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Featured 'The Letter Killeth' (2 Corinthians 3:6)

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by charity, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament (covenant);
    not of the letter, but of the spirit:
    for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    .. But if the ministration of death,
    .... written and engraven in stones,
    was glorious,
    so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses
    for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?'

    (2 Corinthians 3:6-8)

    Hello there,

    The words, ' ... the letter killeth ... ' are used very often to undermine and discredit the word of God: but when looked at within it's context, it so obviously applies to the law received and administered by Moses, and not to the written word of God.

    The contrast being between 'the ministration of death' in the law, and 'the ministration' of life (or 'of the spirit') in the gospel: using the words, 'letter' and 'spirit' to represent law and gospel respectively.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  2. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris!
    I have noticed folks discrediting God's Word using this too. And the contrast between the two is pretty glaring. Since man could never follow the whole law, Jesus did it. Christ has worked His Spirit into us so, our desire should be to follow what is said in the 10 until it is natural as can be. :)
     
  3. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord,
    .. so walk ye in Him:
    .... Rooted and built up in Him,
    ...... and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught,
    ........ abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
    .. after the tradition of men,
    .... after the rudiments of the world,
    ...... and not after Christ.
    For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    .. And ye are complete in Him,
    ... Which is the head of all principality and power:... '

    (Colossians 2:6-10)

    Hello Nancy,

    No believer would seriously want to live in a manner which would not be in accord with God's known will, would they? Yet the law was given to Israel to be kept as part of the covenant made between God and Israel at Sinai, and has no place in regard to ourselves, who live not according to the law, but by His Spirit.

    * For the fullness of the godhead bodily dwelleth in our Lord, and we are 'complete' in Him.

    Praise God!

    Thank you
    With love in Christ Jesus
    our risen and glorified
    Saviour, Lord and Head.

    Chris
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This chapter contrasts the Old Covenant with the New Covenant. So in what sense did the Old Covenant pass a death sentence on all? It was in the sense that since all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, all are guilty before God. And the wages of sin is death.

    When a sinner sees or hears the Ten Commandments, that person realizes that they are guilty of breaking at least one (if not all) those commandments, and are under a sentence of death. And that brings them to their need for a Savior.
     
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  5. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Enoch111,

    You must take this up with the writer of 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, for they are his words, and not mine. As the Apostle of Christ, then they are also the words of the risen Christ, spoken by Paul, so it is with Him that you must enquire. For it is He which speaks of the law given at Sinai as, 'the ministration of death'. It is called such because it held no hope of achievement, for if man failed in one he failed in all. That is why Paul said 'when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died', in Romans 7:9,

    What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid.
    Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law:
    for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.
    For without the law sin was dead.

    For I was alive without the law once:
    but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

    And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
    For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
    Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
    Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
    But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good;
    that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
    For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.'

    (Rom 7:7-14)

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Hi charity, good topic, not saying that any are right or wrong, but consider this. what is the real meaning, "that the letter killith?" the letter have never killed anyone, it's they who kill their own selves. what do we mean? just as a gun, it have never killed anyone, it's the person who is handling the Gun that kills. just as they who handly the word of God incorrectly kills. men come up with their own rules, regulations and interpertation and "pierce" themselves through their own hearts. example, Luke 2:33 "And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
    Luke 2:34 "And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;"
    Luke 2:35 "(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."

    1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." BINGO.

    see, we're our own villain, our EVIL HEARTS, we kill our ownselves because of the EVIL in us, which is not yet SIN, but worketh to Sin, which it wages are "DEATH".

    PICJAG.
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  7. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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  8. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed those who would corrupt the word of God by taking things out of context. For instance, using Romans 4 as a stand alone chapter out of the 8 chapter teaching (chapters 1-8). We are not under the law. That's all they see, and then preach we can do what we want and still go to heaven.
     
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  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Something that was pointed out to me recently,

    Paul speaks of coveting.

    Acts 7
    8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
    9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.
    10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

    Saul of Tarsus, a Pharisee of Pharisees, trained under Gamalial, even able to get letters of authority from the Sanhedrin, was of course from Asia. It's a pretty good guess that Paul was in this synagogue.

    For all his advancement in knowledge and discipline, he was no match for Stephen, an Hellenist Jew who preached Jesus and worked signs and wonders.

    And Paul mentions it was coveting that really got him!

    Much love!
     
  10. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @marks,

    I don't think we can compare one with the other: for God's purpose for Stephen was different to that of Paul, and God confirmed the ministry of Paul with the miraculous, as He had with Stephen. Also, these works were of God, and not of either man.

    Yes, in Romans 7:7 Paul uses the example of coveting, to show the effect the law had upon himself, in order to show how sin took occasion through the law to activate the lust of coveting within himself, 'for without the law sin was dead'.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris

     
  11. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @CharismaticLady,

    I have not heard Romans 4 used in this way myself, but if that is so it is a misuse of Scripture.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    The idea I took away from this, it was a sermon I heard on the radio, I don't remember who, that spoke of the possibility of the unregenerate Saul disputing with Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit. And how nothing in Saul's arsenal, with all his learning and disciple, compared to Stephen's faith and power in the Spirit. Speculation, but I found it interesting.

    Yes, Paul would go on to know his ministry also.

    Much love!
     
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  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris,

    I was reading over this passage last night and it occurred to me to connect this with

    upload_2020-9-11_16-29-2.png

    Ideal stewards, that is, oikonomoi, the house-lawyer, more to the point, the one set over to manage.

    Each according as he has obtained Charisma into yourselves, through serving it as ideal stewards of varied Charitos of God.

    What is "written in our hearts" as believers is that we've been given Jesus, and He has given us charisma, and we give that to others.

    Not that the law is written into us so we serve an impersonal code or rule of law, rather, Christ's life is written into us, as we serve a risen savior.

    Thoughts?

    Much love!
     
  14. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'As every man hath received the gift,
    even so minister the same one to another,
    as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.'

    (1 Peter 4:10)

    Hi @marks,

    There is no reason for us to consider these words, 'written in our hearts', for they were never written to the members of the church which is the Body of Christ. Peter an Apostle to the circumcision addressed:-

    'Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers
    scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
    Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
    through sanctification of the Spirit,
    unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
    Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.'

    (1 Peter 1:1)

    * See 1 Peter 2:9-12, and Hebrews 11:13 ('strangers and pilgrims')

    * These are the believing remnant of Israel, scattered among the nations, strangers and pilgrims, along with gentile believers who were grafted in to Israel's olive tree, in the attempt to cause the nation to emulate their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, out of jealousy (Romans 11:11; Romans 10:19-21).

    * These comprise the Bride of the Lamb, who join the saints of the Old Testament mentioned in Hebrews 11, as those who died in faith not having received the promises, and look for a city whose builder and maker is God. Many like them, also paid the ultimate sacrifice for their faith in Christ as their Messiah and King, their Saviour and Lord, being martyred for their faith in Him, like Stephen, and Peter for example. All looked for Christ's coming.

    * However, Paul had received and embraced the revelation concerning the calling associated with the church which is the Body of Christ, shared it's hope which is far above all heavens in Christ Jesus: and lived looking for His appearing in glory, when He too, along with all the members of the Body of Christ, will appear with Him there, prior to His coming (Colossians 3:4). He also paid the ultimate sacrifice, as the Apostle to the Gentiles, Steward of the mystery and the unsearchable riches of Christ. (Ephesians 3:6-11)

    Praise God!

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  15. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris,
    I surely didn't mean we live by the Hebrew law, as we were never even invited to that covenant, but we're under grace, yes. I do not look at "The Letter of The Law" as Judaism does. But, when I remember Jesus saying to follow the 2 He gave and the rest hangs on those two...I can only think of the 10C.

    God Bless you and yours!
    Nancy
     
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  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    HI @Nancy, and @charity, and @CharismaticLady,

    not saying that any of you are right or wrong, but consider this.

    Philippians 3:9 "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"

    read that verse several times. and here is the revelation. the Law, the 10 commandments was "GIVEN" unto man, .... right, written in stone. and by your obeying these Laws one is righteous with God... correct, well if one was broken then there was orther rules and regulations to instruct you to make the correction so that one can maintain that righteousness with God, correct.

    now listen to what the apostle said, Philippians 3:9 "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law". STOP, he has a righteousness which is not of the Law. see, before his righteousness was that he had to "DO" something ... "WORK" at it. WHY? because it was "given" unto him. now this, "but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:" notice, his righteousness now is not by working at the Law, but by FAITH in the one who have rested from all "WORK".

    what is the apostle Paul telling us by the Holy Ghost? or "Work is not toward God to maintain a righteousness with HIM, for he have made peace with him once and for all. our work is to believe that the works toward God is "DONE" in Christ, so now we have PEACE WITH GOD. so what are we to do? well Nancy said it, listen to what she said, "when I remember Jesus saying to follow the 2 He gave and the rest hangs on those two...I can only think of the 10C". the key word there is, "remember", ..... the 10c, but not do them for they have already been. just as with the sabbath, we're to remember it. it is the TWO as Nancy said that we do, so what are they.

    2 John 1:5 "And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another."

    John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

    John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."

    Ephesians 5:2 "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour." (that ended all sacrifices)

    Now I know by now, one must be saying where is that first command, just hold your horses, keep your britches on. here it is

    1 John 4:21 "And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also." First Love God, second Love one another, lets make sure,
    Matthew 22:34 "But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together."Matthew 22:35 "Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,"Matthew 22:36 "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?"Matthew 22:37 "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."Matthew 22:38 "This is the first and great commandment."Matthew 22:39 "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

    Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

    ok, Lord Jesus, that sound good, but.... is there not work we must do just as in the Law, YES, .... "TO "BELIEVE", by ..... FAITH in Christ Jesus.
    what are you saying 101G? ok let me explain, what is faith? answer, Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

    our hope in walking with God in righteousness is not based on me doing any works for God, for my work is done in Christ Jesus todard God, but my in God is toward my fellow man.

    see the 10C was given in stone unto us... correct, well what is given unto today? that's right the Spirit, "WRITTEN IN OUR HEARTS". other Words CHRIST the "hope" of Glory. remember Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

    see we overcome in keeping the commandment of God by "FAITH" in Christ Jesus. listen, Hope sets the Goal, FAITH, the "WORK" of Christ goes and gets it, or accomplish it. that's why, Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

    so the bottom line, in the OT the Law was given to man to manitain. hence "YOUR" righteousness, based on what YOU did, which always failed, but helped us.

    Now, the NT, God himself, "the Spirit, the Holy Spirit" was given unto us, as the apostle said, "not having mine own righteousnes". see the difference now, not my own righteousnes, but his. 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"

    see as the apostle Peter, and Paul, pointed out none of the Jews keep the law, for none are righteious, no not ONE. now listen to the apostle Peter, concering circumcision, and he is going to tell you just what I have told you. listen,

    Acts 15:5 "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."Acts 15:6 "And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter."Acts 15:7 "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."Acts 15:8 "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"Acts 15:9 "And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."Acts 15:10 "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"Acts 15:11 "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

    there it is, verse 8, WHAT IS WRITTEN IN OURS HEARTS IS THE SPIRIT, THE HOLY GHOST. note, just the 10 was written in stone, the Holy Ghost is set, or written in stone in our hearts, meaning by the Spirit, meaning that he cannot be erased from our hearts. BINGO.

    now verse 10, what did Peter say by the Holy Ghost? . "which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" BINGO again.

    and now the GRAND Revelation, verse 11, "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they." THERE IT IS, no Jew have anything on any gentile, nor a gentile on a Jew.

    but here's the KEY that Peter Got and now we also have, GOD, the Holy Ghost, listen, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

    that's those two command that come from, ..... LOVE. a. mercy, and b. humble oneself.


    so read Philippians 3:9 again, and see what's written in our HEARTS which is "LOVE", God himself, not the Law, but God, who is LOVE. he shows our righteousness in HIM, by other seeing him in us by the expression of LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER, list to the Spirit, "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"

    there it is, "BY GOD". Paul said it best, 1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, (GOD, for GOD is LOVE), I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, (GOD), I am nothing."

    Charity... is GOD, who is LOVE.

    so Nancy you're on point. as the rest. May God bless.


    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  17. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Wow, awesome. And thanks!
    Be a doer! :D

    Romans 2:14-15

    14 "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
    15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,"

    "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law..." <--- would these be born again "Gentiles"? And, if not then, are their consciences to be somehow connected to salvation? I am thinking not, I
    just wonder what you think about these verses. :)
     
  18. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    One thing to consider is there is a difference in having the faith OF Christ vs. faith IN Christ. If we have the faith OF Christ we can do the same things He did and also be as sinless, because He gives us His Own Spirit to dwell inside of us.
     
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  19. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    GINOLJC, to all.
    Nancy, on point, yes, it is God, the Holy Spirit, JESUS in your HEART, listen, John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." it is God in us, the HOPE of Glory. and the Gentiles have the Spirit in their hearts as any Jew. the apostle Peter found that out. listen, Acts 10:34 "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"Acts 10:35 "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

    now here it is, Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."Acts 10:46 "For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,"Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"Acts 10:48 "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."

    we suggest one re-read act 10 and get the full benefit of what is being said there. but the whole book is worth your reading at your leisure.

    one other Thing we would like to add. under the command of the Lord Jesus, when one fail to do right, there is no need to go and slay a lamb, or a turtle dove, or bullock..... no, this is what one do if they fall short, or sin... 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." THIS IS HOW ONE MAINTAIN THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS IN CHRIST TOWARD GOD AND MAN... BY CONFESSING..... MEANING ASK FOR FORGIVNESS. why is this so important. scripture, Matthew 6:14 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:" BINGO, this is what Micah 6:8 is saying, "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

    if Christians can just get this in our hearts, BINGO, we then can rest in Christ. if we don't forgive .... LOVE MERCY, well don't look for any yourself.
    Matthew 18:35 "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." one might would like to read, "the parable of the king that took account of his servants", Matthew 18:23-35.

    May God bless,

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  20. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply 101 :)
     
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