The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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OK, in that case, the statement is false.
Receiving the Spirit ( or being filled or any number of like references) in terms of having or not having is akin to the "Kings Seal"
We don't "do" it and nobody "gives" it to us. God does it. This is also when the believer is written in the Book of life.
It can only come from the belief (faith and acceptance) in Jesus as to who and what he is and the resurrection.
Physical water baptism (immersion) is simply a public ceremony. No one is more or less "saved' with or without it.
That's the Cliff Note version
Next acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
“Promise”
what promise?
Exactly what i said earlier try this slight re translation
Be fully saturated ( soaked through to a level of full understanding) in the "name" ( Who and what Jesus is and His sole ability as the living Son of God to Forgive Sin) of Jesus for the remission of sin ( that happens when we go to Him) THEN you will be 'sealed' by the Lord for the Father.
The "promise' is Eternal Life.
He died for the Seed of Abraham !
Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The Lord Jesus Christ died as Our High Priest, that is what the scripture teaches.
Vs 17 above informs us of that. Lets look at some more scripture. Heb 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Notice here that Christ Jesus, the same one as here Phil 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2 Tim 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Is High Priest of our profession !
Heb 5:1
For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Now God had set guidelines for the High Priest. He must take on the Nature and be connected or associated to the race He has their welfare at heart.
He must be taken or selected out of that People. Ps 89:19
Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
So He took on the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16. It also reads :
16 For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the seed of Abraham.
16 For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand].
16 Of course, he isn’t trying to help angels, but rather he’s helping Abraham’s descendants.
16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
You see, the Seed of Abraham has never represented all races of people without exception, but only a particular people, a Chosen People.
Isa 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, JJacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
The word friend here is the hebrew word 'ahab :
to love
a) (Qal)
1) human love for another, includes family, and sexual
2) human appetite for objects such as food, drink, sleep, wisdom
3) human love for or to God
4) act of being a friend
a) lover (participle)
b) friend (participle)
5) God's love toward man
a) to individual men
b) to people Israel
c) to righteousness
The Chosen Seed of Abraham are the ones God so Loved Jn 3:16 !
In fact, Jesus had this very relation in mind when He said this Jn 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
So when Christ came to die for sin, according to the rules of an High Priest, He must come and Identify with the ones He was going to help by His Sacrifice.
So Heb 2:17 further confirms that He was to make reconciliation/ propitiation for the sins of the People, not everyone without exception.
Now interestingly enough, the word reconciliation is the greek word hilaskomai[verb] and means:
to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self
a) to become propitious, be placated or appeased
b) to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful
2) to expiate, make propitiation for
Again, not for everyone without exception, as the false teachers tell us, but for the Seed of Abraham, or the People or His Brethren[not according to the flesh]
So Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole Seed of Abraham 1 Jn 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The word here is the same as that in Heb 2:17 but only in the Noun form. Its hilasmos:
) an appeasing, propitiating
2) the means of appeasing, a propitiation
Now is 1 Jn 2:2 saying anything different as to who the subjects are of this propitiation ? Heb 2:16-17 makes it abundantly clear that its for the sins of the People
The greek here is specific in that it reads Christ's sacrifice is τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ:
Its for the sins of the people. The definite article makes it plain whose sins it was Christ offered Himself for. So 1 Cor 15:3 " our sins" can not mean all people without exception, but it can only mean the sins of the people !
So why does John write for the sins of the whole world here in 1 Jn 2:2 if in fact it means only the Seed of Abraham , a specific chosen race ? Its very simple, because the Seed of Abraham was never confined to only one race of people as in the ethnic jews, which race John was part of along with his readers he wrote to here in 1 Jn, but it [The Seed of Abraham] did include men and women of all nations, spanding the whole World. God made that clear to Abraham here Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
God here is not meaning Abraham's mere physical descendants , for they comprised only one single nation, but God means Abraham's Spiritual descendants of Faith, comprised of all Nations. Remember God said to Abraham Gen 12:3
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Thats what the whole World means in 1 Jn 2:2. It means His Seed of all the families of the Earth, but nevertheless, its still only Abraham's Seed, a Chosen Seed.
All Believers in Christ, People of Faith[Jew or Gentile], are Abraham's Seed the Chosen People Gal 3:29
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
And that is the Seed He came to help Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.512
This cannot be refuted !
Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The Lord Jesus Christ died as Our High Priest, that is what the scripture teaches.
Vs 17 above informs us of that. Lets look at some more scripture. Heb 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Notice here that Christ Jesus, the same one as here Phil 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2 Tim 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Is High Priest of our profession !
Heb 5:1
For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Now God had set guidelines for the High Priest. He must take on the Nature and be connected or associated to the race He has their welfare at heart.
He must be taken or selected out of that People. Ps 89:19
Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
So He took on the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16. It also reads :
16 For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the seed of Abraham.
16 For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand].
16 Of course, he isn’t trying to help angels, but rather he’s helping Abraham’s descendants.
16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
You see, the Seed of Abraham has never represented all races of people without exception, but only a particular people, a Chosen People.
Isa 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, JJacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
The word friend here is the hebrew word 'ahab :
to love
a) (Qal)
1) human love for another, includes family, and sexual
2) human appetite for objects such as food, drink, sleep, wisdom
3) human love for or to God
4) act of being a friend
a) lover (participle)
b) friend (participle)
5) God's love toward man
a) to individual men
b) to people Israel
c) to righteousness
The Chosen Seed of Abraham are the ones God so Loved Jn 3:16 !
In fact, Jesus had this very relation in mind when He said this Jn 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
So when Christ came to die for sin, according to the rules of an High Priest, He must come and Identify with the ones He was going to help by His Sacrifice.
So Heb 2:17 further confirms that He was to make reconciliation/ propitiation for the sins of the People, not everyone without exception.
Now interestingly enough, the word reconciliation is the greek word hilaskomai[verb] and means:
to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self
a) to become propitious, be placated or appeased
b) to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful
2) to expiate, make propitiation for
Again, not for everyone without exception, as the false teachers tell us, but for the Seed of Abraham, or the People or His Brethren[not according to the flesh]
So Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole Seed of Abraham 1 Jn 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The word here is the same as that in Heb 2:17 but only in the Noun form. Its hilasmos:
) an appeasing, propitiating
2) the means of appeasing, a propitiation
Now is 1 Jn 2:2 saying anything different as to who the subjects are of this propitiation ? Heb 2:16-17 makes it abundantly clear that its for the sins of the People
The greek here is specific in that it reads Christ's sacrifice is τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ:
Its for the sins of the people. The definite article makes it plain whose sins it was Christ offered Himself for. So 1 Cor 15:3 " our sins" can not mean all people without exception, but it can only mean the sins of the people !
So why does John write for the sins of the whole world here in 1 Jn 2:2 if in fact it means only the Seed of Abraham , a specific chosen race ? Its very simple, because the Seed of Abraham was never confined to only one race of people as in the ethnic jews, which race John was part of along with his readers he wrote to here in 1 Jn, but it [The Seed of Abraham] did include men and women of all nations, spanding the whole World. God made that clear to Abraham here Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
God here is not meaning Abraham's mere physical descendants , for they comprised only one single nation, but God means Abraham's Spiritual descendants of Faith, comprised of all Nations. Remember God said to Abraham Gen 12:3
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Thats what the whole World means in 1 Jn 2:2. It means His Seed of all the families of the Earth, but nevertheless, its still only Abraham's Seed, a Chosen Seed.
All Believers in Christ, People of Faith[Jew or Gentile], are Abraham's Seed the Chosen People Gal 3:29
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
And that is the Seed He came to help Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.512
This cannot be refuted !
Physical water baptism (immersion) is simply a public ceremony. No one is more or less "saved' with or without it.
where does the scripture say this!
baptism is the means of justification
see below my understanding of terms
where does the scripture say this!
baptism is the means of justification
see below my understanding of terms
Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!
Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!
Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!
Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
i
The promise or sacred oath from God refers to ez 36:25-27
ultimately eternal life but first justification by the sacrament or ritual of baptism
Repentance is required so it CANNOT be faith alone, the command to be baptized (Christian ritual of baptism in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit) is given in the name of Jesus!
the promise (of the father or God)
A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!
Dictionary oath equals sacrament
Ez 36:25 Then will I (God) sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
(Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.)
I hope too that helps @theefaith and those who read that who have the same position and belief as him.
Good post!
Tong
R4017
Are you referring to the baptism with water?
If so, who said that, that you believe that?
Tong
R4018
If you are instructed by the apostles
You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free
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