The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.
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59. Does Amillennialism promote the gospel being locked in the pit with satan?
Yes, sadly.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Amillennialism teaches that the chain binding satan is the gospel and according to the above passage, that "gospel" gets to spend the longer-than-a-thousand-years-thousand years in the bottomless pit with satan and other evil beings and spirits and demons etc.
Where does Amill believe the gospel belongs? In the bottomless pit with satan! With those who cannot and will not accept the gospel! Shouldn't the gospel be in the world with us??
The gospel is NOT the chain an angel brings down from heaven! The gospel is in the world already long before this happens! The gospel NEVER is locked and sealed inside the pit!
Yes, sadly.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Amillennialism teaches that the chain binding satan is the gospel and according to the above passage, that "gospel" gets to spend the longer-than-a-thousand-years-thousand years in the bottomless pit with satan and other evil beings and spirits and demons etc.
Where does Amill believe the gospel belongs? In the bottomless pit with satan! With those who cannot and will not accept the gospel! Shouldn't the gospel be in the world with us??
The gospel is NOT the chain an angel brings down from heaven! The gospel is in the world already long before this happens! The gospel NEVER is locked and sealed inside the pit!
Amillennialism doesn't deny this in any shape, form, or fashion. Wow.
Grace and peace to you.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about here? Amils don't deny this. We strongly emphasize how the kingdom of God is spiritual and exists within us by way of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. Premils are the ones who usually deny the current kingdom of God and focus only on the future full manifestation of the kingdom of God.
You are constantly making up lies about Amil. You have no credibility and no one takes you seriously.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
This is yet another lie from you. You blatantly misrepresent Amil over and over again. You should be ashamed of yourself. You don't have any confidence in your own view, so you resort to making up lies about the view you disagree with. Pathetic.
You are the one assuming that it's talking about Satan somehow being literally chained in a literal pit. That is not the Amil understanding of the bottomless pit. We are not obligated to have the same literal understanding of Revelation 20 as you have.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
He's blatantly making up lies about Amil. It's unbelievable. He has no conscience.Amillennialism doesn't deny this in any shape, form, or fashion. Wow.
Grace and peace to you.
Well, most of what he's saying about Amillennialism and what Amillennialists believe is terribly incorrect (and ignorant, and at least somewhat stupid), but whether or not he's actually lying or not is questionable.
Grace and peace to you.
Is John saying all time shall be no longer, or is he telling us a specific time shall be no longer? The context using vs 7 also shows that time that shall be no longer is the time given to fulfill the mystery of God that He declared to His servants the prophets. We can't know the time that shall be no longer until we understand what is the mystery of God that should be finished.
Revelation 10:6-7 (KJV) And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
John writes of this time being symbolized a thousand years in Rev 20. It is time when Satan is bound, and the same time when faithful saints are martyred for their faith, as well as time when the blessed and holy, have part in the first resurrection, and overcome the second death.
Time that is symbolized a thousand years is time given the Church for proclaiming the Gospel unto all the nations of the earth. Because this is the mystery concealed and now through Christ revealed, that is, that Gentiles will hear the Gospel and by grace through faith believe, and through them the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven shall be finished. IOW the fullness of faithful Israel shall be complete when the last Gentiles are grafted with Israel of faith, and together are the "Israel of God." All people of faith in Christ, they mystery that had been hidden from the past, now revealed to Gentiles that we too have access to the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven when we believe Christ.
Romans 11:25 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Ephesians 3:8-9 (KJV) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Colossians 1:25-27 (KJV) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
When this specific time for proclaiming the Gospel has completed the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, then Satan will have his little season which will be for his and his followers utter destruction through the fire from God out of heaven.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
For him to misrepresent Amillennialism repeatedly the way he does gives the impression that he's doing it purposely. If it was just once in awhile instead of constantly, then I would assume he's just ignorant.
The early church fathers were all over the place with this discussion...some believed in a literal thousand years and some did not.
I know exactly how Jesus would settle this debate....just like He settled all the others.
Neither is correct.
I know exactly how Jesus would settle this debate....just like He settled all the others.
Neither is correct.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Right. Some try to say most of them believed in Premil, but that is not the case.
Amillennialism is correct. Unfortunately, it's being badly misrepresented in this thread. Are you a postmillennialist?
Nope...
I tend to side with Jesus when a debate of this nature breaks out. "Neither" is my best guess.
And with the prohibition in place I wouldn't tell you if I could. Besides, there's no extra reward for being the most theologically correct. Only for doing the most (plentiful) righteous actions....so I tend to focus on things to do these days instead of studying so hard.
Personally I'm hoping mission trips begin firing back up.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So do I, which is why I am an amillennialist just like Jesus is.
So, you are a full preterist, which is a clearly false doctrine that I can't take seriously whatsoever.
These verses can only be properly discerned when studied in context. Since there were not verse divisions, it is a mistake to read vs 5 apart from vs 6. First John is made to understand that physical death did not separate these faithful saints from Christ. Because they had lived and reigned with Christ during this time, symbolized a thousand years, in death they ascended to heaven as living (spirit) souls. They were the living, who had already died, but the rest of the dead, or those who had died without faith will not live again until this time, symbolized a thousand years were finished. IOW having lived and died without faith in Christ they shall not live again until vs 11 when the dead will be physically resurrected to stand before God at the great white throne judgment. They will be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life.
Revelation 20:4-6 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
John is NOT telling us the first resurrection will be physical and will be after one thousand years after the return of Christ. John is showing us the first resurrection is NOT physical but spiritual. The rest of the dead never have part in the first resurrection because they died in unbelief. To be part of the first resurrection they would have to belong to the group of living souls in heaven that are physically dead, but spiritually alive with Christ, because they died in faith.
The martyred saints are of the first resurrection because after His death and resurrection Christ took them from the bondage of death they were held in and they went with Him as He ascended to heaven. Through His Spirit in them these saints, like all saints must be sealed through His Spirit for life.
Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Since Christ sent His Spirit to be in whosoever is of faith in Christ, we too ascend to heaven a spiritual body or living soul after our bodies have died.
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The earliest ones were all Premill. Amill didn't exist unti, the 3rd century and it came from the RCC. No surprise then that the first identified Amill was Catholic, and was involved in trying to block the book of Rev from canonization. That is because it is Premill.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Well amil were the first date setters claiming a return after the thousand years were up. Then after 1030 or whenever, they had to switch from a literal thousand years to an indefinite 1,000 years. If Revelation 20 is even the time that is declared up? Some people have gone out of their way to prove that Amil always taught the thousand years already started at the Cross. Even since Augustine lived on the earth.
Seems the mystery of the prophets and the time up would be Daniel's 70 weeks. That contains more of the mystery your NT verses are talking about than Revelation 20.
There is no mystery in ruling and reigning with Christ. Yet you all have determined Daniel's 70 weeks were over in the first century. So then that would mean the mystery was solved back then and that was when the 7th Trumpet sounded.
Otherwise those Orthodox Jews around the world today are still clueless and the 70 weeks have not ended, because their Messiah never sat on his throne as Prince.
You tell me what happened when the 7th Trumpet sounded?
All the kingdoms of earth became those of Jesus Christ as King. Mystery solved. Now Jesus can reign as King on earth for a thousand years. Daniel's 70 weeks were finished when Jesus was sitting on a throne in Jerusalem, and now all nations on earth will be under His authority.
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
The thousands years do not limit the reign of Christ. That is forever. The thousand years is how long Satan is not allowed to decieve those humans living on the earth, when that thousand years starts. The thousand years is given to those beheaded who reign with Christ. After that there is no more reigning with Christ. The New Jerusalem comes down and reigns over the nations. The camp of the saints surrounding old Jerusalem, and old Jerusalem itself vanished away when creation was handed back to God. The NHNE is a totally different reality altogether. Evidently, every thing is larger than what we see today, given by that literal city that comes down from where it was above the earth.
Now you all try to make those thousand years seem more symbolic than actual. So then, is symbolic time only symbolically up, or literally up? Will we just think it is up, but not really?
The mystery was the inclusion of the Gentiles. That inclusion put the last half of the 70th week on hold. The half where Jesus would sit on a throne in Jerusalem. So both the 70 weeks and the mystery is finished. Because the Second Coming brings the fulness of the Gentiles to a close at the same time Jesus sits on His throne in Jerusalem.
When the remnant of Israel is reborn and placed back as natural branches, is the same time all the nations are made natural branches. No more grafting in. All those firstfruits harvested by Jesus and the angels will inherit the earth and all will rule over their offspring for dozens of generations. There will be no more sin and death from natural causes as the curse will be lifted.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
There are no amil in Paradise. And Jesus was in Paradise when Revelation was written. That is like saying Adam and Eve were Amil, along with every one in Scripture.
How could Jesus teach about a chapter in His Word that was not written yet? So Jesus thinks that after the 7th Trumpet, He does not have to reign for a thousand years. Does He plan on disobeying Scripture?
Or better yet, did Jesus claim He would return after an indefinite period of time many would call the Millennium? Why would Jesus preach there is coming a millennial reign, but only symbolically, not a literal reign coming, because when John writes the book Revelation, he will mention a thousand years, but you can forget that it is literal, just think of it as a very long time?
Jesus was the Messiah and the Prince to come, because that is what Gabriel told Daniel. That is literally what happened. Then Jesus preceded to tell every one He would return and have a earthly kingdom. After the kingdom of God which was and is unseen is completed, and glorified in Paradise.
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations."
Again, you prove you have no understanding of Amil doctrine! "The word millennium is actually from the Latin words [mille], meaning thousand, and [annum], meaning years. In Latin, the article "a" is a negation of any word following it. Thus a-millennial literally means "no millennium," or no thousand years."
The other belief in Amil is that the Kingdom Christ came with is not a physical kingdom, but is spiritual, and not of this world, but of heaven. And this Kingdom of God in heaven is where Christ reigns from and has been reigning over since His ascension to heaven after His resurrection.
Do you reply in these forums to show how smart you are? If you do, believe me you have not accomplished your purpose. You make the most ridiculous statements of things you have no understanding of, proving you lack discernment. I'm giving you a link that gives a pretty good definition and understanding of Amil doctrine. If you want to dispute Amil doctrine, the very least you can do is know what the doctrine teaches. You speak without understanding not only against Amil doctrine, but also many other biblical truths. You prove this in almost every one of your posts here.
What Does Amillennial Mean
Reformed article concerning, what does the theological term Amillennial mean. Is it the teaching that there is no Millennial reign of Christ? by Tony Warren
www.mountainretreatorg.net
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LOL! I wouldn't tab Jesus as an amillennialist, but rather God, the second Person of the triune Jehovah.
However... Jesus did say to His disciples (and us by extension) ~ as quoted by John in his gospel ~ "In the world you..." (so, we) "...will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33).
Our lives are certainly filled with trials of all kinds and sizes, and will be until Jesus returns... when God's millennium, the "thousand years," is/are over (Revelation 20:1-6).
But because of God's presence with us ~ in the Person of the Holy Spirit and with Christ in the Spirit ~ we can, as James says, count it all joy, my brothers, when we meet trials of various kinds, because we know that God is at work in each of us and we know the outcome is certain; we know that the testing of our faith produces steadfastness, and can be certain that this steadfastness have its full effect, that we may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing (James 1:2-3).
This is God's very present and ongoing work in us, and He will bring it to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6).
Grace and peace to all.
However... Jesus did say to His disciples (and us by extension) ~ as quoted by John in his gospel ~ "In the world you..." (so, we) "...will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33).
Our lives are certainly filled with trials of all kinds and sizes, and will be until Jesus returns... when God's millennium, the "thousand years," is/are over (Revelation 20:1-6).
But because of God's presence with us ~ in the Person of the Holy Spirit and with Christ in the Spirit ~ we can, as James says, count it all joy, my brothers, when we meet trials of various kinds, because we know that God is at work in each of us and we know the outcome is certain; we know that the testing of our faith produces steadfastness, and can be certain that this steadfastness have its full effect, that we may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing (James 1:2-3).
This is God's very present and ongoing work in us, and He will bring it to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6).
Grace and peace to all.
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
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