The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[brightfame52]

Scripture Teaches Limited Atonement !

So in light of the scriptures teaching limited atonement, how do we understand words like all or every as they apply to whom Christ died ? Its very simple, they refer to all or everyone Christ died for of the particular people that He died for. For instance, He particularly died for the Sheep of God Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So He died for all or everyone of His Sheep !

Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Every man here is simply every sheep, He tasted death for everyone of His Sheep or all of His Sheep. If we read in Heb 13:20 , the same book as Heb 2, it states that Jesus was brought from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

He was brought from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep , simply because He tasted death as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, every one of them.

Not just Sheep from amongst the jews, but sheep also from amongst the Gentiles also !

What false teachers wilfully neglect, that is to be honest about the word all or every, for instance, the word every in Heb 2:9 is the word pas and means:

II.collectively

A.some of all types

Just like the word world kosmos means:

VIII.any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort


So all or every is used to define a particular collection of individuals, for instance, the collection of the sheep.

We know all men without exception are not Sheep by Christ own words to some jews Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So what can be plainer that all men without exception are not Christ's Sheep that He died for !

 

[brightfame52]

Those who close their Bibles after Acts 2:38 miss some important changes. Changes that Peter himself came to understand. Beyond Acts 2 in Acts 10 Peter has the experience with Cornelius and his understanding of the necessity of water baptism to receive the Holy Spirit was changed. Beyond Acts in Galatians we see the counsel in Jerusalem when Paul and Peter are discussing Cornelius and his Peters experience and how they should or should not yoke the Gentiles with matters of the law. The bottom line is things changed. One must move beyond the Gospel message to the Jews before the Apostles understood the message of Grace alone.

Did you understand my post ?

 

[TEXBOW]

Did you understand my post ?

The reason that all men are not his sheep is because not all men will believe.

 

[Kermos]

Negative. Ransom is paid to free someone.
It isn't about ownership. The topic of the passage is justice.
You are reading definitions INTO a passage, not deriving them FROM the passage.

The phrase "the redemption of his life" (Exodus 21:30) is the definition for "ransom" (Exodus 21:30) which "is demanded of him" (Exodus 21:30).

The phrase "his life" (Exodus 21:30) expressly denotes ownership, so God reveals the definition of "ransom" and "redemption" in Exodus 21:30.

As it is written "If a ransom is demanded of him, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is demanded of him" (Exodus 21:30).

According to Exodus 21:30, "ransom" is defined as "demand for payment to recover ownership".

According to Exodus 21:30, "redemption" is defined as "payment for recovery of unencumbered ownership".

When you wrote "Ransom = freedom", then you lied because:

• "freedom" is defined as "unhindered liberty".
• "freedom" is not defined as "ransom".

The topic of the passage does not negate that definitions are revealed in Exodus 21:29-31.

The word "freedom" does not appear in Exodus 21:29-31, so you add the word "freedom" into scripture where the word "freedom" does not exist.

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

You persist in seeing (perceiving) it dead wrong.

 

[Kermos]

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Jesus Christ, John 15:16)

"I chose you out of the world" (Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation).

Kermos
brightfame52
* or to any other to whom it may concern.

Hello there,

If I have not responded to your posts, I apologise to you, but it is because to argue about these matters is futile.

The Word of God says "My Word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me void, without accomplishing what I desire" (Isaiah 55:11).

For you to write "it is because to argue about these matters is futile" equates to you claiming "the Word of God returns void".

You tacitly reject the Word of God in your opening paragraph, @charity.

I proclaim the Word of God because I know the Word of God does not return void.

I have no doubt that my salvation was a work of God, and I praise Him for it. However that does not take away from the fact that He died for all men. All men have not received salvation, not because God ordained that they should not, but because they either have not believed the gospel of salvation that they have heard, or because they have not yet heard, therefore have not had opportunity.

The Apostle Paul wrote "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3).

The "us" is the Assembly of God, so Christ died for the Assembly.

Christ says "no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).

According to you "He died for all men", so you have person's of God's Assembly being snatched out of Christ's hand because you also wrote "All men have not received salvation".

Christ died for all - specifically for all members of the Assembly of God - not all of everyone everywhere in all time.

Many verses, as has been proved by this thread, can be quoted to seemingly substantiate the claims of both sides of the discussion, but both sides have elements of truth in them. For God has foreknowledge and thereby can pre-destine those who believe for different purposes, eg., that those who believe on His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, may be conformed to His image.(Romans 8:29-30): but that does not negate the fact that Christ died for all men without exception.

God's foreknowledge means that God knows beforehand who will believe in Jesus, and God knows beforehand who will not believe in Jesus; therefore, man cannot thwart that which God knows beforehand will come to pass (Job 42:2).

It is written "When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:48)

God's foreknowledge of who will believe in Jesus is intimately related with God appointing to eternal life all who believe in the Son whom the Father has sent.

You describe an impotent god for yourself that fails at his mission to save "all men without exception" whom you claim that your god died to save. You do not describe the Word of God, Jesus Christ.

Those who hear His voice will respond with faith: those who do not hear His voice will not respond with faith;

Christ's disciples faith/belief in Lord Jesus is the work of God in us disciples, we do not manipulate faith/belief causing faith/belief to point at Jesus, rather God manipulates faith/belief in us.

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith/belief; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God.

yet the truth concerning God's existence, and His eternal power and Godhead have been witnessed throughout the generations in the works of creation by all men. Yet not all have seen, not all have heard with faith. You could say that this is because those who hear and those who see, are His sheep: but that does not deny the fact that the evidences were visible to all, as the gospel message is also, since the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, potentially seen and heard by all.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

None, absolutely no Word of God, says man can choose God.

Truly, the Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

 

[Kermos]

I feel your sincere love.

The Lord Jesus has put love for my neighbor in my heart, and you are my neighbor.

Honesty is evidence of being in the Way (John 14:6).

I do not understand these scriptures the same way you do. Salvation is impossible for man to accomplish without God's free gift. A gift is not forced upon you.

A gift is received.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

A boxer receives punches - not by choice - but in the fury of the fight.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but a result of a collision from a car careening up onto the sidewalk then running over the pedestrian.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation inquired "Brethren, what shall we do?" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

I think many of the those who believe we were predestined before the creation of the earth have difficulty understanding that God had foreknowledge of our acceptance of that free gift or not,

A person cannot "accept" because the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Lord Jesus Christ's sayings proves the deception of your writing of "acceptance of that free gift or not" being the precepts of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

that all the promises start at having faith and believing until the time of redemption. I think your timeline (predestination) starts at creation and my understanding is that it starts at salvation. After salvation we are predestined to the image of God, to be justified, Glorified, adoption, redemption and inheritance. All of these things take place at the time of the Rapture.

Christ's disciples faith/belief in Lord Jesus is the work of God in us disciples, we do not manipulate faith/belief causing faith/belief to point at Jesus, rather God manipulates faith/belief in us.

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God.

My Brother in Christ, we have our difference on this matter but my hope is one day we will both learn a few things together in Heaven.

In your heart, you nullify the Word of God by claiming your purported acceptance of Jesus even in the face of you being confronted by the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The Word of God does not take kindly to you nullifying the Word of God (Mark 7:13) for He says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

The Word of God also says "by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned" (Matthew 12:37).

Since you expressly do not receive the Lord's sayings of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) , then you are not heaven bound.

 

[brightfame52]

The reason that all men are not his sheep is because not all men will believe.

Thats false and backwards.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The phrase "the redemption of his life" (Exodus 21:30) is the definition for "ransom" (Exodus 21:30) which "is demanded of him" (Exodus 21:30).

The phrase "his life" (Exodus 21:30) expressly denotes ownership, so God reveals the definition of "ransom" and "redemption" in Exodus 21:30.

Negative. The reference to "his life" is understood in the context of justice and the death penalty. If the victim's relative agrees, the ox owner is allowed to pay a certain amount of money in lieu of being put to death. The ransom money frees him from the death penalty.

The word "freedom" does not appear in Exodus 21:29-31, so you add the word "freedom" into scripture where the word "freedom" does not exist.

Are you unware that the concept of freedom is implied in the concept of ransom? Have you never heard of kidnapping?

Perhaps you have never heard of kidnapping. What is kidnapping? Kidnapping is the action of abducting someone and holding them captive, while a message is sent to the victim's relatives demanding large sums of money. Allegedly, ostensibly at times, the prisoner is released after the ransom is paid.

How old are you? I can't believe you have never heard of kidnapping before. Ransom is paid to release someone from captivity. Ransom = freedom.

It has NOTHING at all to do with ownership.

 

[Kermos]

So far you haven't produced a passage of scripture where it says that God punished Jesus Christ for the sins of man.

It is written "YHWH was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of YHWH will prosper in His hand" (Isaiah 53:10).

You wrote a lie because God had me proclaim to you the previous passage in post #2474.

Once again, you are forcing a passage to say what you want to hear, not even paying attention to the lexicon you quote. "Letting go" of sin is NOT the same thing as punishing sin. "Overlooking" sin is the opposite of punishing sin. Paul's point is that God "suspended" sin while Jesus was on the cross, which stands in opposition to the notion that God was punishing sin on the cross.

Next time you quote the dictionary, please read it first.

Once again, you lie as you try to force Romans 3:25 to (1) say what you want to hear instead of what Paul wrote, (2) add to the meaning that Paul wrote (3) subtract from the meaning that Paul wrote, and (4) make Paul's writing in Romans 3:25 contradict 1 Corinthians 6:20, Hebrews 9:12, Hebrews 9:12, Hebrews 9:26, Revelation 1:5, 1 Peter 2:24, Ephesians 5:2, John 1:29, Luke 22:20, Matthew 20:28, John 15:13-14, John 19:30, John 10:11, John 10:14, and John 10:27-28 which were proclaimed verbatim to you in post #2474.

Regarding the phrase "passed over" in Romans 3:25, the Greek shows accurately as "letting go" meaning separated as the thing "let go" departs away "from close beside" just as the definition indicates.

From Strong's 3929 as presented to you in post #2474, the definition is '3929 páresis(from 3844 /pará, "from close-beside" and hiēmi, "let go")'.

Reviewing the translation of πάρεσιν (Strong:s 3929) to "passed over" (yours) and "remission" (KJV) along with "overlook", "suspended", "remission", and "release" - all of which appear in the definition.

Respecting πάρεσιν (Strong:s 3929), "overlook" and "suspended" are like saying a cup has some water in it when the cup is full to overflowing. "Overlook" and "suspended" and "passed over" are incomplete and insufficient to express the fullness of "πάρεσιν".

Respecting πάρεσιν (Strong:s 3929), "remission" and "release" are like saying a cup is full of water when the cup is full to overflowing. "Remission" and "release" and "letting go" are complete and sufficient and accurate to express the fullness of "πάρεσιν".

On the cross, Jesus Christ's sacrifice in His Blood let go (Strong's 3929) the sin of Christ's disciples from His disciples by Christ bearing His disciples sin. This is accurate because Paul wrote:

"Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through belief in His Blood, to declare His righteousness for the letting go of sins that are past, through the patience of God" (Romans 3:25).

Your thoughts that 'God "suspended" sin' fail to accurately represent the Word of God.

The passages you cite don't say what you claim they say.

You thoughts are so abyssmally weak and entrenched in the precepts of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) that all you could do was write that baseless and unscriptural sentence.

By God's grace, for God's glory, I say "YHWH was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of YHWH will prosper in His hand" (Isaiah 53:10) is the Truth (John 14:6).

 

[brightfame52]

Particular Justification !

Only a Particular People were to be and are Justified by Christ's Blood/Death Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Its Gods Elect that are Justified by Christ dying !

Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel[Gods elect Rom 8:33] be justified, and shall glory.

 

[brightfame52]

Who are the Us here ?

1 Jn 3:16

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

No doubt the Us here is the same as it is here when its written that He laid down His Life for the Sheep Jn 10:15

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So the Us in 1 Jn 3:16 is specifically the Sheep of Jn 10:15 !

 

[Kermos]

This is where I must stop trying to convince you and simply let you alone with your mistaken ideas.

In parting, consider the following verses:

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Galatians 2:4
But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

James 1:25
But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:12
So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Galatians 5:1
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

1 Peter 2:16
Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.

Truly righteous "freedom" is freedom in Christ, just as it is written "our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 2:4).

See Paul wrote of liberty in Christ.

The Apostle Peter says that free man are slaves of God for it is written "as free, and not having the freedom as a cover-up for evil, but as slaves of God." (1 Peter 2:16).

See that Peter wrote "slaves of God" (1 Peter 2:16), just like Paul wrote disciples of Christ are slaves of righteousness (Romans 6:18) because Christ bought us disciples with His precious Blood at the cross (1 Corinthians 6:20).

"The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" says Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:28).

Christ's Blood shed on the cross is payment for the ransom that leads to Christ's disciples being bought unto slaves of Righteousness; moreover, the payment for the ransom is redemption of Christ's disciples.

We slaves of Righteousness are set free from the punishment for sin.

When you wrote "Jesus didn't buy disciples", then, in effect, @CadyandZoe, you excluded yourself from the ransom that Jesus paid!

 

[TEXBOW]

Jesus died on the cross for all men so that IF they believe through faith, acknowledging that Jesus died on the cross and shed his blood, was buried and rose on the 3rd day that they could eternal life. We are sealed at the moment of salvation, not before salvation. Once we are saved we are purchased and sealed. We are not purchased and sealed until we believe. The cross makes it possible.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Truly righteous "freedom" is freedom in Christ, just as it is written "our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 2:4).

See Paul wrote of liberty in Christ.

The Apostle Peter says that free man are slaves of God for it is written "as free, and not having the freedom as a cover-up for evil, but as slaves of God." (1 Peter 2:16).

See that Peter wrote "slaves of God" (1 Peter 2:16), just like Paul wrote disciples of Christ are slaves of righteousness (Romans 6:18) because Christ bought us disciples with His precious Blood at the cross (1 Corinthians 6:20).

"The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" says Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:28).

Christ's Blood shed on the cross is payment for the ransom that leads to Christ's disciples being bought unto slaves of Righteousness; moreover, the payment for the ransom is redemption of Christ's disciples.

We slaves of Righteousness are set free from the punishment for sin.

When you wrote "Jesus didn't buy disciples", then, in effect, @CadyandZoe, you excluded yourself from the ransom that Jesus paid!

Why do you continue to equivocate on the term "slave?" What is at stake for you? Peter tells us to live as a free people. Peter doesn't say, "You are a slave." He acknowledges that we are a free people. Christ bought our freedom. Why is that so hard to accept?

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus died on the cross for all men so that IF they believe through faith, acknowledging that Jesus died on the cross and shed his blood, was buried and rose on the 3rd day that they could eternal life. We are sealed at the moment of salvation, not before salvation. Once we are saved we are purchased and sealed. We are not purchased and sealed until we believe. The cross makes it possible.

So its obvious you dont believe in the saving efficacy of the death of Christ and that salvation depends upon man. Salvation by works by what a person does.

 

[TEXBOW]

So its obvious you dont believe in the saving efficacy of the death of Christ and that salvation depends upon man. Salvation by works by what a person does.

I do not believe that when Jesus died on the cross that all mankind was given salvation. I believe that we must thru faith believe. This is very clear in the scripture. Otherwise everyone after the cross is going to Heaven no matter what they do. This is far from a perfect analogy but it's like I was sentenced to death but someone paid restitution for my death sentence and if I accept the free gift of restitution I'm free and have eternal life.

 

[Kermos]

Negative. The reference to "his life" is understood in the context of justice and the death penalty. If the victim's relative agrees, the ox owner is allowed to pay a certain amount of money in lieu of being put to death. The ransom money frees him from the death penalty.
Are you unware that the concept of freedom is implied in the concept of ransom? Have you never heard of kidnapping?

Perhaps you have never heard of kidnapping. What is kidnapping? Kidnapping is the action of abducting someone and holding them captive, while a message is sent to the victim's relatives demanding large sums of money. Allegedly, ostensibly at times, the prisoner is released after the ransom is paid.

How old are you? I can't believe you have never heard of kidnapping before. Ransom is paid to release someone from captivity. Ransom = freedom.

It has NOTHING at all to do with ownership.

The phrase "his life" (Exodus 21:30) is a possessive form in linguistics.

A possessive form indicates ownership.

You cannot escape the fact that "ransom" is used in scripture to indicate a "demand for payment to recover ownership of 'his life'" in "If a ransom is demanded of him, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is demanded of him" (Exodus 21:30).

In case you didn't notice, Exodus 21:30 is not about kidnapping, so I'm dropping your "kidnapping" comparison.

According to Exodus 21:30, "ransom" is defined as "demand for payment to recover ownership".

According to Exodus 21:30, "redemption" is defined as "payment for recovery of unencumbered ownership".

When you wrote "Ransom = freedom", then you lied because:

• "freedom" is defined as "unhindered liberty".
• "freedom" is not defined as "ransom".
• you show your heart's treasure to nullify the Word of God (Mark 7:13).

The topic of the passage does not negate that definitions are revealed in Exodus 21:29-31.

The word "freedom" does not appear in Exodus 21:29-31, so you add the word "freedom" into scripture where the word "freedom" does not exist.

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

You persist in seeing (perceiving) "ransom" dead wrong.

 

[Kermos]

Jesus died on the cross for all men so that IF they believe through faith, acknowledging that Jesus died on the cross and shed his blood, was buried and rose on the 3rd day that they could eternal life. We are sealed at the moment of salvation, not before salvation. Once we are saved we are purchased and sealed. We are not purchased and sealed until we believe. The cross makes it possible.

No person can believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent UNLESS Almighty God does a work in the person causing the person to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent.

The Word says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for Peter declared "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God

The persons for whom God does the "cleansing their hearts by belief" (Acts 15:9) are the persons for whom Christ died (John 3:16).

 

[Kermos]

Why do you continue to equivocate on the term "slave?" What is at stake for you? Peter tells us to live as a free people. Peter doesn't say, "You are a slave." He acknowledges that we are a free people. Christ bought our freedom. Why is that so hard to accept?

You blindly say "free" of 1 Peter 2:16 while gnashing your teeth at "slaves of God" in 1 Peter 2:16.

The Apostle Peter says that free man are slaves of God for it is written "as free, and not having the freedom as a cover-up for evil, but as slaves of God." (1 Peter 2:16).

See that Peter wrote "slaves of God" (1 Peter 2:16), just like Paul wrote disciples of Christ are slaves of righteousness (Romans 6:18).

"The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" says Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:28).

Christ's Blood shed on the cross is payment for the ransom that leads to Christ's disciples being bought unto slaves of Righteousness; moreover, the payment for the ransom is redemption of Christ's disciples.

We slaves of Righteousness are set free from the punishment for sin.

When you wrote "Jesus didn't buy disciples", then, in effect, @CadyandZoe, you excluded yourself from the ransom that Jesus paid resulting you being under the punishment for sin.

 

[Kermos]

* John 15:16: Here the Lord Jesus was talking to His disciples:-
'Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth:
but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you.
Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you,
that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:
that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you.'
(Joh 15:15)

* These were the twelve, chosen indeed by God the Father, through the Son.

* John 15:19:
'If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own:
but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world,
therefore the world hateth you.'
(Joh 15:18-19)

* These are the twelve, many who would go on to know martyrdom for His Name.

This is more about the recorded Word of God in John 15:16 and John 15:19 as mentioned in post #2283 which shows that you try to limit the audience to exclusively the apostles for the supper covered in John chapters 14 to 17.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

God the Grantor And God the Concealer And God the Revealer

To His disciples, Jesus says "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest [it is] in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND" (Luke 8:10 - note the relationship to Luke 8:8).
God is the Grantor for Jesus' disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God.

Greatly rejoicing in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus says "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from [the] wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight" (Luke 10:21).

God hides things from some people, yet God reveals things to other people. The hiding and revealing exposes the reality of God's choice (elect persons, chosen persons). God concealing and revealing is well-pleasing to God!



Lord Jesus exclusively reveals Himself to whom He chooses, and this blessed revelation is to the glory of God (Isaiah 42:8).


Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

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