The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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So if the scripture declares that Christ specifically died for His Church and Loved it Eph 5:25, then the world God Loved and gave Christ for in Jn 3:16 is the same Church !
He specifically died for the Seed of Abraham !
There are so many scriptures that indicate specifically who Christ died for in lieu of the false sentiment and notion that He died for every individual of mankind !
One such scripture passage is Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Now He took on the seed of Abraham, and why ? to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
His coming to die for sin was only for a segment of mankind , the seed of Abraham
He came to only render aid to and rescue Abrahams descendants !
And no, not Abrahams carnal descendants according natural heritage because they themselves are not the Children of God Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
But those descendants of Abraham belonging to Christ Gal 3:2962
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Christ is the Head of His Body the Church ! Thats who Christ specifically died for Eph 5:25
5 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
There are so many scriptures that indicate specifically who Christ died for in lieu of the false sentiment and notion that He died for every individual of mankind !
One such scripture passage is Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Now He took on the seed of Abraham, and why ? to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
His coming to die for sin was only for a segment of mankind , the seed of Abraham
He came to only render aid to and rescue Abrahams descendants !
And no, not Abrahams carnal descendants according natural heritage because they themselves are not the Children of God Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
But those descendants of Abraham belonging to Christ Gal 3:2962
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Christ is the Head of His Body the Church ! Thats who Christ specifically died for Eph 5:25
5 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, not all without exception !
Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Here is the truth of scripture "the sins of many"
Mans religion doesnt believe that grand truth, and has substituted it "he bare the sins of all without exception"
Yes Christ did die for all, meaning He died for all whom He died for, thats very simple. Earlier in this same letter the writer writes Christ by the grace of God tasted death for every man Heb 2:9, but that simply is stating the same as the text Heb 9:28 which clarifies Heb 2:9 to simply mean He tasted death for every man of the many ! Its handling the word deceitfully to make Heb 2:9 and Heb 9:28 to be at variance with one another or to contradict one another. Thats what mans religion does, handle the word deceitfully, which they willl give an account on the day of Judgment.
More scriptures that emphasize that Christs death was for the many verses for all without exception Matt 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. See Mk 10:45
Matt 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Isa 53:11,12
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Here its emphasized He bare the sins of many and justified them by doing so.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Here is the truth of scripture "the sins of many"
Mans religion doesnt believe that grand truth, and has substituted it "he bare the sins of all without exception"
Yes Christ did die for all, meaning He died for all whom He died for, thats very simple. Earlier in this same letter the writer writes Christ by the grace of God tasted death for every man Heb 2:9, but that simply is stating the same as the text Heb 9:28 which clarifies Heb 2:9 to simply mean He tasted death for every man of the many ! Its handling the word deceitfully to make Heb 2:9 and Heb 9:28 to be at variance with one another or to contradict one another. Thats what mans religion does, handle the word deceitfully, which they willl give an account on the day of Judgment.
More scriptures that emphasize that Christs death was for the many verses for all without exception Matt 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. See Mk 10:45
Matt 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Isa 53:11,12
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Here its emphasized He bare the sins of many and justified them by doing so.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Another Old Testament scripture which shows us the restrictive nature of the death and cleansing blood of Jesus Christ Zech 13:1
In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
The blessings of the cross would be for and applied to:63
The House of David and the to the inhabitants of Jerusalem
Again Christ was offered to bear the sins of many, not all without exception !
In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
The blessings of the cross would be for and applied to:63
The House of David and the to the inhabitants of Jerusalem
Again Christ was offered to bear the sins of many, not all without exception !
Christ is a Horn of Salvation unto the House of David as promised in Holy Prophecy Lk 1:68-70
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Not to all without exception, but a specific people.
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Not to all without exception, but a specific people.
Salvation is based upon Gods Promise, and God has promised to save one particular people, Israel Isa 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Jesus was raised from the dead according to promise to be a Saviour to Israel, a Chosen People, not to all without exception Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Theres never a promise of God to save all mankind without exception, but only a chosen remnant, Israel ! Thats who Christ died for as Savior.
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Theres never a promise of God to save all mankind without exception, but only a chosen remnant, Israel ! Thats who Christ died for as Savior.
Another way we know that Christ didn't die for all without exception is in that by His death,
those He died for, or as it reads" by the offering of the body of Christ" those He died for are permanently set apart unto God for Salvation. Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The word sanctified here is in the perfect tense. Its the greek word hagiazó and means:
to regard as special (sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify.
Its like when its written of the prophet jeremiah Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
The same is true of every sinner for whom Christ died. Now all are not sanctified by Christ's death, hence all without exception He could not have died for.64
those He died for, or as it reads" by the offering of the body of Christ" those He died for are permanently set apart unto God for Salvation. Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The word sanctified here is in the perfect tense. Its the greek word hagiazó and means:
to regard as special (sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify.
Its like when its written of the prophet jeremiah Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
The same is true of every sinner for whom Christ died. Now all are not sanctified by Christ's death, hence all without exception He could not have died for.64
Another way we know that Christ didn't die for all without exception is in that by His death,
those He died for, or as it reads" by the offering of the body of Christ" those He died for are permanently set apart unto God for Salvation. Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Christ sanctifying death, His Blood, has purged away the guilt and punishment due to the ones He died for Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself[His Death/Blood] purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high
The word purged here is the greek word katharismos and means:
those He died for, or as it reads" by the offering of the body of Christ" those He died for are permanently set apart unto God for Salvation. Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Christ sanctifying death, His Blood, has purged away the guilt and punishment due to the ones He died for Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself[His Death/Blood] purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high
The word purged here is the greek word katharismos and means:
- a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
- of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
- of levitical purification of women after childbirth
- a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
Jesus death was a expiatory sacrifice
This is part of the being sanctified by His One Offering Heb 10:10. The condemning power of Gods law is done away with for these.
An OT scripture foresaw this Ps 79:9
9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
- of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
Christ came specifically to identify with and to die for the seed of abraham, which is His Church Heb 2:14-17
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Notice in Vs 16 where it reads he took on him the seed of abraham, not all humanity. The phrase " he took on him " can be better rendered :
For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
but he takes hold of the seed of Abraham.
but death was authorized over the seed of Abraham.
The point being He didn't come to die for all without exception but for a particular seed !
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Notice in Vs 16 where it reads he took on him the seed of abraham, not all humanity. The phrase " he took on him " can be better rendered :
For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
but he takes hold of the seed of Abraham.
but death was authorized over the seed of Abraham.
The point being He didn't come to die for all without exception but for a particular seed !
@Wrangler and @Pearl,
This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
LORD JESUS' PRAYER FOR US BELIEVERS
Part of the prayer of Lord Jesus during the supper is thus "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20).
Jesus said "through their word" (John 17:20) which means that "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) are words that the Apostle John recorded. John recorded the Word of God, and the Word of God says "for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20), and He preceded these words with "I do not ask on behalf of these alone" (John 17:20), so the Word of God during the supper is not just for the people in the room, but the Word of God during the supper is for all believers in all time.
Thus, belief in Jesus through the Apostle John's words includes the Lord Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19which are all part of the "through" John's "word" (John 17:20) which Jesus referred to in His prayer.
Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.
Related post 1: more disciples present at supper
Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles
Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)
Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)
Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time
This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
LORD JESUS' PRAYER FOR US BELIEVERS
Part of the prayer of Lord Jesus during the supper is thus "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20).
Jesus said "through their word" (John 17:20) which means that "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) are words that the Apostle John recorded. John recorded the Word of God, and the Word of God says "for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20), and He preceded these words with "I do not ask on behalf of these alone" (John 17:20), so the Word of God during the supper is not just for the people in the room, but the Word of God during the supper is for all believers in all time.
Thus, belief in Jesus through the Apostle John's words includes the Lord Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19which are all part of the "through" John's "word" (John 17:20) which Jesus referred to in His prayer.
Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.
Related post 1: more disciples present at supper
Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles
Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)
Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)
Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time
I have never seen or heard anyone with such a sick twisted interpretation of scripture. Most of it is twisting it to fit the specific wrongly interpreted word "sheep". It is a different view that the totality of the Bible does not support at all. I don't know if cult people are on here or what but these whacked out interpretations and twisting of the word of God is unbelievable. I would say they are the view of someone without any guidance of the Holy Spirit and their eyes are still covered with a sinful mind. But, that is me just wondering out loud. Next we will have people telling us how Islam is the best religion in the world and how all Christians need to become good Muslims. Good grief! what is next?
Christ was indebted to be made like His brethren, not all mankind Heb 2:17
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
It wasnt all men without exception Christ was under obligation to die for, to make reconciliation for the sins of.. The word behooved is the greek word opheilōand means:
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
It wasnt all men without exception Christ was under obligation to die for, to make reconciliation for the sins of.. The word behooved is the greek word opheilōand means:
- to owe
- to owe money, be in debt for
- that which is due, the debt
- to owe money, be in debt for
- metaph. the goodwill due
Christ was only in debt for the sins of His brethren
His obligation before the Law and Justice of God for sins was only for His Brethren, Abraham's seed, because it was only their sins laid to His charge
to be under obligation, be guilty, hence was under obligation to become guilty [by imputation] for the sins of His brethren. No, not His brethren by ethnicity, but His brethren in the purpose of God, to be conformed to His image Rom 8:28-29
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Christ wasn't indebted for the sins of anyone else !
You failed to cite the Word of God in your post, so you failed to demonstrate any Godly foundation for what you wrote.
Your post is a whole lot of useless "word of @Spkrdctr", which is not life.
In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).
The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
Since God exclusively chooses people unto salvation, then Jesus died only for the people that He has chosen unto salvation.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You know, there actually are... some so-called churches that if you answer the altar call, you have to wait to be approved by the church elders and your baptism must then be on another day. Those places appear to me like what God called the false prophet dens as 'beth-avens', which means houses of vanity.
Our Faith on Jesus Christ and our baptism is not between us and man. It is between us and The LORD. It's The Holy Spirit that actually baptizes our spirit, the washing of the flesh simply a symbol to represent that inner washing away of our sins.
@Wrangler and @Pearl,
This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
LORD JESUS INDICATES DISCIPLES IN THE SUPPER ROOM OF A NUMBER GREATER THAN 12
Lord Jesus says "It is one of the twelve, one who dips with Me in the bowl" (Mark 14:19) about the apostle who betrayed Him.
The Master Orator cleverly exposes that the audience for the supper exceeds the 12 apostles by explicitly stating "the twelve" instead of "you".
Master Jesus used the phrase "the twelve" to distinguish that the betrayer was in the group of 12 disciples called apostles which, by such way of expression by Jesus, the rest of the disciples present in the supper room would know that they are not the betrayer that Jesus was identifying.
Lord Jesus expressed that more than 12 disciples attended the supper when He exposed that the betrayer was not only from the set of all disciples but even more narrowly that the betrayer was numbered from among "the twelve" - the 12 disciples He called apostles.
Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.
Related post 1: more disciples present at supper
Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles
Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)
Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)
Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time
Related post 6: Lord Jesus' prayer for us believers
This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).
LORD JESUS INDICATES DISCIPLES IN THE SUPPER ROOM OF A NUMBER GREATER THAN 12
Lord Jesus says "It is one of the twelve, one who dips with Me in the bowl" (Mark 14:19) about the apostle who betrayed Him.
The Master Orator cleverly exposes that the audience for the supper exceeds the 12 apostles by explicitly stating "the twelve" instead of "you".
Master Jesus used the phrase "the twelve" to distinguish that the betrayer was in the group of 12 disciples called apostles which, by such way of expression by Jesus, the rest of the disciples present in the supper room would know that they are not the betrayer that Jesus was identifying.
Lord Jesus expressed that more than 12 disciples attended the supper when He exposed that the betrayer was not only from the set of all disciples but even more narrowly that the betrayer was numbered from among "the twelve" - the 12 disciples He called apostles.
Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.
Related post 1: more disciples present at supper
Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles
Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)
Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)
Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time
Related post 6: Lord Jesus' prayer for us believers
Again, Jesus Christ emphasized who He came to die for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Yet mans religion makes no reference to this clear spoken truth!65
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Yet mans religion makes no reference to this clear spoken truth!65
Davy
Well-Known Member
According to you, Christ failed to save everybody he died for on the cross.
Truly, Christ says "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).
You make Christ out to be a failure.
There are some really crazily wicked precepts of men being pushed to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) that advocate for Christ failing to save all the people for whom he died.
According to King Jesus Christ words and deeds, He is the Victor over all.
King Jesus Christ died exclusively for all citizens of the Kingdom of God.
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