The last hour

[HappyOma]

They weren't because the prophecies didn't happen in their lifetimes. They would have avoided death and have been raptured if it was their generation but they all died, most murdered. In the time Christ spoke of, some of the saints will be changed to immortal and raptured and that hasn't happened yet.

You misunderstand the nature of His coming and, therefore, you stumble unnecessarily over that which is plain and clear. The resurrection of 1 Corinthians 15 and the gathering together of 1 Thessalonians 4 happened to those of THAT day. Paul included himself and his fellow believers in that event when he said "WE." WE are NOT the WE there. The resurrection is not physical bodies popping up out of the ground. Your belief that it is forces you to avoid the clear timing of those things.

 

[HappyOma]

Why do you always try to change the text of scripture to fit your doctrine? He said it IS the last hour, not that he hoped it was the last hour. An "hour" does not have to refer to a short time. The Greek word hōra can refer to a point in time or a short period of time, but can also refer to an indefinite period of time. John was speaking generally of the time during which many antichrists (antichrists are those who deny Christ) would be in the world and he said they were already in the world at the time he was writing. And there still are many antichrists now because we are still in the last hour.

We are NOT in the last hour. John clearly placed that time in his day. He told his readers "Brethren, it IS the last hour." And it was. He didn't say "a last hour"--he said THE last hour. It coincides with the timing given by James when he wrote "the coming of the Lord is AT HAND" and the judge is AT THE DOOR" (James 5:8, 9).

John referred to specific "antichrists" of his day. They were the false Christs that Jesus warned His disciples about who would come in THEIR generation. Antichrist is simply a reference to those who deny that Christ came in the flesh, so there is no limit on their appearance. The antichrists John spoke of were of his time--he was not speaking about "generally of the time." He was speaking specifically of his.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are NOT in the last hour. John clearly placed that time in his day.

It was in his day and is still going on today. You are not going to convince me to agree with your preterist beliefs, so just get that out of your head.

He told his readers "Brethren, it IS the last hour."

Yep. It was and still is the last hour. Are there not still many antichrists in the world? Yes, there are. So, it's still the last hour.

And it was. He didn't say "a last hour"--he said THE last hour. It coincides with the timing given by James when he wrote "the coming of the Lord is AT HAND" and the judge is AT THE DOOR" (James 5:8, 9).

Since no one knew the day or hour of His coming, it was always possible that it could be near, so believers were encouraged to be ready for His coming in case He came during their lifetimes. That does not mean He would come in their lifetimes. And He hasn't come yet, so there is no possibility that James was saying that Jesus's second coming was literally near when he wrote that.

John referred to specific "antichrists" of his day. They were the false Christs that Jesus warned His disciples about who would come in THEIR generation.

You can't even discern the different between antichrists and false Christs, so why should I take you seriously? An antichrist is anyone who denies Christ. That's what the verses that contain the term "antichrist" indicate. But, a false Christ is someone who is not Christ, but is claiming to be Christ. So, a false Christ is also an antichrist, but not all antichrists are false Christs.

Antichrist is simply a reference to those who deny that Christ came in the flesh, so there is no limit on their appearance.

You understand this, yet you call them false Christs. No, not all antichrists are false Christs.

The antichrists John spoke of were of his time--he was not speaking about "generally of the time." He was speaking specifically of his.

He said there were already many antichrists in the world at that time, but he did not say "the last hour" only referred to his time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You misunderstand the nature of His coming and, therefore, you stumble unnecessarily over that which is plain and clear. The resurrection of 1 Corinthians 15 and the gathering together of 1 Thessalonians 4 happened to those of THAT day.

Get out of here with this nonsense. The resurrection of the dead in Christ and gathering together to Christ has not yet happened. All of the dead in Christ and all who are alive and remain when Jesus comes in the future will be caught up to Him. He will not come until He can gather literally all who are His and ever will be His to Himself when He comes. That has not yet happened.

Paul included himself and his fellow believers in that event when he said "WE." WE are NOT the WE there.

Hello? Do you think that Paul didn't know that he would be raised from the dead and included in the "we" that includes the resurrected dead if he had died before Jesus came? Of course he knew that. So, he could say "we" because he knew he would be among those gathered to Christ no matter when it happened. He was not indicating that he knew he would still be alive at the time.

The resurrection is not physical bodies popping up out of the ground. Your belief that it is forces you to avoid the clear timing of those things.

The resurrection is a bodily resurrection of the dead and it has not yet happened. You have been duped by false preterist doctrine.

 

[HappyOma]

It was in his day and is still going on today. You are not going to convince me to agree with your preterist beliefs, so just get that out of your head.


Yep. It was and still is the last hour. Are there not still many antichrists in the world? Yes, there are. So, it's still the last hour.


Since no one knew the day or hour of His coming, it was always possible that it could be near, so believers were encouraged to be ready for His coming in case He came during their lifetimes. That does not mean He would come in their lifetimes. And He hasn't come yet, so there is no possibility that James was saying that Jesus's second coming was literally near when he wrote that.


You can't even discern the different between antichrists and false Christs, so why should I take you seriously? An antichrist is anyone who denies Christ. That's what the verses that contain the term "antichrist" indicate. But, a false Christ is someone who is not Christ, but is claiming to be Christ. So, a false Christ is also an antichrist, but not all antichrists are false Christs.


You understand this, yet you call them false Christs. No, not all antichrists are false Christs.


He said there were already many antichrists in the world at that time, but he did not say "the last hour" only referred to his time.

"He said there were already many antichrists in the world at that time, but he did not say "the last hour" only referred to his time."

John did say the last hour--John 2:18 "Brethren, it IS the LAST HOUR."

False Christs are very much the spirit of "antichrist." Jesus spoke also of "false prohets" in Matthew 24. They all denied Christ! And they all existed at the time of His return. He said so.

Spiritual Israelite: Jesus told THEM that they would see His appearing (2 Thes. 1). THEY were waiting for His COMING to THEM (1 Peter 3:12). Jesus told THEM to watch and be ready. Why? Because He had already told THEM that He was returning in THEIR generation. They knew the generation but they didn't know the day or the hour. That is why they had to be diligent to watch and be ready! He was to come to THEM as a thief, at an hour THEY did not expect. Again, THAT is why THEY were to watch and be ready.

I am not promoting "preterist beliefs." I don't even use the title. I believe in REALIZED ESCHATOLOGY. I am not trying to convince you of any eschatological position. My attempt is to have you see the plain words of Scripture and to stop putting words and thoughts into Jesus' mouth and head. When preterism teaches truth, I am in agreement. Jesus plainly told those disciples of His day that He was returning to THEM in THEIR generation. That is not preterism--that is TRUTH.

 

[HappyOma]

Get out of here with this nonsense. The resurrection of the dead in Christ and gathering together to Christ has not yet happened. All of the dead in Christ and all who are alive and remain when Jesus comes in the future will be caught up to Him. He will not come until He can gather literally all who are His and ever will be His to Himself when He comes. That has not yet happened.


Hello? Do you think that Paul didn't know that he would be raised from the dead and included in the "we" that includes the resurrected dead if he had died before Jesus came? Of course he knew that. So, he could say "we" because he knew he would be among those gathered to Christ no matter when it happened. He was not indicating that he knew he would still be alive at the time.


The resurrection is a bodily resurrection of the dead and it has not yet happened. You have been duped by false preterist doctrine.

"The resurrection of the dead in Christ and gathering together to Christ has not yet happened. All of the dead in Christ and all who are alive and remain when Jesus comes in the future will be caught up to Him. He will not come until He can gather literally all who are His and ever will be His to Himself when He comes. That has not yet happened."

And yet, the Apostle Paul included himself and those of HIS own day in that gathering together (1 Thessalonians 4). That passage is not about us. THEY were to be gathered together to Christ in THEIR day.
Where does the Bible say that all believers throughout all time had to be gathered together to Him at the same time? Nowhere.

Paul and those of HIs day were the first fruits of that resurrection. All who have believed and will believe after that time go immediately into the Kingdom at death.

Paul said: "WE who ARE ALIVE" not will be alive.

 

[HappyOma]

Get out of here with this nonsense. The resurrection of the dead in Christ and gathering together to Christ has not yet happened. All of the dead in Christ and all who are alive and remain when Jesus comes in the future will be caught up to Him. He will not come until He can gather literally all who are His and ever will be His to Himself when He comes. That has not yet happened.


Hello? Do you think that Paul didn't know that he would be raised from the dead and included in the "we" that includes the resurrected dead if he had died before Jesus came? Of course he knew that. So, he could say "we" because he knew he would be among those gathered to Christ no matter when it happened. He was not indicating that he knew he would still be alive at the time.


The resurrection is a bodily resurrection of the dead and it has not yet happened. You have been duped by false preterist doctrine.

What don't you understand about Paul's words? Let's look closely at them.

"For this we declare to you BY A WORD FROM THE LORD, that WE who ARE ALIVE, who ARE LEFT until THE COMING OF THE LORD, will not precede those who have fallen asleep." THEY would be ALIVE at His coming!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"He said there were already many antichrists in the world at that time, but he did not say "the last hour" only referred to his time."

John did say the last hour--John 2:18 "Brethren, it IS the LAST HOUR."

All that means is that the last hour had begun at that point and does not indicate one way or another how long it would last.

False Christs are very much the spirit of "antichrist."

Are you unwilling to admit that you were wrong with equating false Christs with antichrists? False Christs are those who falsely claim to be Christ but are not. Antichrists are those who deny Christ. If you can't understand something as simple as this, then I wonder what you do understand?

Spiritual Israelite: Jesus told THEM that they would see His appearing (2 Thes. 1).

What are you talking about? Where does 2 Thess 1 say that?

THEY were waiting for His COMING to THEM (1 Peter 3:12). Jesus told THEM to watch and be ready. Why? Because He had already told THEM that He was returning in THEIR generation.

No, He said He was returning in this (the same) generation that would see the things that would indicate that His coming was near. He has not yet come, buddy. You can't convince me otherwise. He most certainly has not.

They knew the generation but they didn't know the day or the hour.

You are misinterpreting what Jesus was saying about "this generation". The word translated as "this" can also mean "the same". He was referring to the same generation that He had just described that would see the things that would indicate that His coming was near.

That is why they had to be diligent to watch and be ready!

We all need to be diligent and watch and be ready. That's what Paul indicated in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-11 and what Peter indicates in 2 Peter 3:10-12. We don't know when He is coming, so we need to be ready for it whenever He does come.

He was to come to THEM as a thief, at an hour THEY did not expect. Again, THAT is why THEY were to watch and be ready.

Everyone needs to watch and be ready because we don't know the day or hour and He hasn't come yet. The type of things He said would be true before His coming are things like increased deception, wickedness and apostasy and Paul wrote about that as well in 2 Thessalonians 2. So, those are the type of things that would indicate His coming is near rather than any specific event that would occur.

I am not promoting "preterist beliefs."

Sure, you are. You are trying to say that Jesus already came. That's a preterist belief. Are you a full preterist?

I don't even use the title. I believe in REALIZED ESCHATOLOGY. I am not trying to convince you of any eschatological position. My attempt is to have you see the plain words of Scripture and to stop putting words and thoughts into Jesus' mouth and head.

I'm not doing that. You are the one who is deceived and needs to be corrected.

When preterism teaches truth, I am in agreement.

It's not teaching truth when it tries to teach that Jesus came in 70 AD.

Jesus plainly told those disciples of His day that He was returning to THEM in THEIR generation. That is not preterism--that is TRUTH.

No, it's your false understanding of what Jesus was saying.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"The resurrection of the dead in Christ and gathering together to Christ has not yet happened. All of the dead in Christ and all who are alive and remain when Jesus comes in the future will be caught up to Him. He will not come until He can gather literally all who are His and ever will be His to Himself when He comes. That has not yet happened."

And yet, the Apostle Paul included himself and those of HIS own day in that gathering together (1 Thessalonians 4). That passage is not about us. THEY were to be gathered together to Christ in THEIR day.

Nonsense. We, the church of all-time, will be gathered to Christ when He comes. Why wouldn't He want to gather all of His people from all-time at the same time? You're not even thinking here. When He comes, all of His people will be gathered to Him and then He will burn up the entire earth (2 Peter 3:10-12) with "sudden destruction" from which His enemies "will not escape" (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3).

Where does the Bible say that all believers throughout all time had to be gathered together to Him at the same time? Nowhere.

That is what it says in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. Paul referred to the dead in Christ, not just some of the dead in Christ. In 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 he said that ALL of the dead would be made alive (resurrected) and it would happen at Christ's second coming.

Paul and those of HIs day were the first fruits of that resurrection. All who have believed and will believe after that time go immediately into the Kingdom at death.

Paul said: "WE who ARE ALIVE" not will be alive.

Come on. Open your spiritual eyes. Paul was speaking of the entire church in general, so when he said "we who are alive" he was talking about those in the church who are alive at the time and he was not indicating that he knew he would be one of them who are alive at the time. Paul was saying that those of us in the church who are still alive when He comes will be caught up together with the resurrected dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air. In no way, shape or form was Paul saying he knew whether or not he would be dead or alive when Jesus came.

 

[HappyOma]

Nonsense. We, the church of all-time, will be gathered to Christ when He comes. Why wouldn't He want to gather all of His people from all-time at the same time? You're not even thinking here. When He comes, all of His people will be gathered to Him and then He will burn up the entire earth (2 Peter 3:10-12) with "sudden destruction" from which His enemies "will not escape" (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3).


That is what it says in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. Paul referred to the dead in Christ, not just some of the dead in Christ. In 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 he said that ALL of the dead would be made alive (resurrected) and it would happen at Christ's second coming.


Come on. Open your spiritual eyes. Paul was speaking of the entire church in general, so when he said "we who are alive" he was talking about those in the church who are alive at the time and he was not indicating that he knew he would be one of them who are alive at the time. Paul was saying that those of us in the church who are still alive when He comes will be caught up together with the resurrected dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air. In no way, shape or form was Paul saying he knew whether or not he would be dead or alive when Jesus came.

We cannot discuss Scripture if we will not acknowledge the true meanings of words. Jesus was clear that He was returning to those of HIS day and He did--or He lied. You cannot see it because you insist on maintaining a false understanding of the NATURE of His returen, the NATURE of the resurrection, and the NATURE of the judgment. Sadly, as a result, you pervert the words and teachings of our Lord and Savior.

I seek discussions with those who are honest concerning the Word of God and what it clearly says. A child can ascertain the true meaning of THIS generation. You cannot and will not because taking it as it plainly appears violates your preconceived ideas and paradigm. TIMING dictates NATURE. You will never find agreement between your beliefs and the timing. They are incompatible. But the timing is clear and you must reconcile your ideas with it!

Peace

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We cannot discuss Scripture if we will not acknowledge the true meanings of words.

I am doing that. You are foolishly trying to say that Jesus came in 70 AD and He absolutely did not. His coming will be accompanied by the resurrection of the dead, which did not happen in 70 AD, and His people will be gathered to Him in the air when He comes, which did not happen in 70 AD.

Jesus was clear that He was returning to those of HIS day and He did--or He lied.

No, He did not say that. This is your misunderstanding of what He said. He didn't lie. You just lack discernment.

You cannot see it because you insist on maintaining a false understanding of the NATURE of His returen, the NATURE of the resurrection, and the NATURE of the judgment.

Nonsense. The nature of the resurrection is like His resurrection, which was a bodily resurrection. Do you deny that the dead in Christ will be bodily resurrected in the future?

Sadly, as a result, you pervert the words and teachings of our Lord and Savior.

No, I do not. That would be you.

I seek discussions with those who are honest concerning the Word of God and what it clearly says.

Then you should be willing to discuss this with me. You are making false accusations against me here which does nothing to help your case.

A child can ascertain the true meaning of THIS generation.

Do you know that the same Greek word translated as "THIS" in Matthew 24:34, which is houtos, is also translated as "the same" in this verse...

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same (houtos) shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In this case the word is used to refer back to those do and teach the commandments of Christ. In Matthew 24:33-34, "this generation" refers back to the same generation that would see the things that would indicate that Christ's return is near. You think it means "this generation" as in the chronological generation that Jesus was in or the same people He was talking to, but that's not what it means.

You cannot and will not because taking it as it plainly appears violates your preconceived ideas and paradigm.

Nonsense. You have nothing to offer but false accusations. Your idea that Jesus returned in 70 AD is utter nonsense and is not taught in scripture.

TIMING dictates NATURE.

What are you talking about? Don't speak in riddles. Be specific.

You will never find agreement between your beliefs and the timing. They are incompatible. But the timing is clear and you must reconcile your ideas with it!

What is clear to me is that you have been duped by false preterist teaching and you have no idea of what you're talking about.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@soberxp thank you for posting the videos…the first one is in English but the second has only Chinese subtitles.

I can only understand our place in this Universe through the only communication that is from its Creator.…his word the Bible is my only instruction manual.

As I mentioned, for me, belief in extraterrestrials comes from the Bible itself, which explains their existence as creations of the Father, God. It tells me that they do not live in our material world but have visited here on many occasions when it was necessary for God’s instructions to be passed on to his human servants. They materialized human form for their mission, and they ate and drank and communicated, as any human would. But once their mission was completed they simply disappeared and returned to the heavenly realm….an invisible place with invisible inhabitants, from our limited material perspective.

When we understand what the Bible tells us about a rebellion in that realm, and how these rebels materialized in Noah’s day to produce a hybrid race of monstrous bullies that created an environment of absolute spiritual and moral chaos, we read about God’s response and how he dealt with them and their offspring, called the Nephilim. (Literally meaning fellers of men) They were violent and sexually depraved.
By bringing a global flood, God destroyed the children of those rebels, and forced them back to the spirit realm. In doing so he also gave us an example of what was to come in the future. (Matt 24:37-39)

We know how powerful satan is, and that he and his rebel angels are very active here on earth in these last days.
Rev 12:7-12 explains why we see a deterioration in human behavior as these days progress.

“And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”

Kicked out of heaven with a “short period of time“ (from their perspective) they are doing their utmost to deceive and to distract people so that they don’t notice how bad things really are, compared to former times when they enjoyed periods of relative peace. I remember a very different world in my childhood, where security was hardly mentioned, but now people will not allow their children out of their sight because of the threats that are out there. Women cannot walk the streets at night and murder and mayhem are commonplace. It would never have occurred to me that I would live in the world as it is now…..the weaponry and technology they have is mind boggling. I don’t think we know the half of what they possess and can unleash at a moment’s notice.

It would not surprise me what the demons are capable of doing with those whose minds are accepting of their deceptions. I got that from the video, that only certain people would be able to see or hear from these ones. Since we have the account in the Bible where Jesus was tempted by the devil, we see what power the devil displayed in transporting God’s son to the battlement of the Temple and told him to throw himself off because the angels would catch him…..or in showing him “all the kingdoms of the world in an instant of time”…..visions and dreams are common tools of the devil’s deceptions, so can we categorically state that these things depicted in the video are real…or only real to those who were open to the “evidence”.

God spoke to his servants at times telepathically, but at other times he used his angels to speak face to face with his earthly servants. (Gen ch 18) Both Daniel and Mary were visited by the angel Gabriel some 500 years apart.

There is so much we do not know about the spiritual realm, or even the material Universe where God chose this very small planet, at the edge of one galaxy among millions, to produce life…and not just life, but he created beings who were to manifest his qualities. If God doesn’t get things right here, what does that say about his creative abilities? If intelligent and advanced life already exists in the Universe, and we could have learned so much from their experience, what is the point of our miserable existence?

Can I ask what good has come of the supposed visits of these alien crafts and their occupants? What has humanity gained from them? Are we wiser and more loving? Or is the world continuing to descend into a moral morass, just as the Bible said it would? Aren’t these things simply a distraction? Where does God fit into the picture they create? He is totally missing.

Doesn’t it make more sense for God to get everything sorted here on this ‘experimental model‘ before he populates this vast Universe of which we are but a small speck? Do any of us really know what God’s future plans are?

Looking at things logically, as logic is also a natural faculty created in humankind, don’t we have to see a bigger picture to put things into their proper perspective? I will take the Bible’s explanation over any human experience because I know how the devil works….deception is his stock in trade.…but he can only deceive those who do not really know God and his plan of salvation.

If God is missing, then he was never there.…food for thought.

God has such a wonderful future planned for us, if only we would listen to him and obey his commands. (Isa 48:17-19)

 

[Hiddenthings]

“And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

Literal or symbolic?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus Christ is God and you deny that as a Jehovah's Witness, so no one should take anything you say seriously.


And you think that is the Jehovah's Witnesses. Wrong.


You have no room to talk due to being part of the Jehovah's Witnesses cult.


The god of this world has definitely blinded the minds of Jehovah's Witnesses like yourself. Denying that Jesus is God despite the fact that it is taught repeatedly in scripture. You can't get much more blind than that.

So an anti-JW rant is all you have to offer….hatred makes one blind….it’s not a nice trait. Look what happened to the disciples of Jesus….supposedly worshippers of the same God and yet Jesus called the leaders of Judaism offspring of the devil…….so, are you the one pointing fingers, not having three pointed back at yourself?
Self righteousness is no righteousness at all.

Remember 1 Corinthians 10:12….
Those mentioned in Matt 7:21-23 thought that they were faithful disciples of the “Lord”….even recounting to Jesus all the good things they did by way of excuse.…and yet, Jesus will reject them outright as those he “never knew”….we can allow him to be the judge….I don’t recall him appointing you as the judge of anyone.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Literal or symbolic?

If you cannot see the devil’s anger intensifying as these last days draw to a close, then you are blind.

He is no longer subtle….he is right in all our faces by every avenue he can think of to derail our faith, and weaken our defense against sin.
But the area of entertainment stands out among all the horrors of the physical wars and suffering as it affects the whole world, desensitizing those who are roped into movies, TV shows and computer gaming who gradually fail to be affected by gross immorality and gruesome bloody violence.

This is Satan’s world and it is crashing….physically, morally and spiritually…..no one can stop it because it is all in prophesy, so sure, it’s as though it has already taken place. We are watching the prelude to the end of Satan’s kingdom and the total takeover by the Kingdom of God, in the hands of his Christ and his anointed ones. (Dan 2:44)

 

[Hiddenthings]

If you cannot see the devil’s anger intensifying as these last days draw to a close, then you are blind.

He is no longer subtle….he is right in all our faces by every avenue he can think of to derail our faith, and weaken our defense against sin.
But the area of entertainment stands out among all the horrors of the physical wars and suffering as it affects the whole world, desensitizing those who are roped into movies, TV shows and computer gaming who gradually fail to be affected by gross immorality and gruesome bloody violence.

This is Satan’s world and it is crashing….physically, morally and spiritually…..no one can stop it because it is all in prophesy, so sure, it’s as though it has already taken place. We are watching the prelude to the end of Satan’s kingdom and the total takeover by the Kingdom of God, in the hands of his Christ and his anointed ones. (Dan 2:44)

I didn't ask for this Jane. I asked you a simple question that requires a simple answer.

Literal or symbolic?

 

[Hiddenthings]

If you cannot see the devil’s anger intensifying as these last days draw to a close, then you are blind.

We have gone over this many times Jane and we are told what will happen in the last days.

2 Timothy 3:1-2: "But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy..."

Jane, if you continue to hold on to mythological ideas and ignore the very things you've been warned about, you risk remaining in spiritual darkness.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Aunty Jane

Revelation 12 has John seeing a woman "in heaven" about to give birth to a child, whilst a dragon stands waiting, ready to consume it as
soon as it is born.

Literal or symbolic?

 

[ewq1938]

You misunderstand the nature of His coming

No I don't, you do though. The second coming changes the world and humanity forever, and that clearly has not happened. You more than just "misunderstand" the nature of his coming.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Aunty Jane

Your theory latches onto the apocalyptic phrase "war in heaven" and interprets it literally.

Am I correct?

However, if the term "heaven" is to be taken literally in verse 7, then consistency demands it be taken the same way in verse 1, where the woman is said to give birth to her son "in heaven."

Clearly, this cannot refer to the atmospheric heavens above. Instead, it must refer to the symbolic or political "heaven" on earth.

Do you understand Jane? And if so, do not shrink back in fear of the unknown but face what is to be learned head on!