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OzSpen

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The Greek word in Titus 3:10 is hairetikos, and as you can see below it literally means a schismatic (one who causes divisions), but biblically it means one who follows (and therefore promotes) false doctrines.
Strong's Concordance
hairetikos: causing division
Original Word: αἱρετικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: hairetikos
Phonetic Spelling: (hahee-ret-ee-kos')
Definition: causing division
Usage: disposed to form sects, sectarian, heretical, factious.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 141: αἱρετικός
αἱρετικός, (ή, (see αἱρέω);

2. schismatic, factious, a follower of false doctrine:Titus 3:10.

But we know from the second epistle of John that it is far more serious than that since false doctrines manifest the spirit of antichrist:
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The doctrine of Christ is comprehensive, since it not only includes the deity of Christ and the triunity of the Godhead, but it includes all Gospel truth: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Tim 3:16)

Therefore Paul says in Galatians 1 that even if an angel were to bring "another gospel" let him be anathema (accursed = damned).

In Against Heresies, Irenaeus states that the Church has a group of fundamental doctrines (as below), so those who attack or pervert these doctrines are heretics:

The Church, though dispersed through our the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: [She believes] in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father "to gather all things in one," and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, "every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess" to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send "spiritual wickednesses," and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory.
Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies / Adversus Haereses, Book 1 (Roberts-Donaldson translation)

So the difference between heresy and false teaching is whether the fundamentals of the faith are under attack.

Enoch,

Do you read and understand NT Greek's grammar and syntax? Doing a copy and paste from these sources has not shown me (I have taught NT Greek) that you understand the meaning of hairetikon in Titus 3:10.

This word is from an old adjective, based on the noun hairesis or the verb haireomai, I choose. It could be the choosing of a party/sect (Acts 5:17) or choosing of a teaching (2 Pet 2:1). Since Titus was at Crete (Tit 1:5), Paul left him there 'for there are many rebellious people, full of empty talk and deception, especially those from the circumcision party' (1:8).

There are several meanings of the noun, hairesis, in the NT: Sect, party, school of Sadducees (Ac 5:17), of Pharisees (Ac 15:5); dissension, a faction (1 Cor 11:19); destructive opinions (2 Pet 2:1) [Bauer, Arndt & Gingrich Greek-English Lexicon1957:23].

BAG gives the meaning of hairetikos in Titus 3:10 as 'factious, causing divisions, perhaps heretical' (1957:23).

The New International Dictionary of NT Theology (Kittel & Friedrich I:184) gives the meaning of hairetikos as a more technical sense of 'adherent of a heresy', found in the NT at Titus 3:9ff. The early church fathers also used the word, including Irenaeus, Against Heresies (3:3.4), The Didache (33:31; 118:33) and Polycarp.

Oz
 

OzSpen

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Okay guys and gals. Read the above. @GodsGrace is saying ppl can get to heaven by some other entrance than the Christ, who is the Door into the kingdom. She is saying thieves and robbers(context of John 10:1-2) gain entrance there by climbing in some other way. Forget the fact that the Christ said...

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”[John 14:6]

She is denying this. Flat out denying it. In her detestation of Calvinism, she has joined ranks with hyper-Calvinists, as they too, deny God uses solely the gospel to save ppl.

Yet the Christ went on to say ”If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”[John 14:7] The Christ affirmed the only Way to know the Father is to know the Son. But @GodsGrace denies this biblical truth in her diatribe as she assaults Calvinism.

SG,

Why don't you post the # where GodsGrace made the post as your link here only takes me to her Profile.

I'm not here to defend GG. However, I have not read a post where GG said that people come to salvation through faith in anybody else but Jesus. Would you please give me a post # so I can challenge her if that is what she said?

Oz
 
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SovereignGrace

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SG,

Why don't you post the # where GodsGrace made the post as your link here only takes me to her Profile.

I'm not here to defend GG. However, I have not read a post where GG said that people come to salvation through faith in anybody else but Jesus. Would you please give me a post # so I can challenge her if that is what she said?

Oz

Here you go...

Oh my goodness SG,
Are you saying that every person in the whole world that has not heard of Jesus cannot go to heaven?
 

SovereignGrace

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GG,

So, do you believe that people are saved by faith in Jesus or by faith in Jesus + faith in free will? :(

Oz

+ free will and also the gospel, but only when applicable. God saves some who have never heard of the Christ.

I can see the scene now. Many come to the Christ in the eternal state and ask, "I say there good man, who are you?"
 

OzSpen

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+ free will and also the gospel, but only when applicable. God saves some who have never heard of the Christ.

I can see the scene now. Many come to the Christ in the eternal state and ask, "I say there good man, who are you?"

Why don't you let GodsGrace tell us her theology rather than stepping in to tell us what you think she means? I find that to be presumptuous.
 

bbyrd009

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ha i dunno, if that's right then a whole lotta English Bibles wrong right? I quite saying always and never a ways back, now i'm noticing right and wrong have gone away too, i guess. Which i didn't even do that, consciously anyway
We are saved through faith.
among other things i guess, yup
And God does not impose His will on us.
guess i'm just gonna be fractious with you this am lol, He kinda does, dunnHe? It's His way or the highway, anyway, i guess?
Acceptance of His conditions:
Believe and obey.
I mean there ya go right lol. But you can call that not imposing will i guess if you like? God's will be done. Not that i disagree with you, to a point, but i see we're suddenly back to "believe" see...and i got a whole lotta believers believe they're obeying to the point of being saved and going up to heaven after they have died, with crohns, sleep apnea, diabetes, all Bc i chose to help Believers Only once upon a time...ha. We def reap what we sow i guess lol.

Something i've noticed? Not that i've been tracking this very long--like a lot of things, i mean, me being me i have like virtual spreadsheets for some pretty...arcane? (is that the right word? going with it) data--but it's recently come to my attn--or more like almost being impressed upon me really--that whenever i am working with someone with these symptoms, i am working with a Believer! Which by that i mean a Mithraist Christian Believer.

Which Roman Centurion's daughters can be raised too, right, don't get me wrong, idc what ppl believe really, was gonna say 'never have' but i guess that's not true lol.
I like Rev 3:20
I guess with him and he with Me are scribed in, i'd Read without that part fwiw
Revelation 3:20 Lexicon: 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
 

bbyrd009

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I can see the scene now. Many come to the Christ in the eternal state and ask, "I say there good man, who are you?"
hardly...very conscious, is it? You gotta know Christ has many Names, right? Christ is Spirit, yeh? Word? Maybe you are thinking about Jesus i guess. But i can't tell if you answered GGs Q or being facetious up there, in the first line. I guess that one?
 
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GodsGrace

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GG,

So, do you believe that people are saved by faith in Jesus or by faith in Jesus + faith in free will? :(

Oz
What did I say that makes you ask this??
I believe we are saved by faith only.
Ephesians 2:8
By the grace of God, through the instrument of faith.
 
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GodsGrace

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It was wicked of the Reformers to persecute and kill those who did not believe as they did, yet were true Christians. They themselves became wicked rulers or accomplices of wicked rulers.

'Totally frustrated with the Radicals [those who taught believer's baptism exclusively], the city council warned them in March, 1526, that the penalty of rebaptizing was death by drowning—the cruel irony imposed by the Reformed church and Catholic Church, as if to say, “You want to be re-baptized? Okay. Here it is, but it will be your last.” Of course, the Anabaptists refused to submit their consciences to a secular council that had usurped the prerogatives of the church. They continued preaching. Mantz was rounded up, had his hands and feet bound together and was dropped into Limmat River—the first of six Anabaptists leaders drowned in the Limmat from 1527 to 1532 (Schaff, p. 3793). Blaurock was beaten and released, only because he was not a citizen of Zurich; otherwise, he would have suffered the same treatment as Mantz. He made it to Innsbruck, was rounded up by the Catholics and burned at the stake. Grebel avoided execution by dying of the plague in the summer of 1526. Hubmaier, after a rough handling by Zwingli and a forced recantation, was released only to be burned at the stake in 1528 by the Catholics. His wife was drowned three days later (Needham, “Flowers for the Bees: the Radical Reformation” in Two Thousand Years of Christ’s Power—Part Three: Renaissance and Reformation)'

http://www.christcommunitystudycent...igious-Persecution-During-the-Reformation.pdf
Kind of reminds one of Animal Farm (Orwell) doesn't it?
 
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GodsGrace

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Okay guys and gals. Read the above. @GodsGrace is saying ppl can get to heaven by some other entrance than the Christ, who is the Door into the kingdom. She is saying thieves and robbers(context of John 10:1-2) gain entrance there by climbing in some other way. Forget the fact that the Christ said...

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”[John 14:6]

She is denying this. Flat out denying it. In her detestation of Calvinism, she has joined ranks with hyper-Calvinists, as they too, deny God uses solely the gospel to save ppl.

Yet the Christ went on to say ”If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”[John 14:7] The Christ affirmed the only Way to know the Father is to know the Son. But @GodsGrace denies this biblical truth in her diatribe as she assaults Calvinism.
Are you aware of the fact that the bible did not always exist?
Of the fact that not everyone in the world has heard of Jesus --- or God for that matter,,,,and yet they know the presence of God.

Did the history of the world begin in the year 400 AD or so, when the bible was put together?
 
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GodsGrace

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But he doesn't hate David, he has a hate for a brother named John Calvin. That, mixed with slander. In fact, he holds disdain for all the Reformed and has set himself up as judge and executioner.
Sounds like hate is in your heart and also that of @SovereignGrace ....

Why is the word HATE always coming into your posts?
God said to think on lovely things.

Philippians 4:8

Because one dislikes a doctrine does not mean he hates those that espouse it.
As far as I'm concerned, I like to post here to represent the true God and to hopefully make you think about how the bible represents Him.
 
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GodsGrace

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SG,

Why don't you post the # where GodsGrace made the post as your link here only takes me to her Profile.

I'm not here to defend GG. However, I have not read a post where GG said that people come to salvation through faith in anybody else but Jesus. Would you please give me a post # so I can challenge her if that is what she said?

Oz
Hi Oz,

No need to challenge me.
@SovereignGrace doesn't seem to understand that there was a time when the bible was not written...
A time when Jesus had not been born yet to reveal God's final plan of salvation to us...

I was discussing Romans 1:19-20 and how men have always been aware of God in nature and in all the creation. Men have always had the opportunity to believe in God or not believe in God.

If a person's spirit is in tune with God's spirit, then that person has faith in God and faith is what's necessary to be saved.


Even before the bible...
Even before Jesus....

This was my point.
I mentioned the American Indian and the reply was that they believed in the great spirit. Well, the Great Spirit was God.

They did not have access to either the bible or someone to preach the gospel.
And yet...they knew about God Almighty.
 
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GodsGrace

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+ free will and also the gospel, but only when applicable. God saves some who have never heard of the Christ.

I can see the scene now. Many come to the Christ in the eternal state and ask, "I say there good man, who are you?"
You don't seem to understand what I believe.
You should make an effort to grasp concepts...
They're also in the bible BTW.
Read it from cover to cover all on your very own and then
come back and report IF we have free will. IF God loves everyone or just
a select few as your church teaches...and HOW one can be saved.
 
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GodsGrace

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ha i dunno, if that's right then a whole lotta English Bibles wrong right? I quite saying always and never a ways back, now i'm noticing right and wrong have gone away too, i guess. Which i didn't even do that, consciously anyway
among other things i guess, yup
guess i'm just gonna be fractious with you this am lol, He kinda does, dunnHe? It's His way or the highway, anyway, i guess?
I agree. Saying ALWAYS and NEVER is dangerous and I also was taught never to say these two words...but I must have had a good reason...can't remember!
And yes, RIGHT and WRONG have also gone away.
Morality is now subjective...to the person that believes whatever they wish to believe.

However, I still believe in objective morality. Even if this does bother my conscience more when I fail...but I know it's correct. God's morality is objective.


I mean there ya go right lol. But you can call that not imposing will i guess if you like? God's will be done. Not that i disagree with you, to a point, but i see we're suddenly back to "believe" see...and i got a whole lotta believers believe they're obeying to the point of being saved and going up to heaven after they have died, with crohns, sleep apnea, diabetes, all Bc i chose to help Believers Only once upon a time...ha. We def reap what we sow i guess lol.
Yes,,and as a secular person might say:
What goes around, comes around.
1. Believing AFTER salvation will have to be accompanied by obedience.
2. We try to do God's WILL, that does not take away OUR WILL because we do have FREE WILL....agreed? I'm speaking of libertarian free will.
Not the free will that would allow us to fly if we wanted to.
I'm am in theology...not philosophy.

Something i've noticed? Not that i've been tracking this very long--like a lot of things, i mean, me being me i have like virtual spreadsheets for some pretty...arcane? (is that the right word? going with it) data--but it's recently come to my attn--or more like almost being impressed upon me really--that whenever i am working with someone with these symptoms, i am working with a Believer! Which by that i mean a Mithraist Christian Believer.
What's Mithraist?
You mean every believer has symptoms of stress?

Which Roman Centurion's daughters can be raised too, right, don't get me wrong, idc what ppl believe really, was gonna say 'never have' but i guess that's not true lol.
I guess with him and he with Me are scribed in, i'd Read without that part fwiw
Revelation 3:20 Lexicon: 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
The Roman Centurian.
Great point.
Jesus had not died yet.
 
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Nancy

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I don't know why everyone is against John Calvin.\
It's like he hurt everyone somehow and now everyone wants to get even.

Give the guy a break, he is/was a church leader.
That's more than we can say for most of us.

I'm starting a "I Like Jack" campaign.
Anyone with me?
Hi Rollo,
I don't think it is so much that anyone "hates" John Calvin, just what he stood for and thought it right in his own eyes to have people burnt at the stake for heresy. His teaching on predestination is the target here, not the man himself as there were others just like him. Rather than preach the Gospel Truth to these so called "heretics" (any who disagreed with his take on the bible) he preferred to have them burnt at the stake. Hmmm...very Christ like eh?
 
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