The messiah didn't come yet.

[Eliyahu613]

WHEN GOD spoke ABRAHAM BELIEVED YHWH
GOD TESTIFIED ON HIS SON CHRIST JESUS

Bs"d

The logic of the above statement totally eludes me. Please explain.

 

[MonoBiblical]

he is worshiped.

In the NT, he is not worshipped in any divine sense, at the very least.

 

[MonoBiblical]

for many anti christs now abound .
WHO is a liar , but he who denies JESUS is the CHRIST , he is anti christ .
The messiah you seek to come , WRONG ONE . and by peace shall it destroy many .

As if there ever were a provable prophecy. Herod was the main ante-christ/ante-messiah, and there is only one prediction unfinished in Revelation.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Bs"d

The messiah hasn't come yet.

For the finer details look here: [removed]

Oh Aaron and David have already come. And so has Saul the King.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Bs"d

If somebody claims to be the messiah, then he has to fulfill the messianic prophecies. If he doesn't do that, then we know he was not the messiah.

After all, everybody can claim he is the messiah.

There have been so many false messiahs already.....

And your messiah didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies, therefore he was not the messiah.

It is impossible to fulfill past prophecies which have happened, and psuedo-prophecies which don't happen.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Bs"d

There are no prophecies in the Tanach that the messiah would die and be raised from the dead.

There was, and you cannot prove the negative case.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Bs"d

In the whole Tanach is no divine messiah to be found.

We are looking for a messiah who is going to fulfill the messianic prophecies.

So far nobody did that yet.

In the whole of the Greek NT, there is not a divine messiah to be found, except Revelation, and even then, it isn't the most high.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Bs"d

Why do you think that God said that JC was the messiah?

Christianity needed a miracle to even exist.

 

[MonoBiblical]

If you want to see this as a messianic prophecy, then you can add another one to the unfulfilled messianic prophecies, because JC's enemies were not made into his footstool.

The Romans didn't have a slaughter?

 

[Eliyahu613]

There was, and you cannot prove the negative case.

Bs"d

So show me where the prophecies that the messiah is going to die and be resurrected.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Bs"d

So show me where the prophecies that the messiah is going to die and be resurrected.

It is in the New Testament. Thus, you can't ever disprove J-man's flesh resurrection. We can say it was a good thing, and that your barkochbas/failed messiah didn't need this prophecy. You don't have any prediction that have come true after Rome's first war with Israel, or perhaps just Judah.

{Luk 24:46 NASB95}
"and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,"
ὅτι Οὕτως γέγραπται καὶ οὕτως ἔδει παθεῖν τὸν Χριστὸν καὶ ἀναστῆναι ἐκ νεκρῶν τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ

 

[LoveYeshua]

Bs"d

Why do you call discussing an important theological subject "trolling"?

yes it is an important subject the most important, did you read Matthew, Luke John and mark. compare the prophecies and the writings of these books and see, until you read them with an open heart you shall Never know the truth. historians jesepjus and others can corroborate so can I.

 

[Wrangler]

I’m curious what @Bombastic thinks of this thread topic?

 

[LoveYeshua]

Bs"d

The second prophecy there is this: "Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.Micah 5:2"

Here is the messianic prophecy of Mica 5:

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

So the messianic prophecy of Mica 5 is obviously NOT fulfilled by JC.

No, that conclusion is not required by the text. It comes from reading the entire prophecy as if every part had to happen at the Messiah's first appearance. The Old Testament often combines events that are fulfilled at different times. Jesus Himself recognized this pattern.

For example, in Isaiah 61:1-2, Jesus read only the part about preaching good news and stopped before the words about "the day of vengeance of our God" because that part belongs to His future coming (Luke 4:16-21). So a single prophecy can contain both the first and second coming of the Messiah.

Micah 5 is another example.

The first part is unquestionably about the Messiah:

But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. (Micah 5:2, ASV)

Even the Jewish religious leaders understood this as a prophecy of the Messiah. When Herod asked where the Christ would be born, they answered by quoting Micah 5:2. they knew it then so should you!

And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written through the prophet... (Matthew 2:5-6, ASV)

So the New Testament did not invent this interpretation. It was already the accepted Jewish understanding.

The objection says that the Messiah was supposed to be a political ruler rather than a preacher. But Micah simply says He will be "ruler in Israel." It does not say He must begin His reign immediately after His birth.

Jesus openly declared that He is a King.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight... but now is my kingdom not from hence... Thou sayest that I am a king. (John 18:36-37, ASV)

Notice that Jesus does not deny being King. He explains that His kingdom is not established in the same way as earthly kingdoms.

The prophecy also says:

And he shall stand, and shall feed his flock in the strength of Jehovah... (Micah 5:4, ASV)

This perfectly matches Jesus' own description of Himself.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep. (John 10:11, ASV)

The prophecy continues:

For now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. (Micah 5:4, ASV)

This is remarkable because, at the time Micah wrote, Israel's kings never ruled "unto the ends of the earth." Yet today Jesus is known throughout the world, exactly as the prophecy says.

The difficult part is verses 5-9, where Assyria is defeated and Israel's enemies are destroyed.

This is where many people make a mistake by assuming everything belongs to one moment in history.

Jesus repeatedly taught that His return will bring judgment on the nations.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory... before him shall be gathered all the nations... (Matthew 25:31-32, ASV)

And:

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling... and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. (Matthew 13:41-42, ASV)

The Old Testament prophets often saw the Messiah's work as one continuous picture without distinguishing between His first and second coming. From their viewpoint, the mountain peaks appear together, even though valleys lie between them.

Another point is that "Assyria" itself may represent more than the ancient empire. The prophets often use historical enemies as symbols of future hostile powers. Even if one takes Assyria literally, the prophecy still speaks of future events connected with the Messiah's reign.

The claim also says Jesus was "only a wandering preacher and miracle healer." That ignores what Jesus actually claimed.

He claimed authority to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-12).

He claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8).

He claimed all authority would be given to Him.

All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. (Matthew 28:18, ASV)

He accepted being called the Christ and the King.

He promised to return in glory.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (Luke 21:27, ASV)

The prophets also foretold that the Messiah would first suffer before entering His glory.

Jesus explained this Himself after His resurrection.

Behooved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory? (Luke 24:26, ASV)

Then He explained that this had been written throughout the Scriptures.

And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27, ASV)

This is important because it shows that the suffering Messiah and the reigning Messiah are the same person.

So Micah 5 is not a failed prophecy. It contains elements fulfilled at Christ's first coming, such as His birth in Bethlehem, His role as the Shepherd, and His greatness reaching the ends of the earth, along with elements that belong to His future reign, when He returns to judge the nations and establish His kingdom in its fullness. Jesus Himself taught that His mission unfolds in these two stages, and this pattern appears throughout the prophets.

 

[amigo de christo]

At the time, the term was Israelite.

whatever the t erm was
An anti christ is an anti christ . And upon my watch
a lie will not be allowed to remain but rather exposed .
For if he who cometh preaches any other gospel , THAT DUDE getting rebuked sharply
and all anti christ doctrine exposed . So now that this is cleared up
Allow a question .
WHO is a liar , HE who denies JESUS IS THE MESSIAH , HE is anti christ .
The apostels and their doctrine IS the doctrine of the CHRIST OF GOD , and the CHRIST of GOD
is MY CHRIST . all ecumeincalism will be exposed as well for it is leading all to the very lie
by which all false religoins and the lost within christendom will buy and shall be damned .
IT Must be exposed . No matter the cost to me , IT MUST be exposed and will be exposed on my watch .
Thanks for understanding .

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m curious what @Bombastic thinks of this thread topic?

what do YOU think about it . As for me its of anti christ and upon that i have zero doubt .
DENYING JESUS IS THE MESSIAH . ONLY ANTI CHRIST Would do that .

 

[amigo de christo]

Bs"d

The logic of the above statement totally eludes me. Please explain.

well i wont be asking at all what bs d means . I have a hunch t hough could be wrong .
As for HOW does one truly know the Believe the prophets , even beleived moses
and the torah . WELL it points to JESUS THE CHRIST .
SO if they had beleived moses , if they had the faith of abraham
THEY HAD BELIEVED JESUS for he came forth OF GOD .
but if ye wont beleive his words , and their words , you darn sure aint gonna beleive me
though i speak clearly and point YOU to HE whose day Abraham had seen and rejoiced
and HE who moses spoke of as did the other prophets point too .
IF YE HEAR NOT the LAW you will never be convinced though ONE did rise FROM the dead .
But you go and learn what that means .
HE who is of the TRUTH hears HIS VOICE .
For this cause was HE born and for this cause came HE into the world
TO TEST IFY of THE TRUTH . ALL who are of the TRUTH come to HIM . not budda , not some muahmmed anti christ allah
not to UNBELIF .
Truly i do type unto you the words of TRUTH .
JESUS not only knew the truth , not only giveth life
HE IS THE TRUTH , HE IS THE LIFE and no man cometh unto the FATHER but by Him .

 

[amigo de christo]

No, that conclusion is not required by the text. It comes from reading the entire prophecy as if every part had to happen at the Messiah's first appearance. The Old Testament often combines events that are fulfilled at different times. Jesus Himself recognized this pattern.

For example, in Isaiah 61:1-2, Jesus read only the part about preaching good news and stopped before the words about "the day of vengeance of our God" because that part belongs to His future coming (Luke 4:16-21). So a single prophecy can contain both the first and second coming of the Messiah.

Micah 5 is another example.

The first part is unquestionably about the Messiah:

But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. (Micah 5:2, ASV)

Even the Jewish religious leaders understood this as a prophecy of the Messiah. When Herod asked where the Christ would be born, they answered by quoting Micah 5:2. they knew it then so should you!

And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written through the prophet... (Matthew 2:5-6, ASV)

So the New Testament did not invent this interpretation. It was already the accepted Jewish understanding.

The objection says that the Messiah was supposed to be a political ruler rather than a preacher. But Micah simply says He will be "ruler in Israel." It does not say He must begin His reign immediately after His birth.

Jesus openly declared that He is a King.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight... but now is my kingdom not from hence... Thou sayest that I am a king. (John 18:36-37, ASV)

Notice that Jesus does not deny being King. He explains that His kingdom is not established in the same way as earthly kingdoms.

The prophecy also says:

And he shall stand, and shall feed his flock in the strength of Jehovah... (Micah 5:4, ASV)

This perfectly matches Jesus' own description of Himself.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep. (John 10:11, ASV)

The prophecy continues:

For now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. (Micah 5:4, ASV)

This is remarkable because, at the time Micah wrote, Israel's kings never ruled "unto the ends of the earth." Yet today Jesus is known throughout the world, exactly as the prophecy says.

The difficult part is verses 5-9, where Assyria is defeated and Israel's enemies are destroyed.

This is where many people make a mistake by assuming everything belongs to one moment in history.

Jesus repeatedly taught that His return will bring judgment on the nations.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory... before him shall be gathered all the nations... (Matthew 25:31-32, ASV)

And:

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling... and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. (Matthew 13:41-42, ASV)

The Old Testament prophets often saw the Messiah's work as one continuous picture without distinguishing between His first and second coming. From their viewpoint, the mountain peaks appear together, even though valleys lie between them.

Another point is that "Assyria" itself may represent more than the ancient empire. The prophets often use historical enemies as symbols of future hostile powers. Even if one takes Assyria literally, the prophecy still speaks of future events connected with the Messiah's reign.

The claim also says Jesus was "only a wandering preacher and miracle healer." That ignores what Jesus actually claimed.

He claimed authority to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-12).

He claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8).

He claimed all authority would be given to Him.

All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. (Matthew 28:18, ASV)

He accepted being called the Christ and the King.

He promised to return in glory.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (Luke 21:27, ASV)

The prophets also foretold that the Messiah would first suffer before entering His glory.

Jesus explained this Himself after His resurrection.

Behooved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory? (Luke 24:26, ASV)

Then He explained that this had been written throughout the Scriptures.

And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27, ASV)

This is important because it shows that the suffering Messiah and the reigning Messiah are the same person.

So Micah 5 is not a failed prophecy. It contains elements fulfilled at Christ's first coming, such as His birth in Bethlehem, His role as the Shepherd, and His greatness reaching the ends of the earth, along with elements that belong to His future reign, when He returns to judge the nations and establish His kingdom in its fullness. Jesus Himself taught that His mission unfolds in these two stages, and this pattern appears throughout the prophets.

So lovely it is when one points to THE CHRIST OF GOD ALL MIGHTY , JESUS THE MESSIAH .
And now i leave us with his own words .
FOR this cause came i into the world and for this reason was i born
TO TESTIFY OF THE TRUTH , all who are of THE TRUTH come to me .
IF they hear not the law , if they hear not the prophets , THEY will not be convinced though one rose FROM the dead .
EVEN abraham rejoiced to see HIS day , HE saw it and was g lad .
EVEN MOSES spoke of him as did the other prophets . Even the very law points to Christ .
But many cannot hear the law for the veil is upon their heart . And the blind cannot lead the blind
for both shall fall into the ditch .
JESUS spoke the TRUTH , the very words of the FATHER .
And HE gives life unto all who come unto HIM .
Not only does he speak truth , not only does he give life
HE IS THE TRUTH , HE IS THE LIFE , HE IS THE ONLY WAY UNTO THE FATHER .
HE is THE RESSURECITION . HE is the WORD of GOD and the Word was God .
This other fellow has about NO idea what he speaks of my friend nor what Spirit he is truly of at all .
But as for the sheep , THEY KNOW . THEY ARE THE BORN of GOD and not the flesh but of the SPIRIT .

 

[amigo de christo]

As if there ever were a provable prophecy. Herod was the main ante-christ/ante-messiah, and there is only one prediction unfinished in Revelation.

IF herod were the only anti christ
WHY DID JOHN warn the church about all them anti christs .
AND beleive you me THERE ARE MASSIVE MORE in these late and last hours .
WHO is a liar
HE who denies JESUS IS THE CHRIST , HE is anti christ . SO THERE IT IS .
I sure would not want to be in those shoes ON JESUS day either .
HE who beleives NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON
CALLS GOD A LIAR . and i darn sure dont want to be in such shoes ON HIS DAY .
You all better watch out . Many have no idea the wrath they be a heaping upon them selves on HIS day .
Time to procliam JESUS THE MESSIAH of GOD , thus Christ of GOD and all HE did teach
and later the apostels would expound upon as well .
IN other words , OPEN the bible and dont let kabbala jews be your des truction
Do not let the eucmiencal whore be your end .
SIMPLY BELIEVE GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh Aaron and David have already come. And so has Saul the King.

Yeah i sure hope that aint TRUMP you speak about . Or anyone else attached to this ecumenical intefaith .
Cause King david DARN SURE would not support anti christ . nor would arraon , heck not even king saul would .
Besides they are not here on earth .