Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
This is not true
Many hear believe works are required to maintain salvation. They just do not see or admit it
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
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Many hear believe works are required to maintain salvation. They just do not see or admit it
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Everything you say above is untrue, you're merely grandstanding for heresy as per usual.
It's funny really, you won't even own up to your own documented heretical beliefs, and now you're denying the fact others actually do believe the things you deny above.
Wow, talk about being disingenuous.
Helping you out here--
The idea that Mary remained virgin throughout her entire life is pretty much a Catholic-only belief.
<Fast fowarding here>
I myself try REALLY hard to be respectful, even when their's disagreements, and take the time to understand other people. I find so often that I'm a minority position there.
All Christians believe that.
All Christians believe that Mary was a virigin at Jesus's conception and through His birth.
The idea that Mary remained virgin throughout her entire life is pretty much a Catholic-only belief.
<Fast fowarding here>
Hater's going to hate. They're flawed humans that way, and sit on all pews. And haters can be very very loud.
I myself try REALLY hard to be respectful, even when their's disagreements, and take the time to understand other people. I find so often that I'm a minority position there.
The issue of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or not is a separate one.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
If you are a born again believer you will want to do good works Not to be saved but because you have been saved.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Not really
Either you believe your saved by Grace through faith alone (OSAS)
or you believe you are saved by Grace through faith plus works (NOSAS)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No
its called being transformed, Its called being once dead, and made alive, and acting out your new life
Its called being saved by Grace through faith. And doing the works which God created for us to do. which come natural. because it is our new nature.
There are plenty of people (majority of Christians) whom believe in salvation through grace, but don't believe in OSAS.
Even within the OSAS camp: evidence of that change is part of the theological package. If somebody claims to be a saved Christian in your own congregation, but then either falls majorly away and/or is shown to be partaking of some horrible sin, then the most commonly people will say is "well that person wasn't ever really saved", because of those horrible fruits.
Everyone believes in salvation through the gift of God's grace. Everybody believes that change of heart should not just be a talking thing, but have real visible changes in action & character. It's much better to take the time to try to understand each other and the naunces (which do vary) than strawman arguments.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Not true, not even close.
Wrong again. Many believe there is no such thing as evidence of conversion.
Your above is nothing but straw man arguments, things untrue, and more grandstanding.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am sorry But I can not agree.
You cannot believe in Grace and think that eternal life must be earned or else it can be lost.
Well John says that if people depart they were never of us, So I guess many churches take what John said as true, And do not think a person was born of God God failed. and the person ended up leaving, hence losing salvation
again I can not agree
Everyone CLAIMS this is what they believe, But saying one does and actually believing it are two different things..
Look at the people in James 2. They CLAIMED to have faith, but did they? We can claim all we want. It does not make it true
Here is the difference
OSAS people believe there WILL be these changes Because God does not fail. It is not required, it is a natural occurrence, True faith works. It is not dead. A dead faith never saved anyone
NOSAS people claim their just MAY be these changes, thus they are required. failure to do so will result in a loss of salvation.
Whether or not you personally believe it, it is a common view among other people (which is what I was stating). That's a fact that can't be denied.
Note: obviously you can believe that this common view is incorrect. Truth isn't determined by popular vote.
Nobody believes "God failed".
Are you interested in understanding another person's views here?
I'm asking about understanding them, not agreeing.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Same goes both ways
And I am sorry, When God says he WILL (not might) sanctify a person. Never lose one person. And people grow based on his power and his love
And you say that a person can lose salvation.
Your in effect saying God failed. (in my view)
That is why I will never believe salvation, which is a GIFT OF GOD, can never be lost. Because 1. A gift is freely given (it cost the giver) and freely received, It cost the receiver nothing) and Because it is based on the power of God. Not my own power.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Seeing someone in need, and wanting to help is not for our benefit (maintain salvation) by out of love for our neighbor. Is that concept too hard to comprehend? Must good works be perverted?
The works the Galatians were doing was against their nature. Who wants a knife to their flesh in circumcision in order to be saved. The good works of the Spirit, are from desire to love our neighbor as ourselves.
I'll go with one example:
I am not a OSAS person. I do believe that salvation is a gift from God. I'm not "earning" it-- such an absurdity is laughable actually. Salvation is a gift from God. And it indeed transforming and foundational to everything.
If "Bob" chooses to decline that gift, it's not God failing at all-- He & His gift is still miraculously powerful -- Bob is just declining it and God's not going to force Bob (God is not about enslaving people).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Your going off one work.
Do you or do you not believe that your salvation can be lost if you do not maintain a certain level of works. or righteous living?
A work is a work is a work.. People think they must be baptized in water to be saved, What separates this from circumcision, is this not the same? Is there not a difference between doing something to help in your salvation. and doing something just on the basis you want to obey God. and your eternal state has no bearing on doing those works?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The whole logic here falls down and becomes circular. A believer believes God, walks in the Holy Spirit and is saved. A later incident in their life and they fall away. Oh they were never actually saved in the first place.
So later events define the reality of the spiritual event today. Those who appeared saved may not actually be, you only know in the end. Worse still this is exactly the same as saying you are saved walking in faith, and not saved, honoured by the Lord, if you walk away. At the end of time the result is the same.
There are those who actually go a further step, whether in faith or not when Jesus returns He will honour all those who had some faith and then disappeared.
What blows this out of the water is the fig tree with no fruits. It died, because Jesus came and it was barren. Now a bit of gardening you could say, or as the apostles realised as statement of the thief in the night, be prepared or lose out. How many times and parables does there have to be about being ready? Those in unbelief will never accept it, even if Jesus returned and spoke to their faces.
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