The old " Every one" actually means only a few chosen people... weird. I guess God doesn't love the little children of the world after all in your twisted system.
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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Yes, anyone can be saved. In fact all mankind were saved and are saved by Jesus’s blood of atonement, from the wrath of God against all their ungodliness and unrighteousness, from the wrath of God which He once have shown long ago in the days of Noah.
But regarding salvation unto eternal life, God have chosen from among mankind, those whom He make out to be His people, given them to Christ to raise up at the last day. His election is by grace and His salvation is by faith. And for those God had chosen, Jesus Christ offered his life as a sacrifice for the forgiveness of their sins.
Tong
R2314
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You do realize ‘can be’ is mere potential and not at all the same as ‘is the case.’ If it were, then universalism is correct doctrine.
All mankind are saved from his wrath? Not unless they repent!
Salvation from wrath and salvation to eternal life are the same package deal.
Can be. ... as in, the atonement was made for all, but is activated by faith. No one is irresistibly chosen for salvation.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I know there is a lot of definitions thrown around in this thread. My pastor recently differentiated between faith and belief. Belief is not tied to action but faith is.
Is this the meaning you had in mind in using the word faith in the above post?
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
↑
Everybody will become a sheep when they call upon the name.
Anybody on the face of this world.
It's simple.
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Tong: "lol, thats false, no where stated in scripture !"
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anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
Is that any clearer to you?
Everybody will become a sheep when they call upon the name.
Anybody on the face of this world.
It's simple.
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Tong: "lol, thats false, no where stated in scripture !"
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anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
Is that any clearer to you?
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
“Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved” (Romans 10:13).
It is not simply everyone, but everyone who calls.
Everyone will not be saved, but everyone who calls on the name of Lord will certainly be saved.
Everyone who calls can be anyone at all. It doesn’t matter how messed up your life is.
Done here with feeding the troller.
The reconciliation of God and humankind through Jesus Christ.
Jesus said that he came to set the captives free.
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me (the Messiah), Because He has anointed Me to preach the good news to the poor. He has sent Me to announce release (pardon, forgiveness) to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed."
How? By being a ransom.
"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”
"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time."
Who are the many? Who are all?
Christ died for everyone (John 1:29; 1 John 2:2). His death was unlimited. But that does not promote universalism. In order for a spiritually dead person to gain everlasting life, he needs more than the sin barrier to be removed. That simply makes people savable. To be born again, the spiritually dead person needs everlasting life. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ for the free gift of everlasting life have that life. The reason why faith in Christ for everlasting life is the only condition is because at Calvary, Christ took away the sin of the world (John 1:29).
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Well, that was not my question. My question was about the relationship between REAL faith and actions.
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.
Matthew 7:21
What is the will of the Father?
"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
But yes, faith will produce fruit.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The will of the Father is a great many things!
For me, when I was sealed by the Holy Spirit, I received revelation. It was not anything for the world by very personal. Think about the guy who touched the blind Paul after being on the road to Damascus. I was even given a vision.
My choice was a simple one: Obey this supernatural instruction to tell my doctor to delay his missionary trip to Haiti or disregard this imperative. I tell you it was the choice of a life time.
6 months after the fact my doctor informed me that he received ANOTHER unsolicited message to delay the trip. Obeying that directive was the honor of my lifetime. That is saved my soul is besides the point. I know who I am, a child and soldier of God. I will do whatever he will up to the point of death and beyond.
So, when people tell me they believe in God, I know that is just the beginning, that faith without works is dead.
14 Brothers and sisters, it doesn’t make any sense to say you have faith and act in a way that denies that faith. Mere talk never gets you very far, and a commitment to Jesus only in words will not save you. 15 It would be like seeing a brother or sister without any clothes out in the cold and begging for food, and 16 saying, “Shalom, friend, you should get inside where it’s warm and eat something,” but doing nothing about his needs—leaving him cold and alone on the street. What good would your words alone do? 17 The same is true with faith. Without actions, faith is useless. By itself, it’s as good as dead. 18 I know what you’re thinking: “OK, you have faith. And I have actions. Now let’s see your faith without works, and I’ll show you a faith that works.”
James 2:14-18 (VOICE)
Yes, scriptures said “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” But nowhere does it say that Everybody will become a sheep when they call upon the name.
As I have told you, in my reading of scriptures, I see nothing about becoming a sheep by calling upon the name of the Lord.
What I understand in my reading of scriptures with regards about people becoming sheep, is that, by the election of God who makes them to be His sheep.
Tong
R2321
Yes whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Now, let’s find out who are those who call on the name of the Lord. They are those who believe in the Lord. As Paul reasoned in Romans 10:14, “How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?”. Why have they believed? In John 10:27 Jesus said “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” In addition to that, Jesus said this concerning those who do not believe, who obviously do not call upon the name of the Lord. In John 10:26, Jesus said “But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.”
That said, it is my view and I could say that the “whosoever” or “everyone” or “anyone” who calls on the name of the Lord refers Jesus’ sheep. For only His sheep knows His voice.
Tong
R2322
<<<The reconciliation of God and humankind through Jesus Christ.>>>
Glad you know and say that. And reconciliation does not necessarily amount to salvation unto eternal life. Why reconciliation? Because atonement is the appeasement of God and that concerning His wrath against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of all mankind.
<<<"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me (the Messiah), Because He has anointed Me to preach the good news to the poor. He has sent Me to announce release (pardon, forgiveness) to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed.">>>
While that is scriptures and is true, that does not tell us what atonement is Renniks.
<<<How? By being a ransom.
"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”>>>
Ransom is not atonement Renniks. A simple check in any dictionary, even in a Bible dictionary, will show that ransom is not atonement. That passage speaks of what Jesus’ sacrifice of His life was for, more than it was for the atonement for the whole world, that it serves to be a ransom for many.
<<<Who are the many? Who are all?>>>
The many and the all, respectively in Mt.20:28 or Mk.10:45 and 1 Tim.2:6, are those who later will be revealed to have been released or freed by ransom from the penalty of sin. That Christ is said to have ransomed many in Mt.20:28 and Mk.10:45, tells us that the “all” in 1 Tim. 2:6 does not refer to all mankind which is consistent with the rest of the testimony of scriptures that not all are saved from suffering the penalty of sin in the lake of fire.
<<<Christ died for everyone (John 1:29; 1 John 2:2). His death was unlimited.>>>
That’s true. But His death serves not only one purpose, but more. One is to appease God which is atonement for the whole world. Another is to be a ransom for many, that is Jew and Gentile alike, who are His sheep, His people, His church.
Tong
R2323
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Also @Wrangler
To share more light, let me add to that, some important things I think that are often ignored or left out or not so often taught about faith. That faith is a gift that comes from God, and is power received from God, and the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Tong
R2324
Let me share another scriptures in answer to the question you raised.
John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
Tong
R2325
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