The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Kermos]

That is only what English translations say.

You yourself showed that John was speaking of geography and relationship when He says the whole world lies in wickedness.



It also deals with History, geography, nationalities and science as well. God is creator of all these. And you must remember that Satan is not omnipresent so the whole world (present) cannot lie in the wicked one.

Paul declared Satan is the God of this world. And here He says the WHOLE (holos) world lies in wickedness. All of it lies in wickedness! I don't care a whit why you feel you need to edit what God inspired

But using your definition (which has been mine) yes we lie in wickedness spatially not relationally. I honestly do not know why you are so proud to hold to such a faulty position and tyhen accuse brethren of being unsaved.

Do not forget the Bible is a spiritual book about spiritual matters.

Spatial is also relational as John wrote "lies in" which means to be touching.

This is like an unborn baby in the womb - that is, the baby "lies in" the mother.

These are all "geographic" so to speak, and these are all relational so to speak.

The "evil one" encompasses touching "the whole world".

The mother encompasses touching the baby.

Fundamental grammar dictates that a singular adjective is a singular adjective.

"Wickedness" is a noun.

"Wicked" is an adjective which modifies a noun. "Evil" and "wicked" are synonyms.

Converting a singular adjective into a noun is an illegal operation when both the source language and the destination language support the original grammatical construct.

The construct of the passage is, specifically, that John writes of the born of God Christian "the evil one does not touch him" (1 John 5:18) as well as John writes of tje non-christians "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

John used compare and contrast between the evil one's relationship to the saved and the evil one's relationship to the unsaved (1 John 5:18-19).

Thus the flow and construct of the passage from 1 John 5:18 to 1 John 5:19 is solid grammatically and contextually with "evil one".

This is confirmed throughout scripture.

Paul wrote of the "evil one", that is Satan, with "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2).

Paul, like John, describes how the non-christians have "spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2), yet born again Christians "all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh" (Ephesians 2:3).

See the correlation between 1 John 5:18 and Ephesians 2:3.

Also, see the correlation between 1 John 5:19 and Ephesians 2:2.

Among the reasons that this is so important:

A Christian lies in Christ - that is one with Lord Jesus - not serving two masters.

A non-christian lies in the evil one - that is outside of Christ.

These verses show that the word "world" does not have to mean everyone everywhere which has implications for a verse like 1 John 2:2.

In 1 John 2:1-2, John declares that Christ is the Advocate succeeds every single time that He advocates for the forgiveness of a person's sins with the Father (1 John 2:1); therefore; Christ is the propitiation for the sin of everyone for whom He advocates, not one person for whom He does not advocate, not one failure for advocating, but truly He died and successfully advocates for persons leading to everlasting life with Christ!

Thus "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 does not mean everybody everywhere.

Christ died exclusively for His chosen friends.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

God alone makes the way for man!

EXCELLENT! Can't argue with that!! Praying/hoping
ALL the UNsaved "make The RIGHT Choice!!!" Amen?

God's Simple Will!

 

[Pearl]

Then let @Pearl answer the simple couple of questions instead of you stepping in, and you saying that she is acceptable to contradict Christ!

@Pearl, there is a a question in this post and in this post based upon your words.

She jumped in on her own, so she is adult enough to answer on her own.

You are showing her no love by reinforcing her lie that she thinks is true (Romans 1:32).

Or, do you not believe that of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27)? Notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human subtracting the Word of God is the human lying.

Casting out demons in Jesus' name is NOT choosing Jesus; therefore, nothing in Luke 9:49-50 states man has the ability to choose Jesus; on the other hand, Jesus Himself says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

There are many scriptural points that prove Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, and I plan to post them to you, @Wrangler and @Pearl.

I'm not into argumentative discussions @Kermos. People like you tend to try to tie me in knots with their never-ending 'questions'. I stated my views quite clearly, I think, but you don't seem to have understood. Perhaps if you were little less aggressive . . . .

 

[Kermos]

@Wrangler and @Pearl,

This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Jesus' disciples specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus as described here:

"'Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias." (Acts 1:21-23)

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the twelve who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17.

Matthias and Joseph were also present when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), so Jesus also spoke these glorious words to Matthias and Joseph.

Therefore, it is a false claim when a person conveys that Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" to the eleven apostles exclusively (Judas had already left the supper).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

 

[Wrangler]

Then let @Pearl answer the simple couple of questions instead of you stepping in, and you saying that she is acceptable to contradict Christ

I stepped in, yes. However, the rest of your sentence/accusation is simply not true. We simply disagree on your interpretation of Scripture - in light of other Scripture.

@Wrangler and @Pearl,

This post shows

Oh, no you don't! I brought up Scripture that supports what Pearl said.

Let me explain something to you about Jesus words in John 15:16. He was talking to the Apostles. Jesus chose the Apostles. He is not talking to us. And there is another example in Scripture where Jesus DOES support people like @Pearl acting on his behalf who he did not choose. See Luke 9:49-50.

Respond to that. Specifically, explain to us simpletons how Luke 9:49-50 is not applicable to what Pearl. (And stop saying we are contradicting Christ when Luke 9:49-50 shows you are contradicting Christ) Thanks!

 

[Kermos]

EXCELLENT! Can't argue with that!! Praying/hoping
ALL the UNsaved "make The RIGHT Choice!!!" Amen?

God's Simple Will!

It is WICKED to encourage a person to pray against Lord Jesus Christ Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation)!

 

[Kermos]

I'm not into argumentative discussions @Kermos. People like you tend to try to tie me in knots with their never-ending 'questions'. I stated my views quite clearly, I think, but you don't seem to have understood. Perhaps if you were little less aggressive . . . .

I asked you questions in the same posts where I explained the ends of your views.

I did not hide where the questions and answers would lead.

There is no scripture that states that God imparted man a free will, so a person claiming that man has a free will is adding to scripture.

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.


The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

These are all "geographic" so to speak, and these are all relational so to speak.

Not according to the definition. I will stick with the Word over your opinion every day!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"Wickedness" is a noun.

"Wicked" is an adjective which modifies a noun. "Evil" and "wicked" are synonyms.

Converting a singular adjective into a noun is an illegal operation when both the source language and the destination language support the original grammatical construct.

The construct of the passage is, specifically, that John writes of the born of God Christian "the evil one does not touch him" (1 John 5:18) as well as John writes of tje non-christians "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

Well as "wickedness" is an English translation your argument in crossing greek to english is irrelevant. Actually it is better translated as evil. And if this was in the nominative like poneros appears in 18 you would have a point, but as it appears in the dative this adjective becomes and indirect object of lies and relates geographically to the whole world.

So you have to add "one" meaning Satan who is not omnipresent so the whole world cannot lie in Satan.

You have to retranslate "whole" to make it not mean all. YOu are failing terribly.

 

[Kermos]

I stepped in, yes. However, the rest of your sentence/accusation is simply not true. We simply disagree on your interpretation of Scripture - in light of other Scripture.

There is no interpretation other than by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21).

Christ specifically says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Christ means exactly what He says to His disciples!

Oh, no you don't! I brought up Scripture that supports what Pearl said.

Respond to that. Specifically, explain to us simpletons how Luke 9:49-50 is not applicable to what Pearl. (And stop saying we are contradicting Christ when Luke 9:49-50 shows you are contradicting Christ) Thanks!

What is it that @Pearl is saying to which you claim Luke 9:49-50 supports?

I perceive that you are saying that it supports choosing Jesus, so I am now asking you for clarification because I addressed the passage in Luke according to that.

 

[Kermos]

@Wrangler and @Pearl,

This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The First Nature's Illegitimate Claim - Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

People who claim to be able to choose Jesus, despite those people being confronted by the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), with those people persisting in their claim of being able to choose Jesus thereafter, with those people claiming the Word of God applies only to the apostles, by extension those people claim to be superior to the apostles.

Peter said to Jesus, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" And Jesus said to Peter, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 16:16-17). The Apostle Peter did not do it himself for he is flesh and blood. God did it to Peter. People who claim to be able to choose Jesus by extension claim to be superior to the apostles.

People who claims the ability to choose Jesus claim to have facility that exceeds the apostles facility.

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

 

[Wrangler]

What is it that @Pearl is saying to which you claim Luke 9:49-50 supports?

I perceive that you are saying that it supports choosing Jesus, so I am now asking you for clarification because I addressed the passage in Luke according to that.

Wow! Yes. Emphatically yes. Not sure how much clarification you need. So stubborn you seem, fixated on the righteousness of your position. Luke 9:49-50 supports what Pearl said, in choosing to Act for Christ even though Jesus did not choose them.

I’m not sure how clearer the point you do not want to accept can be made. Did you read and understand Luke 9:49-50?

 

[Kermos]

Not according to the definition. I will stick with the Word over your opinion every day!

Well as "wickedness" is an English translation your argument in crossing greek to english is irrelevant. Actually it is better translated as evil. And if this was in the nominative like poneros appears in 18 you would have a point, but as it appears in the dative this adjective becomes and indirect object of lies and relates geographically to the whole world.

So you have to add "one" meaning Satan who is not omnipresent so the whole world cannot lie in Satan.

You have to retranslate "whole" to make it not mean all. YOu are failing terribly.

Regardless of nominative or dative, the object (noun) modified by the singular adjective poneros (evil) is "one" resulting in "evil one" for both 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 5:19.

By the way, in grammar, a subject (noun) does an action (verb) upon a direct object while in some instances an indirect object is the recipient of the direct object.
1) a direct object is properly termed "a direct object of the subject".
2) an indirect object is properly termed "an indirect object of the subject".

When you wrote "indirect object of lies", then you have linguistically illegally applied the object of poneros (evil one) to the verb "lies".

This is basic grammar that you fail to understand.

You previously brought up Paul, but you gave no scriptural citations, yet I provided scriptural citations for Paul and you makes no mention of these citations that show the agreement between Paul and John.

See the correlation between 1 John 5:18 and Ephesians 2:3.

Also, see the correlation between 1 John 5:19 and Ephesians 2:2.

The construct of the passage is, specifically, that John writes of the born of God Christian "the evil one does not touch him" (1 John 5:18) as well as John writes of tje non-christians "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

John used compare and contrast between the evil one's relationship to the saved and the evil one's relationship to the unsaved (1 John 5:18-19).

Paul also abused compare and contrast for the same purpose as John.

Paul wrote of the "evil one", that is Satan, with "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2).

Paul, like John, describes how the non-christians have "spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2), yet born again Christians "all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh" (Ephesians 2:3).

A Christian lies in Christ - that is one with Lord Jesus - not serving two masters.

A non-christian lies in the evil one - that is outside of Christ.

Christ died exclusively for His chosen friends.

 

[Kermos]

Wow! Yes. Emphatically yes. Not sure how much clarification you need. So stubborn you seem, fixated on the righteousness of your position. Luke 9:49-50 supports what Pearl said, in choosing to Act for Christ even though Jesus did not choose them.

I’m not sure how clearer the point you do not want to accept can be made. Did you read and understand Luke 9:49-50?

Here's the explanation that the Holy Spirit had me present to you previously in this post:

Casting out demons in Jesus' name is NOT choosing Jesus; therefore, nothing in Luke 9:49-50 states man has the ability to choose Jesus; on the other hand, Jesus Himself says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Your post shows that the Lord Jesus gave me accurate perception of your deceitful defense of @Pearl's lie.

Since the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), then Christ died ONLY for the people of God.

 

[Kermos]

I'm not into argumentative discussions Kermos. People like you tend to try to tie me in knots with their never-ending 'questions'. I stated my views quite clearly, I think, but you don't seem to have understood. Perhaps if you were little less aggressive . . . .

Well, @Pearl, it sounds like you are not ready in season nor out of season to give an answer to the question in this post nor in this post (2 Timothy 4:2).

 

[Kermos]

@Wrangler and @Pearl,

This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Relation To Exclusive Choice By Jesus (John 15:16)

Lord Jesus immediately adjacently joins being chosen by God as friends of Friend Jesus (John 15:15-16).

"I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16) says Lord Jesus.

A friend of Jesus does not choose Jesus, but Jesus does choose the friend of Jesus (John 15:15-16), and a friend of Jesus does what Jesus commands (John 15:14) by the appointment of Jesus (John 15:16) thus being a friend of Jesus by the Christ's choosing (John 15:14-16).

FREE-WILLIANS DISAVOW CHRIST'S WORDS OF "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME" (JOHN 15:16) FOR THEMSELVES WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DECLARING THE WORDS AS EXCLUSIVELY APPLICABLE TO THE APOSTLES; THEREFORE, FREE-WILLIANS DENY BEING A FRIEND OF JESUS WHICH JESUS COVERS IN THE SAME SAYINGS OF JESUS.

A friend of Jesus marvels at the glorious exclusive work of God's salvation of man; on the other hand, an enemy of Jesus steals the exclusive glory of man's salvation from God by saying things like "I chose Jesus" or "I accepted Jesus" resulting in the following implications to free will philosophy:

• 
  the enemy of Jesus rejects Jesus* Who says Who He is, and Jesus declares Himself Sovereign, the exclusive Controller, in man's salvation.
  the enemy of Jesus does not receive the sayings of Jesus* for the enemy disavows Jesus' sayings about God's exclusive choosing of man (John 15:16, John 15:19).
  the enemy of Jesus thinks the enemy compels God to provide salvation (i.e. God must obey man's command for salvation, and also without a man's affirming decision there is no salvation for the man).
  the enemy of Jesus gets the glory, yet God does not give His glory to another (Isaiah 42:8).

* "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

In their hearts self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) effectively remove themselves from being friends of Jesus.

By the Power of God, for God's glory (Isaiah 42:8), the friend of Jesus bears good fruit/works because apart from Jesus a person can do nothing (John 15:5).

By the Power of God, by God's grace, for God's glory (Isaiah 42:8), the friend of Jesus is saved from the wrath of God for Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

 

[Wrangler]

Here's the explanation that the Holy Spirit had me present to you previously in this post:

You cannot even answer using your own conscience but claim divine inspiration to support your hateful posts? Oh my.

Casting out demons in Jesus' name is NOT choosing Jesus

It certainly does and Jesus affirms this in the very next verse; those who are not against us are for us. One cannot be FOR Jesus and not choose him.

 

[Wrangler]

Your post shows that the Lord Jesus gave me accurate perception of your deceitful defense of @Pearl's lie.

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Pearl]

Well, @Pearl, it sounds like you are not ready in season nor out of season to give an answer to the question in this post nor in this post (2 Timothy 4:2).

Sorry @Kermos but I need to put you on ignore as I don't come on this site to argue. Bye.

 

[Wrangler]

Sorry @Kermos but I need to put you on ignore as I don't come on this site to argue. Bye.

It's sad but necessary. A pastor once said nothing in the Bible says that one has to put up with abuse. I am comforted by Titus and Bishop Chaput pointed out that tolerance is NOT a Christian virtue.


If a person is causing divisions in the community, warn him once; and if necessary, warn him twice. After that, avoid him completely.
Titus 3:10 (Voice)