The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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Keiw
Well-Known Member
Jesus sacrifice opened the door to all. But as he teaches--FEW will find the road and enter that door that leads to life( be saved)
Men have twisted Gods written word into oblivion and made a mass of confusion out of it. That is why there are 34,000 different religions claiming to be christian. They must have missed these bible truths-1Cotrinthians 1:10--Unity of thought, no division.
Mark 3:25--If a house becomes divided it will not stand.--- One must ask themselves--How many religions did Jesus start= 1 single religion. How does one choose?
Funny cause that is exactly what scripture says about His very own elect.
Romans 8
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
For whom does Christ make intercession for with God?
Meaning for who does Christ pray for to the God?
The elect and only them, who are those God has given to Christ as believers in Him.
Another example
John 17
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
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Jesus warned His disciples that many would fall for and follow a false Christ.
Such as a Christ who would pray for the world.
Follow a false Christ and you prove you are of the world and not of God.
Meaning for who does Christ pray for to the God?
The elect and only them, who are those God has given to Christ as believers in Him.
Another example
John 17
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
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Jesus warned His disciples that many would fall for and follow a false Christ.
Such as a Christ who would pray for the world.
Follow a false Christ and you prove you are of the world and not of God.
Hebrews 7, the WE, US, OUR, for whom Christ makes intercession with God are the elect who are saved, none of them are OF the world.
Christ makes no prayer for those of the world.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For He testifies:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Greatness of the New Priest
20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him:
“The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
‘You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’ ”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
Christ makes no prayer for those of the world.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For He testifies:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Greatness of the New Priest
20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him:
“The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
‘You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’ ”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Govts are of this world--the worlds celebrations are of this world. protests, blm. many things.
Yeah, I heard your false claim the first five times, that's why I asked for proof....but I see you don't have anything but a repeat button.
Are you familiar with corporate election?
The golden chain is about membership in "a large family" (8:29). It is about the group of those who are foreknown, predestined, called, justified, and glorified. As we saw in Romans 11:17-25, individuals may move into that group on the condition of faith or out of it on the condition of unbelief.
When you say it that way, then it is an unknown group of individuals comprising that group of the saved.
Romans 8:30 though says for whom He foreknew, which refers to individual persons not the unknown group.
Is God a personal God, well did God call Abraham?
Those who are with Christ at the end of the age, it says this about them, they are called, and chosen, and faithful.
I also think the order of the words has meaning. They are called then chosen, then and only then, they are faithful.
Revelation 17
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
God's calling is personal, it is targeted and efficient.
Acts 13:2
As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.
Romans 1 on our calling, makes no sense if all are called, for them to be referred to in this way. Not all are called to be saints.
5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 13:2
As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.
Romans 1 on our calling, makes no sense if all are called, for them to be referred to in this way. Not all are called to be saints.
5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1, not everyone is called.
Of interest here on calling.
For those not called, for uncalled Jews, Christ the stumbling block, for uncalled Greeks, Christ is foolishness
BUT to those who are called, Christ is the power and wisdom of God for their salvation, He their High Priest.
22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
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18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Glory Only in the Lord
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
Of interest here on calling.
For those not called, for uncalled Jews, Christ the stumbling block, for uncalled Greeks, Christ is foolishness
BUT to those who are called, Christ is the power and wisdom of God for their salvation, He their High Priest.
22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
=======================
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Glory Only in the Lord
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
Its not a false claim, believing is an action the person does. You are deceived to think otherwise.
The word for knowing has a different meaning than you presume, I think. Corporate election is one interpretation, Another is that the ones God knew in former times, the old testament saints, are in view in the golden chain passage. So this knowing isn't about God's knowledge, it's about these people having a relationship with God because of their pursuit of him and vice versa. Notice it's all in the past tense. So, how is it referring to us? Only in the sense that God was faithful to them and so will be faithful to us. Yes, anyone who is in Christ is chosen. God chose to give anyone who is in Christ salvation.
This is a calling to a task, not for salvation. Arent' all that believe called to be saints?
Being a 'saint' is not a task (work), it is a condition, a state of being. You mistaking calling here for a required action of a person to be good and do good, and that is not what being a saint is about.
It is an individual election, notice Christ says 'whom He chose'
Mark 13:20
And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
All the saved are his saints, as are all saints saved.
So you can say it like this,
'Called to be saved'
Whole lot of 'saint' verses, that show us the saints are those of the church who are of the saved.
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: saint
A few examples
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
Romans 16:15
Greet Philologus and Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints who are with them.
Romans 8:27
Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: saint
A few examples
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
Romans 16:15
Greet Philologus and Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints who are with them.
Romans 8:27
Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
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