My personal work and notes in Microsoft Excel.
And you still don't understand?
The Modern Gospel
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And you still don't understand?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I would never want to understand your intellect Johann.there is no life in it.
There is only life in the Spirit...” Spiritual life” spirit food is what I crave, not other people’s work and commentaries.
I suggest you focus more on your heart/ spirit my friend...that’s where Gods life should be in you...not other people’s work and commentaries you keep posting...
1. You're just a show-off
2. You are avoiding me by taking everything I say and studying it.
3. You say I'm Gnostic and then affirm everything I say by saying this could be taught.
Any other contradictions and inversions that I'm missing? :)
Ritajanice
Born-Again
How is he a show off?
He posts other people’s work....what good is intellectual knowledge without the Spirit?
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Johann is obviously here for an ego fix. When someone posts even 1/ 10th or less of what he posts as commentary...he calls that trying to impress, So back 10x to him. The truth is people judge others as THEY are. I can't be judged that way because I'm speaking of things so far outside their experience that they are forced to say silly things like experience of God is a bad thing...why? to preserve the ego.
If you ask them in another context where they don't "lose face" by admitting the truth...they will say that experiencing God is a good thing. It's just that they don't...and don't want to appear inadequate or less than what others are saying. All ego no truth. All hat and no cattle.
Understanding human nature is basic. The flesh seeks to preserve itself. That's how you know who is going to go directly against the cross as they accuse everyone else of doing that very thing.
Watch all the flesh-preservation antics now...
The gospel is not about preserving the flesh. It's about believing that God has something better for us as we forsake it.
"Man has to only open his heart?" Let's see what stands written.
John 1:13 (KJV)
"Which were born (ἐγεννήθησαν), not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Greek: ἐγεννήθησαν (egennēthēsan) - aorist passive indicative of γεννάω (gennaō), meaning "to be born."
John 3:3 (KJV)
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born (γεννηθῇ), he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Greek: γεννηθῇ (gennēthē) - aorist passive subjunctive of γεννάω (gennaō).
John 3:5 (KJV)
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born (γεννηθῇ) of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Greek: γεννηθῇ (gennēthē) - aorist passive subjunctive of γεννάω (gennaō).
Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Greek: σεσῳσμένοι (sesōsmenoi) - perfect passive participle of σῴζω (sōzō), meaning "to save."
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration (παλιγγενεσίας) and renewing of the Holy Ghost."
Greek: παλιγγενεσίας (palingenesias) - genitive singular of παλιγγενεσία (palingenesia), meaning "regeneration" or "new birth."
1 Peter 1:3 (KJV)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten (ἀναγεννήσας) us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
Greek: ἀναγεννήσας (anagennēsas) - aorist active participle of ἀναγεννάω (anagennaō), meaning "to beget again" or "to regenerate."
James 1:18 (KJV)
"Of his own will begat (ἀπεκύησεν) he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."
Greek: ἀπεκύησεν (apekyēsen) - aorist active indicative of ἀποκυέω (apokyēō), meaning "to bring forth" or "to give birth."
1 John 2:29 (KJV)
"If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born (γεγέννηται) of him."
Greek: γεγέννηται (gegenētai) - perfect passive indicative of γεννάω (gennaō).
1 John 5:1 (KJV)
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born (γεγεννημένος) of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."
Greek: γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos) - perfect passive participle of γεννάω (gennaō).
1 John 5:4 (KJV)
"For whatsoever is born (γεγεννημένος) of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."
Greek: γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos) - perfect passive participle of γεννάω (gennaō).
These scriptures affirm that the new birth, or being born again, is entirely the result of God's sovereign work and grace in the life of a believer. The Greek terms used emphasize the passive nature of this spiritual birth, indicating that it is something received from God rather than achieved through human effort.
Correct? Now--
Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 AD):
Justin Martyr affirmed the role of human choice in responding to God's grace. He argued that God offers salvation universally to all through Christ, and humans have the freedom to accept or reject this offer. This aligns with the idea that while God initiates salvation, individuals must respond willingly.
Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130-202 AD):
Irenaeus emphasized human free will in the context of God's overarching plan of salvation. He argued that God created humans with the ability to choose between good and evil, and through Christ's redemption, humanity is restored to the opportunity to freely choose God. This reflects a synergistic view where human will cooperates with God's grace.
Origen (c. 184-253 AD):
Origen discussed free will extensively in his theological writings. He taught that humans have the freedom to choose to follow God or to turn away. Origen also emphasized the importance of God's grace in enabling individuals to choose the good. He believed in the eventual restoration of all beings to God, emphasizing the potential for free choice throughout eternity.
Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD):
Augustine's perspective on free will evolved over his lifetime. In his early writings (e.g., "On Free Choice of the Will"), Augustine emphasized human freedom and responsibility. However, his later works, especially after his debates with Pelagius, emphasized the primacy of divine grace in salvation. Augustine taught that fallen humanity's will is enslaved to sin and cannot choose God without the prevenient grace of God's Spirit.
John Chrysostom (349-407 AD):
Chrysostom upheld human free will within the context of God's grace. He emphasized that God calls all people to salvation and gives them the ability to respond freely. Chrysostom emphasized the responsibility of individuals to cooperate with God's grace and choose to follow Christ.
In summary, the early Church Fathers generally affirmed that humans possess free will to respond to God's offer of salvation. They taught that while God initiates and enables salvation through grace, individuals have the freedom to accept or reject this grace. This perspective acknowledges both God's sovereignty in salvation and human responsibility to choose faith and obedience.
Other Reformers and Reformed Tradition:
Other Reformers and the broader Reformed tradition generally upheld similar views on human depravity and divine sovereignty in salvation. They affirmed that salvation is initiated and accomplished by God's grace alone (sola gratia) and that human free will, in its fallen state, cannot choose God or cooperate with divine grace apart from God's initiative. This theological framework contrasts with the synergistic views found in some early Church Fathers, where human free will cooperates with God's grace in the process of salvation.
Problematic, isn't it @Hepzibah? Paradoxical, tension filled and seemingly at odds--
John 6:44 (ESV)
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:65 (ESV)
"And he said, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.'"
John 10:27-29 (ESV)
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
John 12:32 (ESV)
"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
Acts 16:14 (ESV)
"One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul."
These passages highlight the foundational biblical teaching that salvation and coming to Jesus are initiated and enabled by God's drawing and granting of grace. They emphasize the sovereignty of God in the process of salvation, ensuring that it is ultimately God who calls and enables individuals to respond to His call in faith.
You agree?
J.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
They say the difference between heaven and hell is 18 inches the distinct between the mind and the heart. :)
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Correction, we can preach a sermon on righteousness, holiness and sanctification, not your version of the gospel since your "good news" is a form of Gnosticism-replete with divine experiences and visitations which reminds me that all cults started this way.
What I'm going to do is take all your podcasts and submit it to two or three brothers in Christ online to review this=Corey and Wise Disciple and see how it goes.
Should you wish, you can have a face to face discussion with these brothers and I will give you the time and date, sounds good?
I agree that the call comes from God at the time of His choosing (not prevenient grace). A man can say no - this is not Reformed theology which says that God predestines from eternity who will respond.
God calls, man answers (which is not works) and his spirit is reborn if he says yes.
But this does not happen at the outset of encountering Christ. Sanctification and justification are not separate.
No I'm not
Testing under scrutiny-dokimazo.
I don't affirm anything you say.
Will let you know.
Never said sanctification and justification are separate. They are indissolubly echad.
I believe he had a lot of things right, so did Luther and many Reformers and I am not against the writings of the early fathers either.
So that's two petals down? No I know four pointers and they don't know that their theology is now inconsistent.
I say again-I don't hold to TULIP-surprised? Besides, there were inconsistencies even from the church fathers.
The early Church Fathers, while foundational in shaping Christian theology and doctrine, were not without inconsistencies or disagreements on various theological and practical issues. Here are some notable inconsistencies among them:
Ecclesiology (Church Structure):
Cyprian of Carthage (d. 258) emphasized the unity of the Church under the authority of bishops, advocating for a hierarchical structure.
Ignatius of Antioch (d. c. 108) also supported hierarchical authority but emphasized the role of the bishop in unity with the presbyters (elders) and deacons.
Tertullian (d. c. 220), in contrast, questioned the authority of bishops and emphasized the spiritual priesthood of all believers.
Soteriology (Doctrine of Salvation):
Origen (d. c. 253) taught the eventual restoration of all beings to God (universal salvation), influenced by his allegorical interpretation of Scripture.
Augustine of Hippo (d. 430), on the other hand, developed a doctrine of predestination and emphasized the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation, which became foundational in Western Christianity.
Theology of Grace:
Pelagius (d. c. 420) emphasized human free will and argued against the concept of original sin, suggesting that humans can achieve salvation through moral effort alone.
Augustine, in response, taught that original sin has corrupted human nature to the extent that humans are unable to choose God without divine grace. This led to the development of the doctrine of "grace alone" (sola gratia) in Western Christianity.
Christology (Doctrine of Christ):
Arius (d. c. 336) taught that Jesus Christ, while divine, was a created being and not co-eternal with God the Father.
Athanasius (d. 373) vigorously opposed Arianism and argued for the full deity and co-eternality of Christ with the Father, contributing significantly to the formulation of the Nicene Creed.
Scriptural Interpretation:
Origen employed allegorical interpretation of Scripture to find deeper spiritual meanings, which sometimes led to theological speculations.
Irenaeus (d. c. 202), in contrast, emphasized a more literal interpretation of Scripture and argued for the importance of apostolic tradition in interpreting the Bible.
These inconsistencies and disagreements among the early Church Fathers reflect the diversity of thought and theological development within early Christianity. They also highlight the ongoing process of refining and articulating Christian doctrine as the Church encountered new challenges and controversies throughout its early history.
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