When Jesus said the lost sheep of Israel, you hear: " The individual Jews he chose for salvation."
I hear: "Every Jew that hadn't accepted him yet, and every gentile."
So, there's no one he didn't come for.
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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I hear: "Every Jew that hadn't accepted him yet, and every gentile."
So, there's no one he didn't come for.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
“And HE Is THE Propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for
the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:2 KJB!)
Denial of this Also Denies The Righteous JUDGMENT Of God on the wicked! ie:
They Will "bow the knee, AND Confess HIM As LORD Of All," Admitting "That
they Do Deserve" HIS Righteous Judgment, Because "they REJECTED HIS
Gracious Offer of Eternal Salvation, By HIS Death, And Precious BLOOD,
SHED In Total PAYMENT, for "the sins of the WHOLE world!" Amen?
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Jesus knew whom He came for. For He knows His sheep. And He knows that not all Israel are His sheep. He did not come for all Israel to have them become His sheep, but He had come for them who are His sheep who are lost. As Paul had told us about his brethren according to the flesh, the Israelites, “For they are not all Israel who are of Israel”. That while the children of Israel are sheep, not all the children of Israel are Jesus’ sheep. And so Jesus told these Jews in John 10:26, that because they are not His sheep, is why they do not believe Him, despite all that they have seen Him done and heard Him preached.
One more truth concerning His sheep, Jesus said, they were given to Him by the Father. His sheep are not individual people who by their own, came and gave themselves to Christ, and believe and become His sheep. As the sheep were given to Christ by the Father, the Father understandably must have chosen them first.
Tong
R2275
Yes, because not all choose to be! Not because God picked some and bypassed others.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
In light of 1 Peter 1:1 7 & Ephesians 1:4 and this, that is a tough argument to make. The Judgment against Pharaoh informs us God 'hardened his heart' on numerous occasions, meaning he was not acting on his own free will but at God's direction. This is a matter of Scripture that is a tough teaching.
<<<Yes, because not all choose to be! >>>
If I will listen and believe what you teach there , I will have to deny the truth that Jesus clearly said in John 10:26 that they believe not BECAUSE they are not His sheep or pervert it to make it mean differently or misinterpret it.
If only they were His sheep, they would have believed Him, for Jesus said in the John 10:27, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” After all, what they saw and heard what Jesus had done merely by His word and without any sweat, consistently and with great power and authority, here there and everywhere openly among the people, are no small thing and ordinary, but are amazing and impossible, and only could have been done by no less than God.
<<<Not because God picked some and bypassed others.>>>
Why you can’t seem to believe the truth that there are people whom God had chosen (the sheep) and had given to Jesus to raise up at the last day, even while that is very clearly taught in scriptures by Jesus Himself, and is strongly against it, really makes me wonder.
Perhaps that is how it is when one listens to what his thinking/reasoning/mind says to him instead of what the Spirit is telling him in plain and clear scriptures.
Tong
R2277
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Indeed Christ died for the forgiveness of sins of the chosen ones, His sheep, His people, His church that the Father had given Him to raise in the last day unto eternal. Bit it is also indeed died for the propitiation or atonement for the whole world, saving all, allowing them to continue to live their life on earth, having appeased God by covering their sins by His precious blood.
Tong
R2279
As I've told you multiple times, not being his sheep THEN did not mean they could never be his sheep. Many, in fact, did believe on him later.
And that without scriptures to show that speaks about people who are not His sheep people becoming sheep by believing in Him.
Tong
R2285
Scriptures that indicate that Jesus Christ died and rose again for a specific and definite people !
Acts 13:23
23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: cp with 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;173
Acts 13:23
23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: cp with 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;173
Needless to say, I believe those scriptures. But there are other scriptures that speak what the death of Christ accomplished, such as:
1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Tong
R2290
Perhaps it's the metaphor that confuses you..when Jesus uses the metaphor of becoming a child of God, do you assume that person was always a child of God or that it's something one can become?
When he uses the metaphor of the vine and branches, do you assume someone was always a branch, or is it something you become?
Why would you assume someone is born a sheep?
No, nothing confuses me. The metaphor is fine and is clear.
The metaphor is the “sheep”. It is a metaphor for a particular and distinguished people, not a metaphor for becoming a particular and distinguished people.
There is the metaphor of the good shepherd. It is a metaphor for Jesus Christ, not a metaphor for becoming Jesus Christ.
<<<Why would you assume someone is born a sheep?>>>
No assumption Renniks. For we learn from scriptures how people become sheep. People become sheep by the election of God.
Tong
R2293
The LORD is my shepherd; I have all that I need. He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, he refreshes my soul. He guides me along the right paths for his name’s sake.
Was David born a sheep or did he become one by following God?
Mark 6:34 Jesus saw the huge crowd as he stepped from the boat, and he had compassion on them because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.
Was everyone in the crowd born to be his sheep?
7. Psalm 100:3 Acknowledge that the LORD is God! He made us, and we are his. We are his people, the sheep of his pasture.
Were all of Israel faithful to God and therefore his sheep? See why it can't just be pre picked individuals?
And finally:
Isaiah 53:5-7 But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed. All of us, like sheep, have strayed away. We have left God’s paths to follow our own. Yet the Lord laid on him the sins of us all. He was oppressed and treated harshly, yet he never said a word. He was led like a lamb to the slaughter. And as a sheep is silent before the shearers, he did not open his mouth.
And now everyone is called a sheep!
The metaphor is obviously not meant to be used as a synonym for " pre-chosen individuals."
Did you not read my post? I said “People become sheep by the election of God.”
Tong
R2295
You seem to not read what’s in the verse but rather read in the verse what you believe.
1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Tong
R2297
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
God Did NOT Say: Part of "The WHOLE world" but:
man says: He MEANT "part of" THE WHOLE WORLD!!
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