This is simply hilarious. You had to change "John" to "Jack" to make Calvin palatable. Why not an "I like Jack in the Box" campaign?
The Latest on Calvin
- Thread starter Rollo Tamasi
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Then it should all stay with God, not Calvin and his cohorts.
FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD
God just loved a few chosen persons
THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
hmmm. why did Jesus have to die if anyway God was going to save those HE wanted to save?
THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM
that only those that God hand picked to believe in Him (and by force)
SHOULD NOT PERISH
only those God chooses will not perish
BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE
yeah. Lucky them. Everybody else gets to go to the hot place.
And through no fault of their own.
And this everlasting life includes quality of life....
but not for everybody because God is not just.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Those who have a hatred for predestination and the fact God elects those whom he wills to save hate John Calvin. Most believe he came up with this teaching on his own. Nope, it's actually biblical.
He took lives and even tortured people that didn't agree with him.
But we shouldn't concentrate on him...many religious persons did horrible things to other humans throughout history....
We should really concentrate on what he taught that actually changes the nature of God. And why some today are believing this theology.
He helped to cause the death by burning of a physician named Servetus because he did not believe in the Trinity and Calvin opposed him...Calvin supplied proof to the inquisition and S was sentenced to death.
There's a lot of into on the net.
https://www.biography.com/religious-figure/john-calvin
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
The Institutes has some 1800 pages iirc. Please elaborate on your "pull the rug out" statement and share the text of this, where it is found, actual quotation or something to substantiate the above. I ask so others as myself can determine the context and validity of the above dig at John Calvin. I want to know what was really said.
If it's biblical, maybe you'd like to quote some scripture?
Saying it's biblical does not make it so.
Your theology claims man has no free will.
Could you post some scripture that shows this?
Could you comment on Philemon 1:14?
Paul clearly states that he wishes P to use his own FREE WILL.
14but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
No one is saved via choosing themselves into Christ. Scripture literally denies this in several places. In fact, no one can do it.
1 Corinthians 1:26-31. Can you point to where Paul said they chose themselves into Christ? Well, you can't, because God does all that or exactly zero persons would ever be saved.
Are you referring to the fact that he did not bring up the topic of predestination until his Third Book of his Institutes? (there were four total)
Yes. It does state that. And I will look for it.
In the meantime, for those who are not familiar with Calvin's teachings:
The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny….By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death (Institutes of the Christian Religion 3.21.5).
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
I'll get to your questions later on, I've asked you some before your above.
For the record, you are misrepresenting me above in your free will statements.
As to Philemon 1:14. You're really using that as an argument to prove persons will themselves into heaven? That's not even close to the context or intent. Also, that free will term is a poor translation. It literally means do it willingly, it is not a valid argument that humans have free will and flex it to get into heaven.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with what he says, yet there are several "..." in there. I don't judge God as unfair for exercising justice on some and mercy on others. Some do, I don't as he is always righteous in his acts. That doesn't mean humans need to determine (judge) whether he's fair or not. Romans 9:20 comes to mind here.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Hey Rollo! Was wondering about you and GodsGrace the other day, since I hadn't seen either one of you in awhile. And here you are! Looks like you're still in cahoots with her.. you know, good cop/bad cop, and all that.
So tell me: Do you really like Jack, or are you secretly working for the other side? 
P.S. I stopped posting images. It got redundant, and I never got many likes out of it anyway.
Its interesting how, reading on from this quote, Calvin mentions a few places where God says He chose the fathers, and their seed. Not Abraham, and Abraham's seed, but the fathers, must be the patriarchs I imagine, and their offspring, those who later died in the wilderness for the most part.
Much love!
He did have a man named Michael Servetus burned at the stake for heresy. He was no dummy, but he was not a nice man either. And whether or not this Servetus guy was indeed an heretic, what gives anyone the right to murder them??
- “On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician, burned at the stake just outside of Geneva for his doctrinal heresies!”
- “He was seized the day after his arrival, condemned as a heretic when he refused to recant, and burned in 1553 with the apparent tacit approval of Calvin.” [Do note that this is taken from the same article as the first quote. I’m not sure how the author reconciles his assertion that Calvin had Servetus burned at the stake with his second assertion that Calvin merely gave tacit approval!]
- “Calvin had him [Servetus] arrested as a heretic. Convicted and burned to death.”
- “Calvin killed Servetus because he disagreed with him.”
The Servetus Problem - Tim Challies
Why would Paul have to say it?
Jesus said it:
John 3:17-21
17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
1. The world means the world...every person in the world.
2. The world could be saved by Jesus. He came here for EVERYONE.
3. The condition is that the person has to believe in Jesus and they will not be judge.
4. The person that will not believe in Him is already judged because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
5. The light has come into the world, but MEN loved darkness.
6. Everyone who loves evil hates the light.
7. But he who practices the truth comes to the light.
Now why would God predestinate persons to love the evil and hate the light and then instruct Jesus to complain about what He, God Father, predestinated?
You understand a difference between:
DO IT WILLINGLY
and
OF YOUR FREE WILL
??
What's the difference?
If I'm doing something WILLINGLY,
I am doing it of my own free will.
From Adam through to Revelation, man has had free will.
Did Adam have a choice to eat the fruit?
Choice is a connotation of free will. If I have a choice, I have the free will to choose between two choices --- moral, in the bible.
God made covenants with man...
Blessings if they obeyed
Curses if they did not.
Deuteronomy 30:19
19“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
Is that free will?
The bible says He's fair.
It states that God is just.
Romans 3:26
And Romans 3:28 tell us that man is justified by faith.
We are saved by God's grace THROUGH the instrument of faith...
Gods' grace falls on all -- it rains on the just and the unjust,
but not all accept God's grace.
Those that accept are saved.
very late here.
Tomorrow....
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