The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Spiritual Israelite]

At least Premills accept what the text says and don't change it.

LOL. This is the most ridiculous type of argument that anyone can make. Amils accept what the text says as well. We just don't interpret it the same way as Premils. To you, accepting what the text says means to take it literally. Do you take the verses that speak of a beast with seven heads and ten horns literally? I'm sure you don't. So, does that mean you don't accept what the text in those verses says?

It says he is imprisoned and CANNOT deceive the nations. Amillennialism teaches he isn't imprisoned and can deceive the nations.

No, Amillennialism teaches that he IS imprisoned and cannot deceive the nations in the context of what Revelation 20 is talking about. But, we don't agree with Premils on that. That does NOT mean we don't agree with what the text says. We simply recognize that the text is figurative rather than literal, unlike Premils like you.

You really need to stop your lies about Amillennialism. It's shows how desperate you are to try to keep Premil afloat. You're clearly unable to support Premil with scripture, so you resort to telling lies about Amillennialism instead.

 

[ewq1938]

LOL. This is the most ridiculous type of argument that anyone can make. Amils accept what the text says as well.

Nope. You turn a binding and imprisonment into him like a dog on a long chain, still deceiving the nations, not imprisoned which is not what the text says.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, you believe that a spirit being can somehow be literally chained up in a prison. That makes as much sense as your belief that Jesus will literally slay people with a symbolic sword that comes out of His mouth.

Are you literally saying the angels in Jude 1:6 are not actually bound in chains of darkness?

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Are you saying the pit will not literally be opened in Revelation 9:1-3?

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."

 

[Truth7t7]

Nope. You turn a binding and imprisonment into him like a dog on a long chain, still deceiving the nations, not imprisoned which is not what the text says.

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[ewq1938]

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

You turn a binding and imprisonment into him like a dog on a long chain, still deceiving the nations, not imprisoned which is not what the text says.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you literally saying the angels in Jude 1:6 are not actually bound in chains of darkness?

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Are you saying the pit will not literally be opened in Revelation 9:1-3?

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."

No, I don't believe those are talking about angels, who are spirit beings, being literally chained up. It's figurative language being used in those verses.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You turn a binding and imprisonment into him like a dog on a long chain, still deceiving the nations, not imprisoned which is not what the text says.

I interpret the text figuratively and you interpret it literally. That's the difference. You have decided to interpret everything within a highly symbolic book literally unless it explicitly indicates otherwise. I don't see that as being a wise approach.

 

[ewq1938]

I interpret the text figuratively and you interpret it literally. That's the difference. You have decided to interpret everything within a highly symbolic book literally unless it explicitly indicates otherwise. I don't see that as being a wise approach.

It isn't wise and it doesn't apply to me. I interpret scripture with a balance of figurative when it's clearly figurative and literal when it;'s clearly literal.

Amillennialism still is in direct opposition to Revelation 20 claiming satan is not imprisoned and satan is not unable to deceive the nations. One of many reasons to fully reject Amillennialism as unscriptural.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It isn't wise and it doesn't apply to me. I interpret scripture with a balance of figurative when it's clearly figurative and literal when it;'s clearly literal.

Like I said, you need it to be explicitly spelled out to you in order for you to recognize when it's figurative.

Amillennialism still is in direct opposition to Revelation 20 claiming satan is not imprisoned and satan is not unable to deceive the nations. One of many reasons to fully reject Amillennialism as unscriptural.

None of your reasons are convincing. It's quite easy to refute all of them. None of them take all of scripture into account. You draw conclusions from isolated verses without even thinking about whether or not your interpretation of those isolated verses matches up with the rest of scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

Like I said, you need it to be explicitly spelled out to you in order for you to recognize when it's figurative.

Like I said, you need it to be explicitly spelled out to you in order for you to recognize when it's literal.



Amillennialism still is in direct opposition to Revelation 20 claiming satan is not imprisoned and satan is not unable to deceive the nations. One of many reasons to fully reject Amillennialism as unscriptural.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Like I said, you need it to be explicitly spelled out to you in order for you to recognize when it's literal.

No, I don't. Nice try.

Amillennialism still is in direct opposition to Revelation 20 claiming satan is not imprisoned and satan is not unable to deceive the nations. One of many reasons to fully reject Amillennialism as unscriptural.

When will you stop the lies? It truly makes you look very bad when you lie like this. We don't claim he isn't imprisoned and isn't unable to deceive the nations. We claim that he isn't imprisoned and unable to deceive the nations in the way Premils understsand those things. We are not required to have the same understanding as Premils as far as what it means for Satan to be bound. His binding is figuratively represented by a dragon being chained in a prison, but what does that mean in reality? Somehow, Premils have determined that the reality is no different than the symbolism. Using that type of logic, we would conclude that Satan looks like a dragon with seven heads and ten horns in reality.

 

[ewq1938]

When will you stop the lies? It truly makes you look very bad when you lie like this.

No lies. Amillennialism is in direct opposition to Revelation 20 claiming satan is not imprisoned and satan is not unable to deceive the nations. Those are FACTS. One of many reasons to fully reject Amillennialism as unscriptural.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, I don't believe those are talking about angels, who are spirit beings, being literally chained up. It's figurative language being used in those verses.

Those are literal chains, Home Depot!

 

[Timtofly]

Somehow, Premils have determined that the reality is no different than the symbolism. Using that type of logic, we would conclude that Satan looks like a dragon with seven heads and ten horns in reality.

Then stop using the term "Satan is bound", and post the "dragon is figuratively bound".

That is what you mean.

 

[PinSeeker]

Amillennialism is in direct opposition to Revelation 20 claiming satan is not imprisoned and satan is not unable to deceive the nations. Those are FACTS. One of many reasons to fully reject Amillennialism as unscriptural.

Those are not facts at all. Revelation 20 does not make those claims at all. Those "facts" are merely what Premillennialists foist upon it. So to reject Amillennialism based on those things is, well, to use a baseball analogy, to strike out and subsequently trot around the bases claiming to have hit a home run.

Not to single you out, ewq1938, but specifically to this assertion you have made about Satan's binding/imprisonment, it might be interesting to hear the Premillennialist's understanding of what Jesus was saying here and what the implications were...

"But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." [Matthew 12:28-30, emphasis mine]​

...and whether they see any connection in what Jesus says here to what John says, relating his dream, specifically in Revelation 20:1-3, which states as follows:

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while." [Revelation 20:1-3, emphasis mine]​

If there is a close connection ~ and there is ~ then are both passages merely future only? That cannot be said of Matthew 12, because Jesus was casting out demons then. Well, okay, so is Jesus in Matthew 12 talking about the past (and possibly present) only, while the other, Revelation 20 is talking about the future only? That can't be, because then Scripture would be contradicting not only itself, but what Jesus Himself said, which is not the case.

So...

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Timtofly]

Those are not facts at all. Revelation 20 does not make those claims at all. Those "facts" are merely what Premillennialists foist upon it. So to reject Amillennialism based on those things is, well, to use a baseball analogy, to strike out and subsequently trot around the bases claiming to have hit a home run.

Not to single you out, ewq1938, but specifically to this assertion you have made about Satan's binding/imprisonment, it might be interesting to hear the Premillennialist's understanding of what Jesus was saying here and what the implications were...

"But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters." [Matthew 12:28-30, emphasis mine]​

...and whether they see any connection in what Jesus says here to what John says, relating his dream, specifically in Revelation 20:1-3, which states as follows:

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while." [Revelation 20:1-3, emphasis mine]​

If there is a close connection ~ and there is ~ then are both passages merely future only? That cannot be said of Matthew 12, because Jesus was casting out demons then. Well, okay, so is Jesus in Matthew 12 talking about the past (and possibly present) only, while the other, Revelation 20 is talking about the future only? That can't be, because then Scripture would be contradicting not only itself, but what Jesus Himself said, which is not the case.

So...

Grace and peace to all.

Matthew 12:28-30 is an analogy. Revelation 20:1-3 is a reality.

Analogy: a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

Reality: the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.

 

[Truth7t7]

You turn a binding and imprisonment into him like a dog on a long chain, still deceiving the nations, not imprisoned which is not what the text says.

The text states "Deceive The Nations" is to the final battle as Revelation 20:7-8 below clearly teaches, you can claim otherwise all you want, read it again and again "Fact"

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[PinSeeker]

Matthew 12:28-30 is an analogy.

It's actually a metaphor, which certainly does have a quality of analogousness, but is much more than a mere analogy. And even so, the fact that it is metaphorical does absolutely nothing to downgrade or lessen its application to reality. And in this way it is very much like all of Jesus's parables.

Revelation 20:1-3 is a reality.

No, it's part of John's dream, Timtofly, and symbolic of reality. There were actually folks of that day who thought dreams were reality and that what actually happened in their/our day-to-day lives were really just dreams, but of course that's ridiculous.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ewq1938]

The text states "Deceive The Nations" is to the final battle as Revelation 20:7-8 below clearly teaches, you can claim otherwise all you want, read it again and again "Fact"

You are adding "is to the final battle". The text simply says, "he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled"

He is supposed to deceive the nations after the thousand years.



Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[Timtofly]

It's actually a metaphor, which certainly does have a quality of analogousness, but is much more than a mere analogy. And even so, the fact that it is metaphorical does absolutely nothing to downgrade or lessen its application to reality. And in this way it is very much like all of Jesus's parables.

Jesus came to His people the Jews of that day. Are you saying Satan was running the Sanhedrin, and Jesus had to literally bind Satan to prevent that from happening?

It was an analogy. Are you next going to say that Satan every day was flung through the sky like a lightning bolt? There was no literal binding of Satan, nor Satan moving through the sky. Satan was not even in charge of the world. All Satan can do is deceive people. Satan even deceived himself, thinking he has power when he obviously does not.

No, it's part of John's dream, Timtofly, and symbolic of reality. There were actually folks of that day who thought dreams were reality and that what actually happened in their/our day-to-day lives were really just dreams, but of course that's ridiculous.

Grace and peace to you.

How did John get his writings out of the dream? John was taken by the Holy Spirit to the future. John was an eyewitness to the events. John was writing the book while watching what was happening. John had to write symbolically. He was writing about today's life as a first century viewer to first century readers.