The Little Book

[David H.]

It's no coincidence that there are repeating elements from one age to another. 12 tribes, 12 disciples. ---twelve "brothers" -and someone gets sold out for a few pieces of silver and it's only by God turning what was meant for evil into good that redemption and freedom from captivity comes. -- and as with that little poem- that redeemer has two boys who are blessed by the Father, crossing his hands on their heads as he did so.... two brothers of a different mother, but made of the twelve. There is good reason to wonder about James and John and their close relationship with Jesus, having significance. I'd be happy to share, and to listen to your reference to Zerubbabel, which I assume to be rooted in Zechariah's time. It's a retelling. Rinse. Repeat.

I Don't think Epi will mind if we drift a bit.... It seems to happen a lot on these threads here.

At the end of Haggai, it is said of Zerubbabel,
In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts. 2:23
So the question is what is "That day"? Did God overthrow the kingdoms of this world when the physical second temple was built as verse 22 speaks of or is this a future event?
Then Zechariah appears to confirm this:
The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. 4:9-10

This is immediately followed up by the prophecy of the two anointed ones verses 11-14.

The Seven eyes are the Seven Spirits of God sent forth to all the earth. (Rev. 5:6) Literally sown in Babylon The name meaning of Zerubbabel, which I believe is also referring to the seven angels of the seven churches. A reference to the seven churches uniting in the Unity of the Spirit. (Not to be confused with ecumenism).... It is those seven eyes that form the Temple, not built with Human hands "Not by power or by might but with my Spirit..." (Zech. 4:6), Those seven lamps on that candlestick (Churches) sit on the foundation laid by Zerubbabel, and he shall finish that temple.

This goes into what Jen is speaking of here of the Antichrist who declares Himself God in that temple.

BTW, Do not ever worry about derailing threads The Spirit will blow as he wills, you can't know or see where he is going but you can only see the effects and follow. John 3:8

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Interesting stuff…
Its always too much to take in!

 

[Mr E]

I Don't think Epi will mind if we drift a bit.... It seems to happen a lot on these threads here.

At the end of Haggai, it is said of Zerubbabel,
In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts. 2:23
So the question is what is "That day"? Did God overthrow the kingdoms of this world when the physical second temple was built as verse 22 speaks of or is this a future event?
Then Zechariah appears to confirm this:
The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. 4:9-10

This is immediately followed up by the prophecy of the two anointed ones verses 11-14.

The Seven eyes are the Seven Spirits of God sent forth to all the earth. (Rev. 5:6) Literally sown in Babylon The name meaning of Zerubbabel, which I believe is also referring to the seven angels of the seven churches. A reference to the seven churches uniting in the Unity of the Spirit. (Not to be confused with ecumenism).... It is those seven eyes that form the Temple, not built with Human hands "Not by power or by might but with my Spirit..." (Zech. 4:6), Those seven lamps on that candlestick (Churches) sit on the foundation laid by Zerubbabel, and he shall finish that temple.

This goes into what Jen is speaking of here of the Antichrist who declares Himself God in that temple.

BTW, Do not ever worry about derailing threads The Spirit will blow as he wills, you can't know or see where he is going but you can only see the effects and follow. John 3:8

And, as you know from history, the foundation for an actual temple (the second temple) was begun by Zerubbabel in Jerusalem (later renovated and improved by Herod the Great).

But Jesus revealed that those physical temples of stone are not the house of God as men thought at the time. He says God builds his home of living stones (people) and His kingdom is within. It’s brick and mortar versus virtual. Versus spiritual.

Jesus reveals what kind of houses/temples exist in the spiritual reality that supersedes anything and everything physical. He dwells in human tents. If you want to know more about His kind of tabernacles, read again that story about what was seen on the Mount, and who accompanied him. Peter didn’t know what he was saying— but he said a lot.

 

[David H.]

Interesting stuff…
Its always too much to take in!

This is the way revelation from The Spirit often is. Many times I cannot fully explain what he shows me until sometime later, but the image is embossed in our memory. Read the end of Haggai, and Zechariah chapter 4.... Even parts of chapter three to get the bigger picture. What you are saying about the mind of man limiting prophetic insight is important to this. Spiritual understanding is far more important than logical understanding (Carnal mind). You Have a bunch of people who are looking for a physical temple to be built. I think they are looking for the wrong thing.

 

[David H.]

Jesus reveals what kind of houses/temples exist in the spiritual reality that supersedes anything and everything physical. He dwells in human tents. If you want to know more about his kind of tabernacles, read again that story about what was seen on the Mount, and who accompanied him. Peter didn’t know what he was saying— but he said a lot.

Exactly.

 

[David H.]

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. ( 1 Peter 2:5)

 

[Mr E]

This is the way revelation from The Spirit often is. Many times I cannot fully explain what he shows me until sometime later, but the image is embossed in our memory. Read the end of Haggai, and Zechariah chapter 4.... Even parts of chapter three to get the bigger picture. What you are saying about the mind of man limiting prophetic insight is important to this. Spiritual understanding is far more important than logical understanding (Carnal mind). You Have a bunch of people who are looking for a physical temple to be built. I think they are looking for the wrong thing.

It's the same mistake Moses made. You see something spiritual and what do you do? You try to recreate it physically.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below.

What did they do? They carved stone and reproduced those things they saw.

It's interesting to note that when Jesus walked with us, he had little interest in the temple on earth. He spoke often of a heavenly kingdom.

But there is always a replica 'on earth as it is in heaven' one by human hands, the other in spirit.

 

[Mr E]

Since you brought it up @David H. and @Episkopos doesn't seem to mind-- I'll point you to that account of what happened on the mountain... in the cloud. (a clue)

Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John and led them alone up a high mountain privately. And he was transfigured before them, and his clothes became radiantly white, more so than any launderer in the world could bleach them. Then Elijah appeared before them along with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. So Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us make three shelters —one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” (For they were afraid, and he did not know what to say.) Then a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came from the cloud, “This is my one dear Son. Listen to him!” Suddenly when they looked around, they saw no one with them any more except Jesus.

And so it was. Three tents, in spirit..... three tabernacles or temples or houses. One for each of them. And of Jesus said-- Upon this rock (Peter) I will build my church. And there with him, two tents remained, one for Moses and one for Elijah (spirit). James, and John.

How does that work exactly? He explains-- that it's the spirit that dwells in a human tent, just as Elijah had come in the form of John the Baptist, these are spirit, overlaid on humanity--- like riders on a horse.

As they were coming down from the mountain, he gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until after the Son of Man had risen from the dead. They kept this statement to themselves, discussing what this rising from the dead meant.
Then they asked him, “Why do the experts in the law say that Elijah must come first?” He said to them, “Elijah does indeed come first, and restores all things. And why is it written that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be despised? But I tell you that Elijah has certainly come, and they did to him whatever they wanted, just as it is written about him.”

 

[Mr E]

 

[Lizbeth]

I see the whole “I am as righteous and holy as Jesus” as being that setting himself in the temple of God and showing himself as God and claiming to be God.

Thats the spirit of the matter as I saw it.

I don't think in those terms and neither do many others who believe in imputed righteousness, on the contrary the more we go along the more grateful and humbled we become for that grace. It's more like God sees us as righteous, because we are "hid" in Christ. But we have received His righteousness like a seed that needs to grow into an outworking of His grace within.

Not to mention those passages are universal for everyone, not just those with a doctrine of imputed righteousness. Well, anyway, this just highlights how wrong doctrine can cause us to see scriptures through a wrong lens.

 

[Nancy]

Something sweet in your mouth that turns bitter in the stomach.

It seems like it's going to be good and pleasant, but it ends up being unsettling, to the point that it makes you ill.

People think that they understand this little book, -it seems sweet because they find comfort in their own understanding, or those things that they have been taught by others. What if almost all of those things you have swallowed over the years turned out to be mostly incorrect?

Would that sit well in your belly?

Do not know why but, I think what is in the little book are sins...can give you momentary pleasure but the end thereof is death...?

 

[Mr E]

Do not know why but, I think what is in the little book are sins...can give you momentary pleasure but the end thereof is death...?

That's not a terrible way of looking at it, in a broad sense. "Sin" is missing the mark. It's error. -Getting it wrong.

Moses in fact 'sinned' when he made an earthly copy of all those heavenly things. It cost him the promised land after 40 years of searching, then finally seeing it.

 

[David H.]

But there is always a replica 'on earth as it is in heaven' one by human hands, the other in spirit.

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Revelation 11:19

We are the ark of His testament.... For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: (Hebrews 9:24)

Off on a tangent here for those who are watching in the background.....
I Hope there are some here who see how the Spirit moves us. This sort of understanding is not cohesive and logical as many fundamentalists like to put God in, But rather is Spiritual and Spiritually discerned. Scripture comes alive when you are in the Spirit, it jumps from place to place almost incongruently and incomprehensibly as it brings to mind the words written therein. "Thy Word have I hid in my heart...". I was raised a fundamentalist... I do not demean that in my life and upbringning as the Word of God was hid in my heart because of it, But now when I walk in the Spirit it is those fundamentalists who are still thinking with the carnal mind that most of the opposition comes from.... because they cannot comprehend, and are afraid to stretch their Spiritual legs and walk in the Spirit. There are so many deep hidden things written in scripture, especially in the Epistles which were concealed (Knowingly or unknowingly i do not know) which allowed those Epistles to be delivered for the carnal minds of the roman captors could not see them. Now Christians who rely on carnal minds cannot see them either, and hence there is a famine in the land of hearing the word of God. I Invite those who do not see perhaps because they are bound by these fundamentalist "traditions" to explore what is said here and be Berreans about it.

 

[Mr E]

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Revelation 11:19

We are the ark of His testament.... For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: (Hebrews 9:24)

Off on a tangent here for those who are watching in the background.....
I Hope there are some here who see how the Spirit moves us. This sort of understanding is not cohesive and logical as many fundamentalists like to put God in, But rather is Spiritual and Spiritually discerned. Scripture comes alive when you are in the Spirit, it jumps from place to place almost incongruently and incomprehensibly as it brings to mind the words written therein. "Thy Word have I hid in my heart...". I was raised a fundamentalist... I do not demean that in my life and upbringning as the Word of God was hid in my heart because of it, But now when I walk in the Spirit it is those fundamentalists who are still thinking with the carnal mind that most of the opposition comes from.... because they cannot comprehend, and are afraid to stretch their Spiritual legs and walk in the Spirit. There are so many deep hidden things written in scripture, especially in the Epistles which were concealed (Knowingly or unknowingly i do not know) which allowed those Epistles to be delivered for the carnal minds of the roman captors could not see them. Now Christians who rely on carnal minds cannot see them either, and hence there is a famine in the land of hearing the word of God. I Invite those who do not see perhaps because they are bound by these fundamentalist "traditions" to explore what is said here and be Berreans about it.

And you'd think we'd learn. Yet as we speak there are those assembling plans to rebuild a temple in Jerusalem. Of course they will.

 

[David H.]

And you'd think we'd learn. Yet as we speak there are those assembling plans to rebuild a temple in Jerusalem. Of course they will.

And by the time they do He will be coming as a thief in the night for them.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's not a terrible way of looking at it, in a broad sense. "Sin" is missing the mark. It's error. -Getting it wrong.

Moses in fact 'sinned' when he made an earthly copy of all those heavenly things. It cost him the promised land after 40 years of searching, then finally seeing it.

It was only the first sentence (of that previous post of yours which I hit like on) that I disagreed with. But I hit like because i thought the rest of it was good and I didn’t say anything because I didn’t want to start any strife. But here you say it again, that Moses sinned, but I disagree. God TOLD him to be careful to make everything according to the pattern God showed him on the mountain. It was a picture of things in heaven and spiritual things.

 

[Mr E]

It was only the first sentence (of that previous post of yours which I hit like on) that I disagreed with. But I hit like because i thought the rest of it was good and I didn’t say anything because I didn’t want to start any strife. But here you say it again, that Moses sinned, but I disagree. God TOLD him to be careful to make everything according to the pattern God showed him on the mountain.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers. I know what I know.

God showed him/told him things on the mountain. He showed him how everything was. He showed him (in spirit-in the cloud) how everything was to be made. He didn't tell him to go make a physical copy of those things. In fact, He told him specifically NOT to do that.

God gave Moses commandments on stone (in the cloud) Moses carved his own. And then he went about making a physical replica of everything God told him to make in spirit.

I know this is new.... and probably bitter in your stomach.

Read Exodus 24

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It’s not bitter to me. I just think you are wrong in it.

 

[Mr E]

It’s not bitter to me. I just think you are wrong in it.

Each to their own. - I edited the above to add a reference. Exodus 24. Actually everything from Ch 24 to the end of Ch 31 were spiritual things shown and said to him in the cloud, on the mountain.

He came down with the work of God-- which he immediately broke. And made himself a copy-- immediately breaking a specific commandment that was written on the originals.

Moses turned and went down from the mountain with the two tablets of the testimony in his hands. The tablets were written on both sides—they were written on the front and on the back. Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets.

 

[amigo de christo]

Too many indeed are trying to understand the little book and yet dont simply read the BIG BOOK often and daily
for themselves . Love the BIG BOOK and all things written and in time we can learn and will learn
simple concepts like what the meaning was behind the little book . Too many enjoy reasoning
and trying to figure things out , and yet dont have much love for all things written in the BIG BOOK . known as the BIBLE .
Let our love be upon every Word written in the bible . In time things will become clearer and clearer .