The lies about gen 6

[Ronald Nolette]

The word for lucifer isn’t a proper name. It’s describing the King of Babylon’s authority.

Wrong! Read it in context for a refreshing change. It refers to an entity that rebelled against god in heaven and that was not the King of Babylon.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Name me the Babylonian human king who fell from heaven.

 

[RLT63]

Wrong! Read it in context for a refreshing change. It refers to an entity that rebelled against god in heaven and that was not the King of Babylon.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Name me the Babylonian human king who fell from heaven.

I agree

 

[Ronald Nolette]

None of the verses show the change you claim. All you can show is that angels look human which they do. There is no change of bodies or taking on human form because they have a form that looks human already.

And the verse that syas what you just said is????

Genesis 18
King James Version

18 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Genesis 19:5
King James Version

5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.


Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

YOU need to show that angels when they come to earth cannot have sex! You need to givwe a verse that says angels cannot have sex.

Jesus said that angels do not have sex. for they are all male so that would be homosexuality.

also then who are the angels who left their first estate and are now bound in everlasting chains waiting for judgment.

Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Angels when they appeared in the celestial bodies are glorious, winged etc.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are wrongly assuming what my view is. Angels came to Earth and had children which were literal giants. My position is that these angels didn't have to make any physical change at all to do this.

Well my bad then. I apologize.

But we do not know much about angels when they are in their celestial bodies to know for sure. We know they shine, have massive strength etc.

Whether they mask it or not when they descended to have sex with women we simply do not have enough info to make firm conclusions.

 

[RLT63]

And the verse that syas what you just said is????

Genesis 18
King James Version

18 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Genesis 19:5
King James Version

5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.


Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

YOU need to show that angels when they come to earth cannot have sex! You need to givwe a verse that says angels cannot have sex.

Jesus said that angels do not have sex. for they are all male so that would be homosexuality.

also then who are the angels who left their first estate and are now bound in everlasting chains waiting for judgment.

Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Angels when they appeared in the celestial bodies are glorious, winged etc.

Wait a minute. He agrees with you that the Sons of God were angels that had children that were giants. He was just saying the angels didn't have to change their form. So y'all are in closer agreement than you thought.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wait a minute. He agrees with you that the Sons of God were angels that had children that were giants. He was just saying the angels didn't have to change their form. So y'all are in closer agreement than you thought.

Yeah, I just figured that out! Today the lamp of my brain is kind of dim!!!!!!

 

[RLT63]

Yeah, I just figured that out! Today the lamp of my brain is kind of dim!!!!!!

Glad there are some other people who see the Sethite view is unscriptural and makes no sense.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Glad there are some other people who see the Sethite view is unscriptural and makes no sense.

I could never figure out why people thought that way. It takes so much allegorizing and philosphizing to reach those conclusions. It just never made a lick of sense to me- even when I was still in spiritual diapers. I have come full circle though! Now that I am 68 and almost 50 years in the Lord, I am getting ready for spiritual depends!!!!!!

 

[RLT63]

I could never figure out why people thought that way. It takes so much allegorizing and philosphizing to reach those conclusions. It just never made a lick of sense to me- even when I was still in spiritual diapers. I have come full circle though! Now that I am 68 and almost 50 years in the Lord, I am getting ready for spiritual depends!!!!!!

I first paid attention to it when I read "Learn The Bible In 24 Hours".

 

[Prim]

• Lamech gives us the reason for this in Genesis chapter 5

Genesis 5:28-29
28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah[c] and said, “He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed.”

The faithful people of God began to lose faith and complain about the pain and burden of working a cursed soil. Lamech named his son Noah which means rest as he thought that Noah would bring his people comfort and rest.

What the daughters of men offered the sons of God was Autonomy

Autonomy

1. The right or condition of self-government.

A self-governing country or region.

• Freedom from external control or influence; independence.

Self-government · independence · self-rule · home rule · sovereignty ·

The daughters of men offered the sons of God the autonomy they desired. The sons of God saw the great accomplishments and advances of the sons of men. The sons of men lived a self-governed and independent life aside from God. This enticed the sons of God so they intermarried with the daughters of men and put aside the ways of the Lord and lived their own self determined lives.

Marty a interesting scenario that Noah would comfort the people from the curse of hard work and toil put upon them from the curse of the land. But you say that they started to complain and lose faith in God because of it. Well I do think the curse and toil of the post flood world has been much more severe then the pre flood era which seems to have been far more tropical and a bearable environment than we have today. One thing is for certain there has been a lot of grunting and groaning from tilling the soil throughout our some 4-5 thousand years of post flood history. It has only been in recent times, in the past 150 yrs with modern agricultural equipment that the working the land has become much easier. Yet the curse still remains. The working of land in all that time hasn’t diminished our faith in God one bit. I don’t think it was merely hard work that turned the world against God. And than you bring forth a mind boggling thesis’s. That It be the daughters of men that offered to man autonomy. Well maybe in paradise with the tree of knowledge of good & evil. But the matter of autonomy from God was decided by both were they not. You than go on to basically say that the sons of God were enticed into intermarriage by the daughters of men simply because of the sons of men great advancements and accomplishments. Marty this is pure assumption and speculation I don’t find any hint of that in the pre flood account seems that the Ark design given by God was built by highly educated and godly men. But if your interpretation be correct, and that it was merely the godly line intermingling with with the ungodly and not angelic activity. Than how are we to evaluate the Babylonian captivity of the Jewish people after the destruction of the first temple where they took themselves many foreign wives. Was the the world destroyed because of it? No. Even when the latter generation were allowed to return to rebuild the temple God did not destroy. As noted in Ezra chapter 10 of the many tribes of Israel. They were simply told to put put away their foreign wives upon the rebuilding of the temple or go their separate ways. We could mention King Solomon and his many foreign wives and concubines too It seems to me that the gravity of the sons of God was something much more deeper than merely the godly line of Seth intermingling with the ungodly linage of men. And more to the point of angelic activity and the contamination of the human race in a attempt to deny the fulfilment of our future Messiah. I’m sure you continue to have many thoughts on the subject.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty a interesting scenario that Noah would comfort the people from the curse of hard work and toil put upon them from the curse of the land. But you say that they started to complain and lose faith in God because of it. Well I do think the curse and toil of the post flood world has been much more severe then the pre flood era which seems to have been far more tropical and bearable environment than we have today. One thing is for certain there has been a lot of grunting and groaning from tilling the soil throughout our some 4-5 thousand years of post flood history. It has only been in recent times, in the past 150 yrs with modern agricultural equipment that the working the land has become much easier. Yet the curse still remains. The working of land in all that time hasn’t diminished our faith in God one bit. I think it was much that turned the world against God. And than you bring forth a mind boggling thesis’s. It be the daughters of men that offered to man autonomy. Well maybe in paradise with the tree of knowledge of good & evil. But the matter of autonomy from God was decided by both were they not. You than go on to basically say that the sons of God were enticed into intermarriage with the daughters of men simply because of their sons of mens great advancements and accomplishments. Marty this is pure assumption and speculation I don’t find any hint of that in the pre flood account seems that the Ark design given by God was built by highly educated and godly men. But if your interpretation be correct, and that it was merely the godly line intermingling with with the ungodly and not angelic activity. Than how are we to evaluate the Babylonian captivity of the Jewish people after the destruction of the first temple where they took themselves many foreign wives. Was the the world destroyed because of it? No. Even when the latter generation were allowed to return to rebuild the temple God did not destroy. As noted in Ezra chapter 10 of the many tribes of Israel they were simply told to put their foreign wives away upon the rebuilding of the temple or go their separate ways. We could mention King Solomon and his many foreign wives and concubines too It seems to me that the gravity of the sons of God was something much more deeper than merely the godly line of Seth intermingling with the ungodly linage of men. And more to the point of angelic activity and the contamination of the human race in a attempt to deny the fulfilment of our future Messiah. I’m sure you continue to have many thoughts on the subject.

I didn't say Noah would comfort them I just posted the bible verse that Lamech said it. We need to remember that these people lived for hundreds of years and they knew that God had cursed the land.

My point is that autonomy was the reason God destroyed the world with a flood because the faithful dwindled down to just one man Noah. If God didn't bring on the flood then the faithful line would of ended thats the difference from the time of the flood and the Babylonian captivity.

Genesis shows the great advances and skills of Cains line but the only thing mentioned in Seths line was that they were faithful to God and God gave Noah the instructions on how to build the ark.

 

[RLT63]

I didn't say Noah would comfort them I just posted the bible verse that Lamech said it. We need to remember that these people lived for hundreds of years and they knew that God had cursed the land.

My point is that autonomy was the reason God destroyed the world with a flood because the faithful dwindled down to just one man Noah. If God didn't bring on the flood then the faithful line would of ended thats the difference from the time of the flood and the Babylonian captivity.

Genesis shows the great advances and skills of Cains line but the only thing mentioned in Seths line was that they were faithful to God and God gave Noah the instructions on how to build the ark.

If that was God's purpose for the flood it failed. Everyone got together under Nimrod and decided to build a tower to Heaven. God had to come down and put a stop to it. No I think the human race being corrupted so the Savior couldn't come was a more compelling reason for a world wide flood.

 

[Marty fox]

If that was God's purpose for the flood it failed. Everyone got together under Nimrod and decided to build a tower to Heaven. God had to come down and put a stop to it. No I think the human race being corrupted so the Savior couldn't come was a more compelling reason for a world wide flood.

The bible doesn’t say everyone was at Babel just that there was one language and these were the people who went east. These people were punished because of autonomy verse 4 confirms it

4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.

You see after the flood God gave the command to go and multiply the earth but these people chose their own will for their lives over Gods will for their lives.

Autonomy is the fall of man kind as God knows what’s best for us and wants us to live out His will for us in our lives but we go against God and choose our own will. Satan knows this and temps us with it the first example of this was Eve in the garden.

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

You see Eve didn’t want to be subject to God which was the will of God for her she wanted to be like God.

 

[Prim]

I didn't say Noah would comfort them I just posted the bible verse that Lamech said it. We need to remember that these people lived for hundreds of years and they knew that God had cursed the land.

My point is that autonomy was the reason God destroyed the world with a flood because the faithful dwindled down to just one man Noah. If God didn't bring on the flood then the faithful line would of ended thats the difference from the time of the flood and the Babylonian captivity.

Genesis shows the great advances and skills of Cains line but the only thing mentioned in Seths line was that they were faithful to God and God gave Noah the instructions on how to build the ark.

Marty not only Genesis 5:28-29, actually the whole of Genesis chapter 5 is about genealogy going all the way back to Adam the entirety of the human race and not just the supposed godly line of Lamach. I fail to see how you can link that to a separate godly line when there was just humanity at the time godly or ungodly. Well yes they certainly lived anywhere up to a thousand years in some cases, but I’m sure they realised the ground was already cursed from a very early age. You say that God brought in the flood because Noah was the last faithful line. You don’t think God could not have created a faithful line out of Ham Shem and Japheth or who ever else was alive at the time if it was merely about faithfulness to God. Seems to me throughout all those long life spans that genetic angelic activity and corruption was taking place and would make a whole lot more sense to why God did destroy the old world so fully. You than go on to claim once again that there was great advances and skills in the line of Cain more so than the line Seth. Marty where do you find this? Certainly not in the pre flood chapters of Genesis. As to Noah he was highly intelligent. A craftsman and a builder having to know calculations, mathematics, dimensions, radius and measurements in order to build something the size of the Titanic even if God gave him the plan. About the only thing I discover of the linage of Cain, is that he was originally a tiller of the field and than a vagabond and a fugitive upon the earth I don’t discover anywhere those advances and skills that you mention in the line of Cain. At least not in the pre flood chapters I’m not saying that they weren’t capable of such feats. But to put their ability above or better than the line of Seth is just assumption. At least from what I can observe

 

[Marty fox]

Marty not only Genesis 5:28-29, actually the whole of Genesis chapter 5 is about genealogy going all the way back to Adam the entirety of the human race and not just the supposed godly line of Lamach. I fail to see how you can link that to a separate godly line when there was just humanity at the time godly or ungodly. Well yes they certainly lived anywhere up to a thousand years in some cases, but I’m sure they realised the ground was already cursed from a very early age. You say that God brought in the flood because Noah was the last faithful line. You don’t think God could not have created a faithful line out of Ham Shem and Japheth or who ever else was alive at the time if it was merely about faithfulness to God. Seems to me throughout all those long life spans that genetic angelic activity and corruption was taking place and would make a whole lot more sense to why God did destroy the old world so fully. You than go on to claim once again that there was great advances and skills in the line of Cain more so than the line Seth. Marty where do you find this? Certainly not in the pre flood chapters of Genesis. As to Noah he was highly intelligent. A craftsman and a builder having to know calculations, mathematics, dimensions, radius and measurements in order to build something the size of the Titanic even if God gave him the plan. About the only thing I discover of the linage of Cain, is that he was originally a tiller of the field and than a vagabond and a fugitive upon the earth I don’t discover anywhere those advances and skills that you mention in the line of Cain. At least not in the pre flood chapters I’m not saying that they weren’t capable of such feats. But to put their ability above or better than the line of Seth is just assumption. At least from what I can observe

The bible states that Noah was the only faithful man on the earth when the flood started there was no one else thus the ark saved mankind lives just like Jesus is our ark that saved mankind souls.

Chapter 5 gives the faithful line of Adam only through Seth you need to read chapter 4 to see Cains line and the skills they had.

 

[ewq1938]

The bible states that Noah was the only faithful man on the earth when the flood started

Where does the bible say that?

 

[RLT63]

The bible doesn’t say everyone was at Babel just that there was one language and these were the people who went east. These people were punished because of autonomy verse 4 confirms it

4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.

You see after the flood God gave the command to go and multiply the earth but these people chose their own will for their lives over Gods will for their lives.

Autonomy is the fall of man kind as God knows what’s best for us and wants us to live out His will for us in our lives but we go against God and choose our own will. Satan knows this and temps us with it the first example of this was Eve in the garden.

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

You see Eve didn’t want to be subject to God which was the will of God for her she wanted to be like God.

What was the purpose of the flood if it just happened again?

 

[Marty fox]

Where does the bible say that?

Genesis 7:1
The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

 

[Marty fox]

What was the purpose of the flood if it just happened again?

To save mankind God preserved the faithful

 

[Prim]

The bible states that Noah was the only faithful man on the earth when the flood started there was no one else thus the ark saved mankind lives just like Jesus is our ark that saved mankind souls.

Chapter 5 gives the faithful line of Adam only through Seth you need to read chapter 4 to see Cains line.

Yes I do read that now and Cain buildeth a city and his offspring be a mixture of professions from tent dwellers and cattle herders to the profession of musical instruments and also the creators of artificers of brass & iron. Point taken. There not seem to be much in the way of description with what professions the line of Seth did excel in. Only that we know they were just as intelligent in being able to build a ark the size of the titanic. As to Noah being the only faithful man upon the earth at the time. Well not quite . You had Noah’s wife and his their 3 sons and wives. But that was not the point I was trying to make. The point I’m trying to make is that God could have easily brought forth other generations of faithful believers from the gene pool of Noah and his sons families and also from the ungodly in their future generations that is of course if they were fully human. Why destroy a entire world if it were merely the sinful nature of humanity which actively continues on in the new world everyday which has continued for some 4-5 thousand years when in the old world it was destroyed midway between one and two thousand years. It seems to imply much darker implications than merely just humanities fallen nature.