The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Always Believing]

So, Satan takes over after your future millennium and reigns for a season in your theory as Jesus and the glorified saints watch on helplessly? What a bust. What a disaster.

And talk about a disastrous reign and rule on earth. It's the one you claim to be ruling over with Christ now.

If this world today is the mess you preach for Millennialism, then thank God your millennialism isn't Christ's.

And you'll be the one standing by hopelessly watching the christ you think will be Jesus come again on earth.

 

[Always Believing]

Genesis 28
4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.

Isaac declared that God gave the land to Abraham.

Since Abraham was a person, God gave it to him personally.

This is a fair challenge, thanks. You're now in a minority select group of people that actually refer to Scripture as written to prove an argument. Congratulations.

There are 2 distinct problems here:

1. The land promised was not the land dwelt on by Abraham and Jacob and Isaac. The borders of that land were not owned at all by any child of Abraham until David conquered it, and was followed up on by Solomon.

2. If the land were owned as possession by Abraham and Isaac, and Jacob, then he would not have been called a stranger in that land. Neither would Isaac be speaking of that land as something Jacob may inherit.

3. The land promised was not owned in possession, until David's Kingdom. Nor was it owned in possession by Abraham, who had to buy a field from the sons of Heth, in that land promised, in order to bury Sarah there, as well as be buried there himself.

4. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise.

Neither he, nor Isaac, nor Jacob were given any of that land for possession.

Therefore, Jacob's words were of prophecy, that God would surely keep His promise to Abraham, so that He could speak of it today by faith, as it were past tense.

Joshua 21
43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers...

He gave it to them to take. And they did not take all of it as promised, until David.

They couldn't have taken it if God hadn't given it to them.

They couldn't have taken it if God hadn't given it to them to take.

And it was still a promise sworn to them at the time, but was not yet their possession.

But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.

Abraham was a personal father, and Israel his physical seed.

You ought to recognize that God kept His promise literally.

No, you're fair challenge has been refuted. Abraham never has yet to literally possess all the land promised to him by His personal Friend God.

We must believe all Scripture as written, to know that God does keep all His promises, and will give all that land to Abraham for possession during at the outset of His Millennial reign.

Explicitly and specifically confirmed in Nehemiah 9:7-8:
"...madest a covenant with him to give the land to his seed...and hast performed thy words;"

Another fair challenge, and well done. However, in light of the seed of Abraham never possessing the whole land until David, this confirms that His words were only performed with David, and certainly not yet for Abraham personally.

 

[Always Believing]

Jesus rules know and forever In his kingdom, the one thing that will change is he's going to pick the weeds out of his garden and burn them in the fire at his return

That's already been happening by the grave since Cain.

There will be Christians not resurrected to reign and rule with Him over all nations. Amils that hate such a thought will no doubt not be included.

 

[Always Believing]

I am calling out the debacle that your theology produces and you do not like it. The reality is: this is all fiction. Jesus is victoriously reigning over all creation now, and Satan, his followers nor you or your mistaken theology will ever dethrone Him.

I won't be dethroning the christ that makes fire come down from heaven in your sight. Jesus will do it first thing at the start of His millennial rule over the earth.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[WPM]

Once Jesus delivers up His millennial kingdom to the Father, then He allows Satan one last round up on earth, and destroys them with fire of God out of heaven.

All His enemies are now destroyed on earth, and the last enemy death is destroyed after the old heaven and earth flee from His face on the throne.

Not true. The kingdom is handed up at the second coming. You are 100 years too late. You are gerrymandering Scripture to support your non-corroborative error. Paul confirms the finality of the return of Jesus, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming [Gr. parousia]. Then cometh the end [Gr. telos], when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Please note the careful correlation between the parousia and the telos. This is a truth that is found throughout the NT. They are synonymous with each other. There is absolutely nothing that Premillennialists can do with such a clear and climactic passage apart from deny the obvious or add unto Scripture by inserting “a thousand years” in-between the coming (parousia) of Christ and the end (telos) where it does not belong. This is the dilemma for Premil throughout the Word. They are fighting the obvious.

The Greek simply reads:

Christos – Christ
en – at
autos – His
parousia – coming
eita – then
telos – the end

The coming of the Lord is shown to be the end of the world. There is no gap of time in-between the coming of Christ, the resurrection and the end. They all belong to the one final climactic overall event.

The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit. This is what happens to the kingdom when Christ comes. He surrenders it to His Father, He yields it up.

The converse phrase “he shall have put down” comes from the single Greek word katargeo meaning: bring to nought, none effect, or abolish. This is what happens to “all” existing “rule and all authority and power” when Jesus Comes. The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.

 

[Always Believing]

Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them,

And when do the rest of the dead come back to life?

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Yes at the great white throne judgement which is after the thousand year binding ends when satan is released then his final assault on the church and his defeat.

This is all true, except the last.

They surround the beloved city and camp of the saints. It doesn't say anyone is home.

Especially since it's not possible to surround and put on the defensive any citizens of the King on earth. And certainly not His resurrected saints ruling with Him. The only way Satan is allowed to gather up people again on earth, after the Lord's return to earth, will be after His rule on earth is expired.

The only time any man rules with Christ, is on earth. There are no priests and kings ruling beside Him in heaven, nor on the new earth from New Jerusalem.

 

[Always Believing]

What do you think will happen when the thousand years ends? Do you think Jesus will still be on the earth during Satan's little season? If so, what do you think He will be doing during that time?

I'm sure He'll be watching them, to send fire of God to consume them in a moment, once they finally all get gathered together in one place on earth.

Such men seeking to make war with the Lord and His people, will never learn from Pharaoh in the Red Sea bed, nor from the armies around Armageddon.

 

[Truth7t7]

Amils that hate such a thought will no doubt not be included.

Believe as you do or you don't get to be with Jesus, that's mean!

Big Smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Always Believing]

Please note the careful correlation between the parousia and the telos.

I always note your careful correlations are calculated twisting of Scripture.

The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit.

True. All those yielding to Christ during His millennial reign, will be delivered unto the Father and hound to be written in the Lamb's book of life..

The rest of the wicked dead will include all them destroyed by fire of God on earth after His Millennium reign

The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.

Absolutely, which is all the prophecies of old, that the Lord Himself would come and rule the nations by His law.

It's what the Jews expected the first time, and so they did not receive Him as the man of God to deliver them from sins and trespasses.

Neither He nor you are now ruling the nations with rod of iron. If you think you are, then try telling that to any neighbor of yours.

This world still lying in wickedness with wicked rulers is the proof that His millennial rule is not yet come.

 

[WPM]

I always note your careful correlations are calculated twisting of Scripture.


True. All those yielding to Christ during His millennial reign, will be delivered unto the Father and hound to be written in the Lamb's book of life..

The rest of the wicked dead will include all them destroyed by fire of God on earth after His Millennium reign


Absolutely, which is all the prophecies of old, that the Lord Himself would come and rule the nations by His law.

It's what the Jews expected the first time, and so they did not receive Him as the man of God to deliver them from sins and trespasses.

Neither He nor you are now ruling the nations with rod of iron. If you think you are, then try telling that to any neighbor of yours.

This world still lying in wickedness with wicked rulers is the proof that His millennial rule is not yet come.

It is abundantly clear that you have a fixation with Revelation 20. You make the rest of the Bible fit into your faulty opinion of that highly symbolic chapter. That causes you to insert 1000 years in passage after passage where it does not belong. The reality is, every second coming passage is climatic. It is the end. Your main battle is with the Scripture, not Amils.

I always note your careful correlations are calculated twisting of Scripture.


True. All those yielding to Christ during His millennial reign, will be delivered unto the Father and hound to be written in the Lamb's book of life..

The rest of the wicked dead will include all them destroyed by fire of God on earth after His Millennium reign


Absolutely, which is all the prophecies of old, that the Lord Himself would come and rule the nations by His law.

It's what the Jews expected the first time, and so they did not receive Him as the man of God to deliver them from sins and trespasses.

Neither He nor you are now ruling the nations with rod of iron. If you think you are, then try telling that to any neighbor of yours.

This world still lying in wickedness with wicked rulers is the proof that His millennial rule is not yet come.

Jesus delivers up the kingdom to His Father is at the end of the age/world when He returns. Jesus caught in Matthew 13:40-43: “As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end [Gr. sunteleia] of this world (or age). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

Matthew 13:40-43 corresponds with 1 Corinthians 15:22-24. They prove that the glory and fullness of the kingdom is experienced by God’s elect at the second coming. Both of these passages show that Jesus will return at “the end.” The Greek word used in Matthew 13:40 for “the end” is sunteleia meaning the entire completion or consummation of a dispensation. The word telos is coupled with and prefixed to the popular Greek word sun (Strong’s 4862) – denoting union and togetherness. The word carries the overall meaning of the entire end. What is more, the fact that the kingdom is called “the kingdom of their Father” at the end of the world/age tells us that the kingdom has been finally and eternally delivered up to the Father.

The Apostle Paul instructs the believer in 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 to “come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming [Gr. parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end [Gr. telos], that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

No one can dispute that that he coming of the Lord is connected here to “the end.” We can see here how the phrases “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,” “the day of our Lord Jesus Christ” and “the end” are depicted as synonymous. The second coming is depicted throughout the Word as a climactic event that ushers in the conclusion of time. Within this teaching is a comforting promise for every child of God that that Christ shall “confirm” or establish or secure us “unto the end.”

When Christ comes the gifts will be rendered unnecessary. They will be obsolete. We shall then be perfected and will have no need to operate in any gift. Christ will be all-in-all.

In Matthew 24, Jerusalem was on the cusp of experiencing utter destruction, including the removal of their temple (the center of their religious worship). Moreover, that loss would remain in place from its demolition right up until the second coming of the Lord. The disciples asked two questions in Matthew 24 as they stood in front of the still-standing temple complex.

Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign of thy coming [Gr. parousia], and of the end [Gr. sunteleías or completion, or consummation] of the world [Gr. aion]?”

The word telos, used in 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 and 15:24, is also found in the above passage being coupled to, and prefixed with, the popular Greek word sun (Strong’s 4862) – denoting union and togetherness. The word carries the overall meaning of the entire end.

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming. Notwithstanding, there is much detail about the days that precede His return.

Premils and Preterists do not believe that “the end” refers to the actual end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It refers to the completion. It is the termination point of a thing.

When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event, then theologians universally agree it is talking about “the beginning” of time/this age/creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this, many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason probably is because it cuts across a lot of end-time theology they have been taught. However, both should be treated similarly.

Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (which is the end of the age).

Jesus response to His disciples in Matthew 24:6 and 13-14 is notable: “ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end [Gr. telos] is not yet ... But he that shall endure unto the end [Gr. telos], the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end [Gr. telos] come.”

“The end of the age” is normally described as “the end.” Those that endure to the end are promised a glorious reward. The true child of God will persevere to the end because that is his nature. The false professor will not.

The redeemed will be on earth right up until the end where they will be rewarded by being given power over the nations. This is the great and final judgment where Christ pores out final and eternal justice.

 

[Always Believing]

Believe as you do or you don't get to be with Jesus, that's mean!

Don't cry.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm sure He'll be watching them, to send fire of God to consume them in a moment, once they finally all get gathered together in one place on earth.

How exactly will people from all over the world who number "as the sand of the sea" gather together in one place? That isn't reasonable at all. You're missing that it's figurative language describing opposition against the church throughout the world. The idea that a huge number of people "as the sand of the sea" from all over the world will somehow literally gather together in one place is completely unreasonable.

 

[ewq1938]

56. Is the thousand year rule over the nations of Revelation 20 not mentioned in other areas of the bible?

The 1000 year rule is mentioned in various parts of the bible, in various ways, usually describing events that take place during it such as found at the end of Revelation 2, Daniel 7:11-12, Daniel 7:23-26, Isaiah 2:2-4, 24:21-23, Zechariah 14:16 etc. Even Amillennialism teaches that Christ spoke of Revelation 20's binding when he spoke of the strong man being bound.


Revelation contains information no other part of the bible does such as the making of the image of the beast and making it come alive and talk, the mark of the beast, the false prophet, the seven seals, seven trumps and seven vials, ascension of the two prophets, the 42 months of the beast, the war in heaven, 600 and 60 and 6 (666), the sealing of the 144k, the bloody winepress, Armageddon, the harlot Babylon, new Jerusalem coming from heaven, a new fruit every month from the tree of life in the eternity etc.

Amillennialism doesn't ask for corroboration of those things yet questions the thousand years quite often.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

56. Is the thousand year rule over the nations of Revelation 20 not mentioned in other areas of the bible?

The 1000 year rule is mentioned in various parts of the bible, in various ways, usually describing events that take place during it such as found at the end of Revelation 2, Daniel 7:11-12, Daniel 7:23-26, Isaiah 2:2-4, 24:21-23, Zechariah 14:16 etc.

The problem is with how you interpret passages like those. For example, Isaiah 2:2-4. That passage is about "the last days". According to New Testament scripture, the last days generally refer to the New Testament era. It was the last days already on the day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:16-21) and we know the last days lead up to the second coming of Christ (2 Peter 3:3-4). So, to apply the last days (via Isaiah 2:2-4) to a time period after the return of Christ when scripture applies it to a time period leading up to His return just shows how Premils take so much scripture out of context.

And then there's Zechariah 14:16. To believe that Zechariah 14:16-21 should be taken literally to apply to a time period after Christ's return means that animal sacrifices would have to be reinstated. That is absurd. That will never happen. Taking scripture in context while avoiding contradicting other scripture is not something that Premils seem to care much about.

Even Amillennialism teaches that Christ spoke of Revelation 20's binding when he spoke of the strong man being bound.

We believe that every aspect of Revelation 20 is referenced elsewhere in scripture as well including Christ's reign, Satan's binding, Satan's little season, the resurrection of the dead and the judgment.

Revelation contains information no other part of the bible does such as the making of the image of the beast and making it come alive and talk, the mark of the beast, the false prophet, the seven seals, seven trumps and seven vials, ascension of the two prophets, the 42 months of the beast, the war in heaven, 600 and 60 and 6 (666), the sealing of the 144k, the bloody winepress, Armageddon, the harlot Babylon, new Jerusalem coming from heaven, a new fruit every month from the tree of life in the eternity etc.

Amillennialism doesn't ask for corroboration of those things yet questions the thousand years quite often.

We're talking about Revelation 20 in particular here, though. As I already indicated, the other things referenced in Revelation 20 are also referenced in other parts of scripture, so why not the thousand years as well? It's a reasonable question.

 

[Timtofly]

And then there's Zechariah 14:16. To believe that Zechariah 14:16-21 should be taken literally to apply to a time period after Christ's return means that animal sacrifices would have to be reinstated. That is absurd. That will never happen. Taking scripture in context while avoiding contradicting other scripture is not something that Premils seem to care much about.

Where in this chapter does it claim animal sacrifices are established?

Do you not celebrate Easter? Does that mean the Cross happens over and over again each year at Easter?

Do you not make sacrifices in life when your will is at odds with God's will?

You have this weird way of making up excuses and planting them in Scripture where they don't belong.

Jesus did not rearrange the geographical landscape of Palestine in the first century, and this is not some spiritual metaphor. Do you not comprehend the destruction of earth at the Second Coming where all the mountains and continents are moved out of their places? That the landscape of Israel changes is a sure thing and it will happen at the Second Coming, because Jesus returns to the same location and in the same manner as He left.

"Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,"

"Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet."

Jesus left from the mount of Olives, and will return to the same spot as prophecied both in the OT and NT.

This is not even Revelation 19. In Revelation 19 Jesus returns on a white horse. For as much as you all make up stuff, Jesus left on a white horse 42 months prior to Armageddon, and returns the same way He left. Sometime in between returning on foot, at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, and the 7th Trumpet, Jesus acquired a white horse, which was not burned up at the Second Coming, and must have used it quite a lot during the Trumpets and Thunders. Remember all man's works were burned up, so no cars, trains, planes, nor ships. Only horses.

I mean how can horses currently have bodies in heaven, if humans are not allowed to by many posters here? Are horses part of the resurrection process? They are burned up and immediately brought back to life?

 

[Always Believing]

How exactly will people from all over the world who number "as the sand of the sea" gather together in one place? That isn't reasonable at all.

Now you've got it. Only the armies gathered from among the nations for war from will be in Judea around armageddon.

You're missing that it's figurative language describing opposition against the church throughout the world.

The only7 thing figurative is your pseudo-millennial reign, that you are spiritually enjoying in the legend of your own mind.

How is it up there in heaven these days? I'm still waiting for one of your ruled angels to come tell me how great you are. A figurative one will do.

You're docetic reign is as real as the docetic christ.

The idea that a huge number of people "as the sand of the sea" from all over the world will somehow literally gather together in one place is completely unreasonable.

Unless it's all the nations left after the warfare.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is the problem when people dictate what God can and cannot do with His nations and people and earth. They make His word and Himself too figurative to be real.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Now you've got it. Only the armies gathered from among the nations for war from will be in Judea around armageddon.

We were talking about Revelation 20:7-9. Where does it say there that those who number "as the sand of the sea" are "only the armies gathered among the nations for war"?

The only7 thing figurative is your pseudo-millennial reign, that you are spiritually enjoying in the legend of your own mind.

How is it up there in heaven these days?

I don't claim to be in heaven. Do you have anything to offer besides straw man arguments? Apparently not.

I'm still waiting for one of your ruled angels to come tell me how great you are. A figurative one will do.

I don't claim to rule over angels. Again, do you have anything to offer besides straw man arguments? Do you have anything to refute what I believe? Apparently not. It seems that you only have something to refute what your imaginary straw man believes.

 

[Always Believing]

We were talking about Revelation 20:7-9. Where does it say there that those who number "as the sand of the sea" are "only the armies gathered among the nations for war"?

Since your skipping ahead to Gog and Magog, then your question doesn't apply to the armies in Judea.

I don't claim to be in heaven. Do you have anything to offer besides straw man arguments? Apparently not.

Then how in the world are you reigning in heaven? You are claiming to be reigning over earth, are you also not on earth?

Someone obviously needs to find out exactly where they are reigning from.

I don't claim to rule over angels.

That's because you don't reign with Christ in heaven, who does rule over the angels.

Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Again, do you have anything to offer besides straw man arguments? Do you have anything to refute what I believe? Apparently not. It seems that you only have something to refute what your imaginary straw man believes.

Since you acknowledge you are not reigning with Christ in heaven now, then I won't be asking you to send any angels down, to tell me you do.

I don't ask Jesus to send any angels, because I believe Scripture and know that He is reigning in heaven.

I just never believed you, when you used to claim to have part in reigning with Him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then how in the world are you reigning in heaven?

I never said that I'm reigning in heaven, you silly goose.

You are claiming to be reigning over earth, are you also not on earth?

Of course I'm on earth. Are you?

Someone obviously needs to find out exactly where they are reigning from.

That's because you don't reign with Christ in heaven, who does rule over the angels.

I didn't say that I reign with Christ in heaven. I'm not in heaven, I'm on earth. I reign with Him here. Why don't you pay attention to what I actually say and believe instead of making things up? I believe the souls of the dead in Christ reign with Him in heaven.

Since you acknowledge you are not reigning with Christ in heaven now, then I won't be asking you to send any angels down, to tell me you do.

You should have never said that in the first place since I never said I was reigning with Christ in heaven. I believe the souls of those who are physically dead in Christ that John saw are reigning with Christ in heaven.

I don't ask Jesus to send any angels, because I believe Scripture and know that He is reigning in heaven.

He also reigns in the hearts of His believers on earth. If you don't believe that then you are sadly mistaken and clearly don't have any understanding of spiritual things.

I just never believed you, when you used to claim to have part in reigning with Him.

I claim that now. What you don't understand is that He not only reigns in heaven but on earth as well because He dwells in the hearts of His believers. I never claimed that I reign with Him in heaven. You apparently have very poor reading comprehension skills.

 

[David in NJ]

Once again that’s the thousand year binding not the reigning. Revelation 20:5 shows us when the thousand year reigning ends at the end of our world on the resurrection day

You have it backwards.


a.) The Second Coming of Christ is the First Resurrection whereby the literal 1,000 years of Ruling with Christ begins on earth.

b.) Satan is locked up and a seal placed on him/his location whereby he is unable to exert his deception upon the nations during this literal 1,000 years.

c.) The literal 1,000 years are finished/completed and Satan is lossed "a little while" for the Final Judgment and GWT.