The last hour

[Marty fox]

Well, he said, "this is the last hour," right? Well, also "it is the last hour," in other English translations, but there is no difference. The "this" and the "it is" there... <smile> ...clearly indicates that he was speaking of the present time in that day... and is also prescient to us today. So, in saying "this... (or it) "...is the last hour," John was referring to the exact same time period as the writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 1:1-2 when he writes, "in these last days (God) has spoken to us by his Son" ...notice the word "these," there" ...and is also synonymous with God's present millennium, the thousand years, that John himself speaks of in the vision given to him by Jesus in Revelation 20:1-6. With regard to Revelation 20, John is "seeing" the millennium, the thousand years, from above, from God's perspective above time, that it has already taken place. But we are in the midst of it, both in John's day and now, and Satan is bound in the sense that he is absolutely restricted from preventing the spread of the Gospel to the ends of the earth.

Grace and peace to all.

Yes we are in the thousand years

 

[amigo de christo]

None of the Disciples expected the return of Jesus to be over 2000 yrs in the future. John speaks from that perspective.

correct . in fact the true sheep of every generation would have believed it was nigh .
SO HOW COME THIS GENERATION SURELY SEEMS to beleive its not
and even says things like oh it might not be for another hundred years .
And yet THIS IS the generation that has seen the signs of the times increase the fastest in our lifetime .
But then remember
HOW MANY in Noahs days thought the end was near
HOW many in lotts days beleived it was near .
And inquity was raging and they were mocking just as it is today and just like they mock today .
OH I SEE A PATTERN ALL RIGHT .
THIS IS THE GENERATION that is seeing and shall see the very things
come to pass that all generations saw in part and beleived was nigh .
ITS PEAKING NOW . INQUITY has blossomed , the love for truth has waxed ice cold
and the love of the world has grown massive .
And as the inquity of christendom and of the world is rising fast
SO too is a solution to merge as one under what all think is love and of God
and will bring them PEACE N SAFETY .
Peace n safety .
Peace n safety . FOR WHEN THEY SHALL SAY PEACE N SAFETY , OH YEAH IT DRAWS NIGH ALL RIGHT .
SUDDEN DESTRUTION COMETH . and cometh upon them all it surely will .

 

[HappyOma]

1 John 2
18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

What did John mean by the last hour? Obviously not the end of the world.

John meant the last "hour" of the last days. He and those of His day were living in the last days (Heb. 1). The "end" spoken of in the Scriptures (e.g., Daniel's "time of the end" and Peter's "the end of all things," 1 Peter 4:7) refers to the end of the Old Covenant, Mosaic age. The writer of Hebrews wrote that that old age related to the Temple and Jerusalem was even in his day "growing old, becoming obsolete, and ready to pass away" (Heb. 8:13).

So close were they to end of those last days of the types and shadows of the old, that John noted that it was the "last hour." In a sense, then, it was the "end of the world." It was the end of their "world"--that old "world" of the Old Covenant. The end came in A. D. 70 when Herod's Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed by the Romans. The "last hour" is long behind us.

 

[HappyOma]

So are you saying that John who was inspired by the Holy Spirt was wrong?

Is the bible wrong or is there a different interpretation about what the last hour was talking about?

It is true that "None of the Disciples expected the return of Jesus to be over 2000 yrs in the future." Why would they? Their Lord and Savior and His apostles and inspired writers placed His return in their lifetime--in their generation. So close was His return to them, that John referred to it as the "last hour."

 

[HappyOma]

THIS IS THE GENERATION that is seeing and shall see the very things
come to pass that all generations saw in part and beleived was nigh .

We are NOT the "this generation." Jesus made it clear when speaking to those disciples right there with Him that He was returning to THEM in THEIR generation (Mat. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). There are approximately 20 YEs in Matthew 24:1-34. WE are NOT the YE--they were.

 

[PinSeeker]

We are NOT the "this generation." Jesus made it clear when speaking to those disciples right there with Him that He was returning to THEM in THEIR generation (Mat. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). There are approximately 20 YEs in Matthew 24:1-34. WE are NOT the YE--they were.

Disagree. "This generation" can be understood there in Matthew 24 in two different senses, in the present generation (which is strictly the sense you are seeing that in) and in a future generation. I submit to you that it is to be understood in both senses, but applied differently... it is what we call a layered prophecy; it is true both in the present and in the future, so an immediate and a distant fulfillment.

To the other issue, Jesus is with us here on earth, yes ~ He did say to His disciples and to us by extension in Matthew 28:20, "behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." But He is with us in the same way that we have been raised and are seated with Him in the heavenly places, as Paul puts it in Ephesians 2... in the Person of the Holy Spirit. He has not yet returned bodily, in person, but of course most certainly will. When the present hour is, these last days are, the millennium is over, when all of Israel, Jew and Gentile, has been saved.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

We are NOT the "this generation." Jesus made it clear when speaking to those disciples right there with Him that He was returning to THEM in THEIR generation (Mat. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). There are approximately 20 YEs in Matthew 24:1-34. WE are NOT the YE--they were.

The words of JESUS are every bit as much for us as they were for His own many years ago .
The END HOUR COMETH
and the nations will groan . The wrath OF ALL MIGHTY GOD and OF THE LAMB cometh
and all , whether jew or gentile who rejected HIM will wail .
THE HOUR draws nigh and many are now being led to THE LIE
they believe is love , loving and of GOD . but NO LIE IS OF GOD .
And they also beleive that through this lie they think is love
they can merge all religoins and attain PEACE N SAFETY .
THEY now beleive ITS THE WILL OF GOD for such a thing to merge these religoins for peace n safety .
BUT JESUS NEVER CAME to bring peace on earth
NOR WOULD HE EVER ONCE have supported such an interreligous anti christ LIE that dENIED
to them false religoins the DIRE NEED TO REPENT and BELEIVE on HIM .
BUT HERE IS WHO would do such a thing .
SATAN . cause hims desires only death .
HE desires all to remain in bondage to him and sin .
AND here is who offers up peace unto the world
and would preach such an anti christ lie to the decieved religoins and christendom .
AND BY PEACE SHALL HE DESTORY MANY . ANTI CHRIST WOULD and we darn sure have us
A TON of them anti christs EVEN WITHIN CHIRSTENDOM cloaked in wool .
And they all believe THIS IS THE WAY TO ATTAIN WORLD PEACE N SAFETY .
Ever wonder why paul said BUT WHEN THEY SHALL SAY PEACE N SAFETY
SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMETH UPON THEM . THIS people IS BEING LIED TOO
and worse many seem to love the lie . BIBLE TIME .

 

[HappyOma]

Disagree. "This generation" can be understood there in Matthew 24 in two different senses, in the present generation (which is strictly the sense you are seeing that in) and in a future generation. I submit to you that it is to be understood in both senses, but applied differently... it is what we call a layered prophecy; it is true both in the present and in the future, so an immediate and a distant fulfillment.

To the other issue, Jesus is with us here on earth, yes ~ He did say to His disciples and to us by extension in Matthew 28:20, "behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." But He is with us in the same way that we have been raised and are seated with Him in the heavenly places, as Paul puts it in Ephesians 2... in the Person of the Holy Spirit. He has not yet returned bodily, in person, but of course most certainly will. When the present hour is, these last days are, the millennium is over, when all of Israel, Jew and Gentile, has been saved.

Grace and peace to you.

PinSeeker, Jesus used the expression "this generation" 19 times. Look up the following:

We are NOT the "this generation." Jesus made it clear when speaking to those disciples right there with Him that He was returning to THEM in THEIR generation (Mat. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). There are approximately 20 YEs in Matthew 24:1-34. WE are NOT the YE--they were.

PinSeeker, Jesus used the expression "this generation" 19 times. In all of them, He meant His contemporaries. This simple expression is only confused out of necessitey by those who do not like what it means. Check out the following:

Matthew 11:16 THIS generation
Matthew 12:41 and 42 and 45 THIS generation
Matthew 23:36 THIS generation
Matthew 24:34 THIS generation
Mark 8:12 THIS generation
Mark 8:38 THIS generation
Mark 13:30 THIS generation
Luke 7:31 THIS generation
Luke 11:29 (2x) THIS wicked generation
Luke 11:30 and 31 and 32 THIS generation
Luke 11:50 and 51 THIS generation
Luke 17:25 THIS generation
Luke 21:32 THIS generation

Peter also used it in Acts 2:40 of his generation.

In light of these usages (employing the same Greek words), those who seek to make "this generation" mean something else in Matthew 24:34 MUST explain why Jesus suddenly, and without explanation, gives it a meaning He has never given it before!

He clearly meant the generation of those very disciples standing right there with Him.

Peace!

 

[HappyOma]

The words of JESUS are every bit as much for us as they were for His own many years ago .
The END HOUR COMETH
and the nations will groan . The wrath OF ALL MIGHTY GOD and OF THE LAMB cometh
and all , whether jew or gentile who rejected HIM will wail .
THE HOUR draws nigh and many are now being led to THE LIE
they believe is love , loving and of GOD . but NO LIE IS OF GOD .
And they also beleive that through this lie they think is love
they can merge all religoins and attain PEACE N SAFETY .
THEY now beleive ITS THE WILL OF GOD for such a thing to merge these religoins for peace n safety .
BUT JESUS NEVER CAME to bring peace on earth
NOR WOULD HE EVER ONCE have supported such an interreligous anti christ LIE that dENIED
to them false religoins the DIRE NEED TO REPENT and BELEIVE on HIM .
BUT HERE IS WHO would do such a thing .
SATAN . cause hims desires only death .
HE desires all to remain in bondage to him and sin .
AND here is who offers up peace unto the world
and would preach such an anti christ lie to the decieved religoins and christendom .
AND BY PEACE SHALL HE DESTORY MANY . ANTI CHRIST WOULD and we darn sure have us
A TON of them anti christs EVEN WITHIN CHIRSTENDOM cloaked in wool .
And they all believe THIS IS THE WAY TO ATTAIN WORLD PEACE N SAFETY .
Ever wonder why paul said BUT WHEN THEY SHALL SAY PEACE N SAFETY
SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMETH UPON THEM . THIS people IS BEING LIED TOO
and worse many seem to love the lie . BIBLE TIME .

I can't respond without the scriptural support for your assertions. Let's study the Word--in its context. Thanks.

 

[HappyOma]

The words of JESUS are every bit as much for us as they were for His own many years ago .
The END HOUR COMETH
and the nations will groan . The wrath OF ALL MIGHTY GOD and OF THE LAMB cometh
and all , whether jew or gentile who rejected HIM will wail .
THE HOUR draws nigh and many are now being led to THE LIE
they believe is love , loving and of GOD . but NO LIE IS OF GOD .
And they also beleive that through this lie they think is love
they can merge all religoins and attain PEACE N SAFETY .
THEY now beleive ITS THE WILL OF GOD for such a thing to merge these religoins for peace n safety .
BUT JESUS NEVER CAME to bring peace on earth
NOR WOULD HE EVER ONCE have supported such an interreligous anti christ LIE that dENIED
to them false religoins the DIRE NEED TO REPENT and BELEIVE on HIM .
BUT HERE IS WHO would do such a thing .
SATAN . cause hims desires only death .
HE desires all to remain in bondage to him and sin .
AND here is who offers up peace unto the world
and would preach such an anti christ lie to the decieved religoins and christendom .
AND BY PEACE SHALL HE DESTORY MANY . ANTI CHRIST WOULD and we darn sure have us
A TON of them anti christs EVEN WITHIN CHIRSTENDOM cloaked in wool .
And they all believe THIS IS THE WAY TO ATTAIN WORLD PEACE N SAFETY .
Ever wonder why paul said BUT WHEN THEY SHALL SAY PEACE N SAFETY
SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMETH UPON THEM . THIS people IS BEING LIED TOO
and worse many seem to love the lie . BIBLE TIME .

A child can understand the meaning of THIS. When his mother comes into his room and declares: "Look at THIS mess," he knows that she means the mess right there in front of them. It is THAT mess and THAT mess only that is in view. It's not about a mess he might make the following week. It is not about the mess the neighbor kid made. It is about HIS mess at THAT very time and location. Why do we "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel"?

 

[PinSeeker]

PinSeeker, Jesus used the expression "this generation" 19 times.

Yes, but not every one of them were used in the same context.

He clearly meant the generation of those very disciples standing right there with Him.

Which I affirmed, as opposed to denying. However, assuming you are a follower of Christ as I am, then He was speaking of us also. What he was saying there did not just have an immediate context. Certainly, it had that, but much more.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Wish-it]

Both

So what's the story with Acts 21.26

 

[ewq1938]

We are NOT the "this generation." Jesus made it clear when speaking to those disciples right there with Him that He was returning to THEM in THEIR generation (Mat. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). There are approximately 20 YEs in Matthew 24:1-34. WE are NOT the YE--they were.

They weren't because the prophecies didn't happen in their lifetimes. They would have avoided death and have been raptured if it was their generation but they all died, most murdered. In the time Christ spoke of, some of the saints will be changed to immortal and raptured and that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Marvelloustime]

The words of JESUS are every bit as much for us as they were for His own many years ago .
The END HOUR COMETH
and the nations will groan . The wrath OF ALL MIGHTY GOD and OF THE LAMB cometh
and all , whether jew or gentile who rejected HIM will wail .
THE HOUR draws nigh and many are now being led to THE LIE
they believe is love , loving and of GOD . but NO LIE IS OF GOD .
And they also beleive that through this lie they think is love
they can merge all religoins and attain PEACE N SAFETY .
THEY now beleive ITS THE WILL OF GOD for such a thing to merge these religoins for peace n safety .
BUT JESUS NEVER CAME to bring peace on earth
NOR WOULD HE EVER ONCE have supported such an interreligous anti christ LIE that dENIED
to them false religoins the DIRE NEED TO REPENT and BELEIVE on HIM .
BUT HERE IS WHO would do such a thing .
SATAN . cause hims desires only death .
HE desires all to remain in bondage to him and sin .
AND here is who offers up peace unto the world
and would preach such an anti christ lie to the decieved religoins and christendom .
AND BY PEACE SHALL HE DESTORY MANY . ANTI CHRIST WOULD and we darn sure have us
A TON of them anti christs EVEN WITHIN CHIRSTENDOM cloaked in wool .
And they all believe THIS IS THE WAY TO ATTAIN WORLD PEACE N SAFETY .
Ever wonder why paul said BUT WHEN THEY SHALL SAY PEACE N SAFETY
SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMETH UPON THEM . THIS people IS BEING LIED TOO
and worse many seem to love the lie . BIBLE TIME .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marty fox]

So what's the story with Acts 21.26

?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1 John 2
18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

What did John mean by the last hour? Obviously not the end of the world.

The same as what Peter referred to when he referred to "the last days" in Acts 2:16-21 and 2 Peter 3:3-4. The time period between the first and second coming of Christ during which the Holy Spirit would be poured out on believers, when people would call on the Lord to be saved, and scoffers would scoff at the promise of Christ's second coming.

 

[HappyOma]

Yes, but not every one of them were used in the same context.


Which I affirmed, as opposed to denying. However, assuming you are a follower of Christ as I am, then He was speaking of us also. What he was saying there did not just have an immediate context. Certainly, it had that, but much more.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I think John was speaking from a position of hope. Hoping that it was the last hour (a figure of speech for a short time) , when Jesus would return and change the world.

Do we not hold that position of hope even today ?

John's message was for believers to continue to abide in the Son, and the Father.

1John2:
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Why do you always try to change the text of scripture to fit your doctrine? He said it IS the last hour, not that he hoped it was the last hour. An "hour" does not have to refer to a short time. The Greek word hōra can refer to a point in time or a short period of time, but can also refer to an indefinite period of time. John was speaking generally of the time during which many antichrists (antichrists are those who deny Christ) would be in the world and he said they were already in the world at the time he was writing. And there still are many antichrists now because we are still in the last hour.

 

[HappyOma]

How many U. S. Civil Wars were there, PinSeeker? How many American Revolationary Wars happened? How many Second World Wars? There are only ONE of each of those--each unique with their own participants and their own battles.

There was only one THIS GENERATION who was to live through all of those things Jesus warned those disciples about. They were to hear of specific wars and rumors of wars of their day. They were to be hated and killed for His name's sake in their generation. They were to see THE Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet in THAT generation and in none other. There is only ONE abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet. THEY were to see it. There is none other. They were to hear of specific false Christs in their day. They were to recognize the signs of HIS COMING as surely as they recognized the signs of the coming of summer in the budding of the fig tree ("and all the trees" Luke 21). All of those things were to happen to THEM in THEIR generation. Jesus was clear about that.

Specific HISTORICAL events occur only once. Jesus clearly stated that He was coming back to them with His mighty angels in THEIR lifetime. He nowhere indicates that He would come to any other generation. It was a unique, never-to-be-repeated COMING in judgment against those of that day.

He was not speaking of us also.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is interesting to note that John was the last living apostle, and he wrote his last three letters as well as the Revelation, at the end of the first century. This was a good 30 years after the other letters of the NT were written.
His reference to the anti-Christs indicates that individuals who denied Jesus as the Christ, existed already, but it appears that “THE antichrist“ would arise as one major entity in the future.

The “last hour” indicates that the ‘restraining influence’ of the apostles was about to end, (2 Thess 2:6-12) and that a flood of anti-Christian teachers would take over “the church” and lead it down a dark path, once that restraint was “out of the way”. We can see where that apostasy led the Christian faith, just as Jesus himself had foretold. (Matt 13:24-30)

The sower of the “weeds” (Matt 15:7-9) was to do to the Christian faith, exactly what he did to the Jewish religion of Jesus’ day, resulting in sectarianism and divisions….only on a much larger scale. (Matt 15:7-9)
Jesus said that they were “from their father the devil”….and so are those who lead mankind astray today.

The god they worship is not the god of Jesus Christ, and the hope he gave to his disciples has been skewed to produce a false expectation…that all who follow Christ will go to heaven.

Jesus Christ is God and you deny that as a Jehovah's Witness, so no one should take anything you say seriously.

God created mankind to live on earth….he already had a large family of spirit sons in heaven, but in order for his son to bring the flawed human race back into reconciliation with their Creator, he chose some “from among mankind as firstfruits” (Rev 14:1-5) to join their king as fellow rulers and priests. (Rev 20:6) These will rule from heaven over those who are saved among mankind on earth. They are individually chosen by God, not men.…and they will all believe and teach, one truth. (1 Cor 1:10; Eph 4:4-6)

And you think that is the Jehovah's Witnesses. Wrong.

Everlasting life will be restored to the redeemed human race…..as God first intended (Rev 21:2-4)…..and as many as accepted the truth, rather than the perverted story told by the hopelessly divided churches of Christendom, who can’t see to agree on much of anything…..the “wheat” will not resemble the “weeds” at all in this “time of the end”.

You have no room to talk due to being part of the Jehovah's Witnesses cult.

Like Jesus and his first century followers, they will be a hated and reviled minority (John 15:18-21)….which is why Jesus foretold that “few” will be saved. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) “Many“ will be found in great numbers, on the wrong road, and will suffer a stinging rejection.
No one can come to the Father except through Christ….but no one can come to Christ unless he is drawn by the Father. (John 6:44; 65) God is choosing us, but “the god of this world” has “blinded the minds” of the majority who call themselves “Christians”. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

The god of this world has definitely blinded the minds of Jehovah's Witnesses like yourself. Denying that Jesus is God despite the fact that it is taught repeatedly in scripture. You can't get much more blind than that.