The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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BreadOfLife

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So you don't believe that God has given us the righteousness of Christ as a free gift, and that we have to go on trying to continue being righteous by doing what we think God will approve of? Sounds like self-righteousness to me - that righteousness that puffs works-based religious people with a puffed up "holier than thou" type of pride.

Commenting on your bold, red text:
There is the story of a preacher who left his notes in the pulpit, and the janitor found them when he was cleaning in the church. He noticed that parts of the sermon was underlined, and notes in the margin like" "Lift hand here" and "point to heaven here", etc. But there was a section heavily double underlined in red, and the margin note was: "Shout for all you're worth. Argument very weak!!!"
NOT sure where you're getting your claim in RED - but I never said this.

Anyway - we are MADE righteous in Christ before entering Heaven - we are not simply "covered" by HIS righteousness.
This was an invention of Martin Luther and his "snow-covered dunghill" fairy tale.

God is NOT an idiot and we don't "sneak" into Heaven by being "covered".
Rev. 21:27 states explicitly that NOTHING unclean or impure can enter Heaven - not even Luther's snow-covered dunghills . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You confuse omniscience with biblical foreknowledge. You will not come to truth this way
Wrong.

God HAS foreknowledge BECAUSE He is omniscient.
Because He is NOT bound by time (2 Pet. 3:8), He is at EVERY point in history - simultaneously.

NO confusion here . . .
 
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Truther

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.WRONG.

The KJV was published in 1611 - which can HARDLY be considered "ancient times", Einstein.
It was just over 400 years ago.

Besides - if you had bothered to actually READ the scholarly evidence I provided - it states emphatically that in ALL CULTURES, the phrase "in the name of" simply means "by the AUTHORITY of."

Try again . . .

400 years is ancient. Your phony modern translations are modern.
Lotta stuff and lotta changes happen in 400 years, especially in linguistics
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Wrong.

God HAS foreknowledge BECAUSE He is omniscient.
Because He is NOT bound by time (2 Pet. 3:8), He is at EVERY point in history - simultaneously.

NO confusion here . . .
No....you are wrong 100%

Romans 8 :29-30 four times it says....WHOM He did foreknow...not What He did foreknow. You do not know what you are talking about.
 

Paul Christensen

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NOT sure where you're getting your claim in RED - but I never said this.

Anyway - we are MADE righteous in Christ before entering Heaven - we are not simply "covered" by HIS righteousness.
This was an invention of Martin Luther and his "snow-covered dunghill" fairy tale.

God is NOT an idiot and we don't "sneak" into Heaven by being "covered".
Rev. 21:27 states explicitly that NOTHING unclean or impure can enter Heaven - not even Luther's snow-covered dunghills . . .
The Scripture says that Jesus was made sin for us that we become the righteousness of God in Him. This is not us being made righteous, but it is the righteousness of God bestowed on us so that God sees us through Christ. The Scripture also says, "Blessed is he whose sin is covered".

This has nothing to do with Luther, but what the Bible actually says. We will never be made righteous, because our own righteousness are as filthy rags before God. Actually, righteousness mean "acceptable to God", not some standard of holiness in us. This is where people get it wrong. They put the wrong meaning on righteousness. When we were converted to Christ, we were made totally acceptable to God in Christ - ie: because we could never be acceptable to God in ourselves, we have received that acceptability as a free gift of God through Christ's acceptability to God bestowed on us.

This is the difference between a grace-based Christian and a performance-based pseudo-christian religious person.
 

BreadOfLife

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No....you are wrong 100%

Romans 8 :29-30 four times it says....WHOM He did foreknow...not What He did foreknow. You do not know what you are talking about.
Soooo God's foreknowledge has nothing to do with his omniscience??
PROVE
it.
 

BreadOfLife

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400 years is ancient. Your phony modern translations are modern.
Lotta stuff and lotta changes happen in 400 years, especially in linguistics
WRONG.
Linguistic scholars have MORE of an understanding of ancient languages today that they did 400 years ago because they have more evidence to work with. On glaring example is the Dead Sea Scrolls, which weren't found until the 20th century.

As usual - you don't know what you're talking about . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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The Scripture says that Jesus was made sin for us that we become the righteousness of God in Him. This is not us being made righteous, but it is the righteousness of God bestowed on us so that God sees us through Christ. The Scripture also says, "Blessed is he whose sin is covered".

This has nothing to do with Luther, but what the Bible actually says. We will never be made righteous, because our own righteousness are as filthy rags before God. Actually, righteousness mean "acceptable to God", not some standard of holiness in us. This is where people get it wrong. They put the wrong meaning on righteousness. When we were converted to Christ, we were made totally acceptable to God in Christ - ie: because we could never be acceptable to God in ourselves, we have received that acceptability as a free gift of God through Christ's acceptability to God bestowed on us.

This is the difference between a grace-based Christian and a performance-based pseudo-christian religious person.
THANK YOU for proving my point.
2 Cor. 5:21
He made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might BECOME the righteousness of God.

We are not simply "covered" by the righteousness of Christ as Luther FALSELY claimed.
We are MADE righteous. We BECOME righteous before entering Heaven.
 

BreadOfLife

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Two different things.
Related but different. Do you study the bible?
Yes, they ARE related because simple logic should tell you that an omniscient God would have foreknowledge of everything.

NOT really understanding your bizarre objection.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Yes, they ARE related because simple logic should tell you that an omniscient God would have foreknowledge of everything.

NOT really understanding your bizarre objection.
Let me try to give an example in the gospels Joseph knew not Mary until after the birth of Jesus. What do you think that meant that he knew not Mary did he not know who she was what do you think the word to know has a different meaning
 

Truther

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WRONG.
Linguistic scholars have MORE of an understanding of ancient languages today that they did 400 years ago because they have more evidence to work with. On glaring example is the Dead Sea Scrolls, which weren't found until the 20th century.

As usual - you don't know what you're talking about . . .
That’s silly.
I bet you are of the persuasion that thinks Egyptian hieroglyphs are better understood today than by the Ancient Egyptians.
Lol
 

BreadOfLife

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Let me try to give an example in the gospels Joseph knew not Mary until after the birth of Jesus. What do you think that meant that he knew not Mary did he not know who she was what do you think the word to know has a different meaning
Why are you using Matt. 1:25 to make an argument about foreknowledge and/or omniscience??
This is apples and oranges.

HOWEVER - if you are trying to show that Joseph and Mary engaged in sexual intercourse based on this verse - then you aren't familiar with Biblical language as it pertains to the use of the word "until" (heos).

The Greek word used in this verse is not the usual term for "knowlegege (oida) but is actually a Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse (ghin-oce'-ko). HOWEVER - if you are trying to make an argument that Joseph and Mary engaged in sexual intercourse based on this verse - you apparently aren't familiar with other areas in Scripture where "until" (heos) is used. Allow me to explain . . .

Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible doesn't support this idea.
Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until”:

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool?

Deut. 34:6 states explicitly that Moses was buried by God in the Valley of Moab - and nobody knows and no one knows his burial place until this day.
Does this mean that Moses' body was discovered after this verse was written?

The problem here is that anti-Catholics attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.
 
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BreadOfLife

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That’s silly.
I bet you are of the persuasion that thinks Egyptian hieroglyphs are better understood today than by the Ancient Egyptians.
Lol
No, but I guarantee you that ancient language scholars of today are MUCH better-equipped to decipher all of the linguistic nuances of ancient Greek MUCH better than people in the 16th century.

There is MUCH more information available today than there was back then, Einstein . . .
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Why are you using Matt. 1:25 to make an argument about foreknowledge and/or omniscience??
This is apples and oranges.

HOWEVER - if you are trying to show that Joseph and Mary engaged in sexual intercourse based on this verse - then you aren't familiar with Biblical language as it pertains to the use of the word "until" (heos).

The Greek word used in this verse is not the usual term for "knowlegege (oida) but is actually a Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse (ghin-oce'-ko). HOWEVER - if you are trying to make an argument that Joseph and Mary engaged in sexual intercourse based on this verse - you apparently aren't familiar with other areas in Scripture where "until" (heos) is used. Allow me to explain . . .

Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible doesn't support this idea.
Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until”:

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool?

Deut. 34:6 states explicitly that Moses was buried by God in the Valley of Moab - and nobody knows and no one knows his burial place until this day.
Does this mean that Moses' body was discovered after this verse was written?

The problem here is that anti-Catholics attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.
The meaning of the word until has nothing to do with the passage I asked you a specific question what is the Bible mean when it says Joseph do not know mary until after the birth of Jesus before the birth of Jesus he didn't know who Mary was is that what you're claiming
 

michaelvpardo

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This is my X Catholic recovery song.

If you know the Lord, you find out that it's Him who does and wills to do through you. The elders cast their crowns at the feet of the Lord. It's all about Him and most definitely not about you.
 

RogerDC

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No, Jesus was talking about what Peter had said about Jesus being the Christ, the Son of the living God and it is that the chief cornerstone. Paul agrees. Paul did not refer to Peter being that Rock, but Christ was and is the Rock
Let me get this straight: You're saying that when Jesus said, "the gates of hell will not prevail against it" in Matt 16:18, he was not referring to the Church, but to something Peter said?
 

RogerDC

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Thank you

you just proved the Roman church teaches works (see red)

there is nothing really more to add
Must a believer repent of his sins in order to saved?

What does James mean when he says
"a man is justified by WORKS and NOT by FAITH ALONE",
and
"faith without WORKS is dead" (James 2:24-26)?
 

RogerDC

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Yet, YOU want us to believe YOUR uneducated translation.

Why should we believe YOU and not the linguistic scholars, Einstein?
According the stupidity of Sola Scriptura, any uneducated half-wit can read the Bible and arrive at the correct interpretation.