi Angelina. So you believe that a born again believer will not inherit the kingdom of God if he sins?

 

[Angelina]

Hi Angelina. So you believe that a born again believer will not inherit the kingdom of God if he sins?

Hi ATP,
How does your comment relate to mine? :huh:

Your O/P was...
"I have a question about a scripture. Do you believe 1 Cor 6:9-10 is speaking about believers or nonbelievers...

My reply was...

"IMHO these passages are referring to believers....."

 

[ATP]

Hi ATP,
How does your comment relate to mine? :huh:

Your O/P was...
"I have a question about a scripture. Do you believe 1 Cor 6:9-10 is speaking about believers or nonbelievers...

My reply was...

"IMHO these passages are referring to believers....."

Inheriting the kingdom of God is in verse 9-10. I do believe verse 9-10 are speaking of nonbelievers and verse 11 is speaking of believers.

 

[Groundzero]

One who is saved can fall back into that category of sin but not the condition of practicing sin. I had noticed that 1 Cor 6:9-10 mentions the word 'inherit'. This word carries a lot of weight..(1 Peter 1:4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you.) If a believer can lose his inheritance by falling back into that category, then why pen down 1 Peter 1:4.

If you go to verse 5, it also says our faith is shielded by God's power. When they mention faith, they are speaking about the faith in which you've obtained through salvation. Salvation is a one time event, sanctification on the other hand is on-going until we die. (1 Peter 1:5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.) This is what sanctification does. It leads us back into grace. (2 Tim 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.)

When I say that "the faith you've obtained through salvation", I'm referring to the name of Jesus. Scripture teaches us that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ and His name. When a nonbeliever believes in his heart that Jesus is God and Savior, we are then born again and are washed, sanctified and justified. Notice here it says, "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." The name is Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.)

- ATP

So you believe Once Saved Always Saved? Because in the Bible, Esau sold his inheritance for some pottage . . . (Heb 12:16)

The Christian can disappear overnight and return to his former old man if he doesn't guard his heart. This is evidenced time and time again in Scripture.

I think that the term Christian is used too liberally. What would you call someone who constantly commits adultery, even if they were a professing 'christian'? They would be an adulterer. And according to the Scriptures, unable to enter the kingdom of God unless they repent. (The thing about repentance is that you DON'T go back to the state you were in)

 

[ATP]

So you believe Once Saved Always Saved? Because in the Bible, Esau sold his inheritance for some pottage . . . (Heb 12:16)

Yes I believe OSAS. Esau existed before resurrection. There was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit just yet.

The Christian can disappear overnight and return to his former old man if he doesn't guard his heart. This is evidenced time and time again in Scripture.

No it's not. A born again christian can fall from grace but never to the point where the Holy Spirit leaves their body.
The Holy Spirit leaving their body is not biblical.
The Holy Spirit doesn't leave us, rather he convicts us and teaches us.

I think that the term Christian is used too liberally. What would you call someone who constantly commits adultery, even if they were a professing 'christian'? They would be an adulterer. And according to the Scriptures, unable to enter the kingdom of God unless they repent. (The thing about repentance is that you DON'T go back to the state you were in)

Well, there are Christians, and then there are born again Christians.
There's a difference between a religious Christian and a born again Christian.
Born again is someone who has come to faith in Jesus Christ and has accepted Jesus into their hearts as their Savior.
Neither the present nor the future can separate us from God (Rom 8:38-39) / All Sins are Covered (Col 2:13-15) / An inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade (1 Peter 1:4)

- ATP

 

[Groundzero]

No it's not. A born again christian can fall from grace but never to the point where the Holy Spirit leaves their body.
The Holy Spirit leaving their body is not biblical.
The Holy Spirit doesn't leave us, rather he convicts us and teaches us.

Well, there are Christians, and then there are born again Christians.
There's a difference between a religious Christian and a born again Christian.
Born again is someone who has come to faith in Jesus Christ and has accepted Jesus into their hearts as their Savior.
Neither the present nor the future can separate us from God (Rom 8:38-39) / All Sins are Covered (Col 2:13-15) / An inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade (1 Peter 1:4)

Romans 8:38-39 actually misses one significant person - yourself. God's love is limited by one person. So I wouldn't be using that to support OSAS.

And yes, all sins have been blotted out, but have you ever blotted a piece of paper? It's very easy to mark it again . . .

Our inheritance is reserved in heaven. It's a bit useless if we sell out our opportunity to get to heaven, just as Esau had an AMAZING inheritance, but sold it.

Read again:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

Esau was used by Paul as an example of some one who was CLEAN, but they became defiled.

So what is the base for OSAS?

Here is the evidence for (what should I call it) Ongoing Salvation:
Heb 12:15 - 16 = Paul's directive is to keep watch incase we fall short of God's grace, and become dirty. Now according to Romans, we have all sinned, so we're all dirty. This individual was clean, but he became dirty - again. Esau is held up once again as an example of someone who HAD the inheritance, but gave it away.

Heb 12:1 = If we run a race, we have to finish. But can we NOT finish? Definitely. It's essential that when it comes to our walk in God, we finish or it's all for nothing.


Heb 10:38-39 = It's possible to draw back. That means that we were there once, but we're no longer there. And not just draw back - draw back to perdition/ruin/loss. That doesn't sound like salvation to me.

Gal 3:1-3 = Paul straight out told the Galatians - you can't start in the Spirit and finish in the Flesh. But that's what they were attempting to do.

2Pe 2:20-22 = This sort of says it all. Like a dog back to it's vomit. It's possible to not only return to your fallen state, but to actually fall farther than you have ever been.

2Co 13:5 = Who is a reprobate?

And so stands a brief case against OSAS.

Salvation is something that must be held onto, otherwise, the devil, as a roaring lion, will devour those who do not keep watch. (1Pe. 5:8)

 

[ATP]

Romans 8:38-39 actually misses one significant person - yourself. God's love is limited by one person. So I wouldn't be using that to support OSAS.

?

Salvation is something that must be held onto, otherwise, the devil, as a roaring lion, will devour those who do not keep watch. (1Pe. 5:8)

But that's works based salvation.
Nothing we do can keep our salvation, our works are but filthy rags
God's Grace and His finished work on the cross is what brings us home.
Works based salvation is false doctrine.
Consider these scriptures..

Isa 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

2 Tim 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

Rom 8:31-39 - More Than Conquerors

31What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;

we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Peter 1:4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,

John 10:28-30 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

 

[Groundzero]

?


But that's works based salvation.
Nothing we do can keep our salvation, our works are but filthy rags
God's Grace and His finished work on the cross is what brings us home.
Works based salvation is false doctrine.
Consider these scriptures..

Isa 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

2 Tim 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

Rom 8:31-39 - More Than Conquerors

31What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;

we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Peter 1:4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,

John 10:28-30 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

I'm still waiting for an answer to this:

Heb 12:15 - 16 = Paul's directive is to keep watch incase we fall short of God's grace, and become dirty. Now according to Romans, we have all sinned, so we're all dirty. This individual was clean, but he became dirty - again. Esau is held up once again as an example of someone who HAD the inheritance, but gave it away.

Heb 12:1 = If we run a race, we have to finish. But can we NOT finish? Definitely. It's essential that when it comes to our walk in God, we finish or it's all for nothing.


Heb 10:38-39 = It's possible to draw back. That means that we were there once, but we're no longer there. And not just draw back - draw back to perdition/ruin/loss. That doesn't sound like salvation to me.

Gal 3:1-3 = Paul straight out told the Galatians - you can't start in the Spirit and finish in the Flesh. But that's what they were attempting to do.

2Pe 2:20-22 = This sort of says it all. Like a dog back to it's vomit. It's possible to not only return to your fallen state, but to actually fall farther than you have ever been.

2Co 13:5 = Who is a reprobate?



The topic as far as I'm concerned is OSAS? And as I understand it, what this teaches is that once you are saved, it doesn't matter what you do, you'll still be saved. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And because I'm a good sport, I'll consider these verses:
Isa 64:6 - yep, agreed. Still has no impact on whether OSAS correct.

2 Tim 2:13 - And why would you use this verse? Read the one before it: verse 12b if we deny him, he also will deny us: All this verse says is that even if we DON'T believe God, it won't change who he is. He is faithful and stays the same.

Rom 8:31-39 - Why are we still on this verse? As has been said, there is ONE person who is NOT mentioned - yourself. The only person who can get between God's love and you is sadly, you. And that's because of the free will God has given us.

1 Peter 1:4 - Is this like a broken tape recorder? An inheritance can be LOST!

John 10:28-30 - And here we face the same thing as in Romans. When I state that salvation can become void, it's not because of external people/things. It's because the person himself chose another path. No one can take us out of Jesus' family. But when you line up all the other Scriptures, I would quite quickly say that we can easily disown him. 2 Tim 2:14

 

[ATP]

I'm still waiting for an answer to this:

But I'm not focusing on my works to keep me from losing my salvation. I'm rather relying on the finished work of the cross that Jesus already accomplished for me.

 

[Groundzero]

But I'm not focusing on my works to keep me from losing my salvation. I'm rather relying on the finished work of the cross that Jesus already accomplished for me.

So in other words, you don't care what Scripture says. You pick the ones you want, and throw out the rest. If OSAS is correct, then how do these verses fit in with that?

Heb 12:15 - 16 = Paul's directive is to keep watch incase we fall short of God's grace, and become dirty. Now according to Romans, we have all sinned, so we're all dirty. This individual was clean, but he became dirty - again. Esau is held up once again as an example of someone who HAD the inheritance, but gave it away.

Heb 12:1 = If we run a race, we have to finish. But can we NOT finish? Definitely. It's essential that when it comes to our walk in God, we finish or it's all for nothing.


Heb 10:38-39 = It's possible to draw back. That means that we were there once, but we're no longer there. And not just draw back - draw back to perdition/ruin/loss. That doesn't sound like salvation to me.

Gal 3:1-3 = Paul straight out told the Galatians - you can't start in the Spirit and finish in the Flesh. But that's what they were attempting to do.

2Pe 2:20-22 = This sort of says it all. Like a dog back to it's vomit. It's possible to not only return to your fallen state, but to actually fall farther than you have ever been.

2Co 13:5 = Who is a reprobate?

 

[ATP]

So in other words, you don't care what Scripture says. You pick the ones you want, and throw out the rest. If OSAS is correct, then how do these verses fit in with that?

Heb 12:15 - 16 = Paul's directive is to keep watch incase we fall short of God's grace, and become dirty. Now according to Romans, we have all sinned, so we're all dirty. This individual was clean, but he became dirty - again. Esau is held up once again as an example of someone who HAD the inheritance, but gave it away.

Heb 12:1 = If we run a race, we have to finish. But can we NOT finish? Definitely. It's essential that when it comes to our walk in God, we finish or it's all for nothing.


Heb 10:38-39 = It's possible to draw back. That means that we were there once, but we're no longer there. And not just draw back - draw back to perdition/ruin/loss. That doesn't sound like salvation to me.

Gal 3:1-3 = Paul straight out told the Galatians - you can't start in the Spirit and finish in the Flesh. But that's what they were attempting to do.

2Pe 2:20-22 = This sort of says it all. Like a dog back to it's vomit. It's possible to not only return to your fallen state, but to actually fall farther than you have ever been.

2Co 13:5 = Who is a reprobate?

Running the race is about winning or losing rewards in heaven, it has nothing to do with losing salvation.

Crown 1 - Crown Of Righteousness— Loved The Lord's Appearing - 2 Tim 4:8
Crown 2 - Incorruptible Crown— Disciplined Bodies / Self-Control - 1 Cor 9:25-27
Crown 3 - Crown Of Life— Endured Patiently Thru Trials - James 1:12, Rev 2:10
Crown 4 - Crown Of Glory— Godly Leaders Who Were Examples To Flock - 1 Pet 5:2-4
Crown 5 - Crown Of Rejoicing— Soul Winners Crown - 1 Thess 2:19, Dan 12:3

 

[Groundzero]

Running the race is about winning or losing rewards in heaven, it has nothing to do with losing salvation.

Crown 1 - Crown Of Righteousness— Loved The Lord's Appearing - 2 Tim 4:8
Crown 2 - Incorruptible Crown— Disciplined Bodies / Self-Control - 1 Cor 9:25-27
Crown 3 - Crown Of Life— Endured Patiently Thru Trials - James 1:12, Rev 2:10
Crown 4 - Crown Of Glory— Godly Leaders Who Were Examples To Flock - 1 Pet 5:2-4
Crown 5 - Crown Of Rejoicing— Soul Winners Crown - 1 Thess 2:19, Dan 12:3

Sigh. That doesn't answer the question. If it's a race, then there's a possibility that you DON'T finish. How can you be so certain that Paul wasn't referring to Salavation. Btw, there's still 5 verses here that you haven't answered - for the third time in a row. Still waiting.

Heb 12:15 - 16 = Paul's directive is to keep watch incase we fall short of God's grace, and become dirty. Now according to Romans, we have all sinned, so we're all dirty. This individual was clean, but he became dirty - again. Esau is held up once again as an example of someone who HAD the inheritance, but gave it away.

Heb 12:1 = If we run a race, we have to finish. But can we NOT finish? Definitely. It's essential that when it comes to our walk in God, we finish or it's all for nothing.


Heb 10:38-39 = It's possible to draw back. That means that we were there once, but we're no longer there. And not just draw back - draw back to perdition/ruin/loss. That doesn't sound like salvation to me.

Gal 3:1-3 = Paul straight out told the Galatians - you can't start in the Spirit and finish in the Flesh. But that's what they were attempting to do.

2Pe 2:20-22 = This sort of says it all. Like a dog back to it's vomit. It's possible to not only return to your fallen state, but to actually fall farther than you have ever been.

2Co 13:5 = Who is a reprobate?

 

[ATP]

That doesn't answer the question. If it's a race, then there's a possibility that you DON'T finish. How can you be so certain that Paul wasn't referring to Salavation.

He wasn't referring to salvation being lost. Read 1 Cor 9:24-27. Notice in verse 25 he describes a temporal crown and an eternal crown. The eternal crown he is speaking of is referring to crown#2 in post 16.

24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Heb 12:15-16 - Esau existed before resurrection. There was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit yet. The Holy Spirit's job was different before vs after resurrection. After resurrection believers are now sealed in the Holy Spirit. (Eph 1:13-14). There was no seal before resurrection. God will judge believers existing before resurrection differently at the Bema Seat. That is a fact.

Heb 12:1 - A believer not finishing the race is them simply falling into sin, prison or death. Their lives are much worse, but it doesn't affect their salvation. Coming to faith vs. running the race are apples and oranges. 1 Cor 9:24-27.

Heb 10:38-39 - Is referring to apostates. Apostates and born again christians are not the same. Apples and oranges.

Gal 3:1-3 - And if you finish in the flesh, or live by the flesh even though you're born again you will lose rewards and crowns in heaven. 1 Cor 9:24-27. There is nothing mentioned of losing one's salvation here.

2 Peter 2:20-22 - Is referring to apostates. Apostates and born again christians are not the same. Knowing the Lord vs. accepting Him as Savior is apples and oranges. Even the devil knows the Lord. Also notice that the title of 2 Peter 2 is 'False Teachers and Their Destruction'. False teachers who are not born again, wolves in sheep's clothing.

2 Co 13:5 - And it's impossible for a born again christian to become a reprobate. They are already His children and have been adopted into His family. God doesn't reject his children, rather He convicts them and teaches them the truth and the way. The Holy Spirit convicts, teaches and comforts.

- ATP

 

[Groundzero]

He wasn't referring to salvation being lost. Read 1 Cor 9:24-27. Notice in verse 25 he describes a temporal crown and an eternal crown. The eternal crown he is speaking of is referring to crown#2 in post 16.

24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Heb 12:15-16 - Esau existed before resurrection. There was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit yet. The Holy Spirit's job was different before vs after resurrection. After resurrection believers are now sealed in the Holy Spirit. (Eph 1:13-14). There was no seal before resurrection. God will judge believers existing before resurrection differently at the Bema Seat. That is a fact.

Heb 12:1 - A believer not finishing the race is them simply falling into sin, prison or death. Their lives are much worse, but it doesn't affect their salvation. Coming to faith vs. running the race are apples and oranges. 1 Cor 9:24-27.

Heb 10:38-39 - Is referring to apostates. Apostates and born again christians are not the same. Apples and oranges.

Gal 3:1-3 - And if you finish in the flesh, or live by the flesh even though you're born again you will lose rewards and crowns in heaven. 1 Cor 9:24-27. There is nothing mentioned of losing one's salvation here.

2 Peter 2:20-22 - Is referring to apostates. Apostates and born again christians are not the same. Knowing the Lord vs. accepting Him as Savior is apples and oranges. Even the devil knows the Lord. Also notice that the title of 2 Peter 2 is 'False Teachers and Their Destruction'. False teachers who are not born again, wolves in sheep's clothing.

2 Co 13:5 - And it's impossible for a born again christian to become a reprobate. They are already His children and have been adopted into His family. God doesn't reject his children, rather He convicts them and teaches them the truth and the way. The Holy Spirit convicts, teaches and comforts.

- ATP

Hmm, I would recommend reading the text thoroughly before you post it. In 1Co 9:27 No, I keep on disciplining my body, making it serve me so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not somehow be disqualified.
Paul disciplined himself so that there was no possibility of him being 'disqualified'. If OSAS is correct, why would Paul say that? For that matter, if OSAS is correct, why would Paul spend so much time correcting the churches deviant behaviour?

You didn't answer Heb 12:15-16. Paul was talking to BORN-AGAIN Christians, telling them, DON'T BE LIKE ESAU. How???? In that he sold his inheritance!

Heb 10:38-39 - You seem to have problems grasping the meaning of the English language. You can't be an apostate of Christianity unless you once were one of them.

Gal 3:1-3 - It might not directly mention losing your salvation, but it clearly states that it's impossible to start in the spirit and finish in the flesh. You have to start in the spirit, and finish in the spirit.

2 Peter 2:20-22 - You're grasping at straws here. How in the world do you classify Christians as being different? You're either a Christian or not. But if they fall back, they become apostate. This chapter teems with evidence that the false teachers ONCE were walking in the truth but LEFT it and CONDEMNED themselves! How did they get washed, only to go wallow in the mud again? How do they return to their vomit if they never left it? How do you become entangled again if you never were freed in the first place? The questions keep coming.

2 Co 13:5 - Where does Scripture say that's IMPOSSIBLE for a Christian to CHOOSE NOT to follow God? Do we have a free will or NOT? What if I decide I don't want to be saved anymore? What the heck is a reprobate then?

It really feels like you're pulling at straws here. Multiple times you've misquoted Scripture, pulled ludicrous conclusions, and failed to even consider what Scripture is saying.

If OSAS is such an airtight doctrine that concerns a person's ETERNITY, why is it so obscure? If OSAS is correct, then the spiritual warfare Paul talks of is pretty pointless. Half his letters are pointless. Jesus sacrifice on Calvary is basically pointless. The whole concept of free will is pointless.

There is ONE REASON why you would hang on so tight to OSAS. That's because it justifies your actions and gives you freedom to satisfy your flesh.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[ATP]

Hmm, I would recommend reading the text thoroughly before you post it. In 1Co 9:27 No, I keep on disciplining my body, making it serve me so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not somehow be disqualified. Paul disciplined himself so that there was no possibility of him being 'disqualified'. If OSAS is correct, why would Paul say that? For that matter, if OSAS is correct, why would Paul spend so much time correcting the churches deviant behaviour?

But you're missing the big picture here. Your timeline is off. Paul is referring to being disqualified at the Bema Seat of Christ when we receive crowns or lose crowns. The Bema Seat doesn't occur until the first resurrection after we are all dead and rise again. We can lose crowns at the Bema Seat, but we cannot lose our salvation. Crowns or no crowns, a born again christian is going to heaven. I know it's hard to understand because churches do not teach about rewards and crowns in heaven, and that's ashame. Because it's going to come to pass.

You didn't answer Heb 12:15-16. Paul was talking to BORN-AGAIN Christians, telling them, DON'T BE LIKE ESAU. How???? In that he sold his inheritance!

Do you know what I mean when I say before and after resurrection, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and being sealed in the Holy Spirit. Esau existed before resurrection, what do I mean when I say that?

Heb 10:38-39 - You seem to have problems grasping the meaning of the English language. You can't be an apostate of Christianity unless you once were one of them.

Incorrect. Not everyone who calls themselves Christians or born again.

Gal 3:1-3 - It might not directly mention losing your salvation, but it clearly states that it's impossible to start in the spirit and finish in the flesh. You have to start in the spirit, and finish in the spirit.

Yes, it is good to start in the spirit and finish in the spirit. I agree.

2 Peter 2:20-22 - You're grasping at straws here. How in the world do you classify Christians as being different? You're either a Christian or not. But if they fall back, they become apostate. This chapter teems with evidence that the false teachers ONCE were walking in the truth but LEFT it and CONDEMNED themselves! How did they get washed, only to go wallow in the mud again? How do they return to their vomit if they never left it? How do you become entangled again if you never were freed in the first place? The questions keep coming.

Incorrect. Not everyone who calls themselves Christians or born again. Even the devil knows the Lord, Zebra.

2 Co 13:5 - Where does Scripture say that's IMPOSSIBLE for a Christian to CHOOSE NOT to follow God? Do we have a free will or NOT? What if I decide I don't want to be saved anymore? What the heck is a reprobate then?

Fellowship/following vs. Relationship are two different subjects. We can stop following God, but we can never lose that relationship we have with God. You can quench the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit will never ever ever leave your body. The born again christian knows salvation is a gift. He knows that one day the Holy Spirit will convict, teach and comfort him in his trials. You're underestimating the power of the Holy Spirit and God's grace in the believer.

There is ONE REASON why you would hang on so tight to OSAS. That's because it justifies your actions and gives you freedom to satisfy your flesh.

Incorrect. A christian who lives in disobedience loses out on rewards and crowns and peace and anointing with God. Do you remember the story of Job. God allowed the devil to tempt Job. Why? To make Job stronger in his faith when he finally came to repentance. Believing in OSAS doesn't mean you're getting away with anything, rather it means I understand that it's God's grace that has the power to change me and not my filthy works. Repentance is a gift of God, not from us.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Correct. It is always a good thing to walk away from sin, but you're only repenting because repentance is a gift of God and not of your own accord. God's grace and love is why you repent, not because of anything you did yourself.

- ATP