The one and only Son, who is Himself God

[TonyChanYT]

New King James Version, John 1:

17For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Some older manuscripts have different wording. Berean Standard Bible:

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

God,
Θεὸν (Theon)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

[but the] one and only Son,
μονογενὴς (monogenēs)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 3439: Only, only-begotten; unique. From monos and ginomai; only-born, i.e. Sole.

[ who is Himself ] God
Θεὸς (Theos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

Berean Literal Bible:

No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.

Apostle John understood that Jesus, the Son of God was God. This is one of the clearest textual indications that Jesus Christ is God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

New King James Version, John 1:


Some older manuscripts have different wording. Berean Standard Bible:


God,
Θεὸν (Theon)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

[but the] one and only Son,
μονογενὴς (monogenēs)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 3439: Only, only-begotten; unique. From monos and ginomai; only-born, i.e. Sole.

[ who is Himself ] God
Θεὸς (Theos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

Berean Literal Bible:


Apostle John understood that Jesus, the Son of God was God. This is one of the clearest textual indications that Jesus Christ is God.

I think the Jews understood that the term "son of God" spoke of a kind of theophany in certain circumstances. God sometimes appeared in the form of men, who when they had faith were described as "sons of God."

It is one thing to be created in the image of God, to be like God, our Father. But it is an entirely different thing to appear as a theophany, in the image of God and yet above what is normally considered "Man."

It is striking that the "Son of Man" appears from heaven itself in Dan 7. This is the "superman" conception of the Son of God. It should not surprise us that little effort is made by Jesus to communicate to Jews that the Son of God is the equivalent of Deity. That language was, I think, already assumed in their own religious culture.

When Jesus produced miracles from God on demand and indicated that he was above sin, always doing what the Father did, his language was unmistakably "super-human," or "divine." Jesus' opponents among the Jews clearly understood that.

The "Son of God" was thus a unique language reserved for a Divine Man in certain circumstances. It did not need to be articulated in Trinitarian language. The fact it did get expressed as such later is a product of the fact this theological language had to be interpreted within a non-Jewish environment where there were more "philosophical" concerns.

The theologians within the Roman Empire had little problem describing this unique "Son of God" as Divine. In our own time Humanism would need this to be expressed much as the Apostle John did, "the Word made flesh."

 

[keithr]

Apostle John understood that Jesus, the Son of God was God. This is one of the clearest textual indications that Jesus Christ is God.

No, John didn't believe that Jesus was God. It's certainly not one of the clearest indications if you have to choose a specific translation that has dishonestly added the words "who is Himself God" in order to give that impression, whereas the vast majority of translations translate it with the same meaning as the KJV - "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him".

John wrote, John 20:30-31 (WEB):

(30) Therefore Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book;​

(31) but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.​

Not only that (which is enough to end the argument) he also wrote:

John 1:34 (WEB):

(34) I have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.”​

John 3:16-18 (WEB):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

(17) For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.​

(18) He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.​

John 5:25 (WEB):

(25) Most certainly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God’s voice; and those who hear will live.​

John 9:35

(35) Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and finding him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of God?”​

John 10:36 (WEB):

(36) do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’​

John 19:7 (WEB):

(7) The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.”​

1 John 3:8 (WEB):

(8) He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil.​

1 John 4:15 (WEB):

(15) Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him, and he in God.​

1 John 5:5 (WEB):

(5) Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?​

1 John 5:10 (WEB):

(10) He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who doesn’t believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning his Son.​

[That testimony of God was at Jesus' baptism - Matthew 3:17 (WEB):​

(17) Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”]​

1 John 5:13 (WEB):

(13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.​

1 John 5:20 (WEB):

(20) We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding, that we know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.​

 

[TonyChanYT]

No, John didn't believe that Jesus was God.

See If you don't think that Jesus was God and wish to wager on it, and follow up there

 

[O'Darby]

Jesus was the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity. Even in the most mainstream Trinitarian theology, he "limited" himself in the incarnation. I know of no one who thinks Jesus the man was omniscient and omnipotent ("Hey, Jesus, how do you fix the transmission on a 1965 Ford F-150?"). To me, to try to make Jesus into God introduces more problems than it solves - how was Jesus God but without all the attributes of the second person of the Trinity? A "self-limited" incarnation of God - huh, what?

What does John really say? The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. But the Logos was both a Greek concept and an OT concept (Sophia, the personification of God's wisdom). As different as John's Jesus is from the Jesus of the Synoptics, he never clearly states that Jesus is God. I have a hard time believing that if Jesus were actually God and the doctrine of the Trinity were vitally important, this would not be stated FAR more clearly somewhere in the OT than it actually is.

I have no problem with the notion that Jesus was divine - the progeny of royalty are royal. I have no problem with the mysterious and largely unfathomable doctrine of the Trinity if someone finds this a useful way to think about God. But I do have a problem with those who insist that "Jesus was God" is an absolute Christian essential and that those who hold differing views are ipso facto not Christians.

 

[TonyChanYT]

I have no problem with the notion that Jesus was divine - the progeny of royalty are royal. I have no problem with the mysterious and largely unfathomable doctrine of the Trinity if someone finds this a useful way to think about God. But I do have a problem with those who insist that "Jesus was God" is an absolute Christian essential and that those who hold differing views are ipso facto not Christians.

I neither affirm nor deny Trinity. See
https://www.reddit.com/r/BibleVerseCommentary/comments/tcvci6

 

[keithr]

See If you don't think that Jesus was God and wish to wager on it, and follow up there

No. I've followed up in this thread, commenting on your statement in this thread. I'm not going to comment in a silly thread to gamble in order to demonstrate how confident I am in my beliefs, which is of no use to anybody. I'm sticking to discussing the Bible.

 

[TonyChanYT]

No. I've followed up in this thread, commenting on your statement in this thread. I'm not going to comment in a silly thread to gamble in order to demonstrate how confident I am in my beliefs, which is of no use to anybody. I'm sticking to discussing the Bible.

This is not a lotto/gambling bet. This is a wager to mathematically and scientifically measure the strength of your belief. Put money where your mouth is. If you are interested in mathematically finding out the strength of your belief, then tell me those two weights. See Subjective (Bayesian) Probability and betting.

 

[Spyder]

Many amendments were made to bibles in order to validate the doctrine of the Trinity. This was one of them.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Many amendments were made to bibles in order to validate the doctrine of the Trinity. This was one of them.

Right, BTW, I neither affirm nor deny Trinity.

See If you don't think that Jesus was God and wish to wager on it, and follow up there

 

[APAK]

This is a foolish and intellectually dishonest thread, the type that that will not teach or draw any seeker to God for salvation. It will draw them away because the author of this thread and its supportive contributors cannot or will not look at the context in which John 1:18 is set.

The Son of God has revealed or declared God, his God and our God.

 

[TonyChanYT]

This is a foolish and intellectually dishonest thread

any verse to support your claim?

 

[APAK]

any verse to support your claim?

Any verse aye? Are you kidding me. The words I quoted for you are from John 1:18c; your main verse in your OP.
The Son has declared the Father who is God amen.

Read on if you dare, as John continues in verses 19-30. John describes himself a little more and the man Christ Jesus who is 'before' him or of a higher authority and significance, as written in the previous verse 15 as well. This authority was bestowed upon Christ by his Father, who is God. Now saying that his own Son now is God as well, would be sheer nonsense.

And eventually in John 1: 34 John says that he confirmed, on record, that the Spirit of God who sent/drove John on his mission of baptizing, was the same Spirit now 'on' the Christ, the Son of God. That would also drive Jesus on his mission to the Cross.

Nowhere, not even a hint, in all these verses is the mention of Jesus being God himself, only of the unique title and person of the Son of God, and that is already sufficiently significant of all men who ever lived or would live in the future.

(Joh 1:34) I have seen and have testified that this is the Son of God.

 

[TonyChanYT]

The words I quoted for you are from John 1:18c

Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making. No need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole chapter.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it.

 

[Spyder]

Right, BTW, I neither affirm nor deny Trinity.

See If you don't think that Jesus was God and wish to wager on it, and follow up there

This is not a competition, brother. I have spent years affirming the trinity doctrine out of failure to devote time and effort into research needed to validate it. I simply believed those who claimed to be better educated in scripture than I was. It has not been that long that I discovered my error, and it still causes me pain because of the rejection I have received since i told of my discovery. See, I know that claiming the Yeshua is God is a sin against Yahweh who is.

 

[TonyChanYT]

This is not a competition, brother. I have spent years affirming the trinity doctrine out of failure to devote time and effort into research needed to validate it. I simply believed those who claimed to be better educated in scripture than I was. It has not been that long that I discovered my error, and it still causes me pain because of the rejection I have received since i told of my discovery. See, I know that claiming the Yeshua is God is a sin against Yahweh who is.

Let proposition P1 = Jesus is God.

True?

 

[Cyd]

This is not a competition, brother. I have spent years affirming the trinity doctrine out of failure to devote time and effort into research needed to validate it. I simply believed those who claimed to be better educated in scripture than I was. It has not been that long that I discovered my error, and it still causes me pain because of the rejection I have received since i told of my discovery. See, I know that claiming the Yeshua is God is a sin against Yahweh who is.

Had you taken this scripture into account?
Isaiah 43:

11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour

 

[Spyder]

Had you taken this scripture into account?
Isaiah 43:

11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour

I certainly have. Often I find people claiming that Yeshua is "the savior." Well, depending on one's perspective of the things they have been taught, they could do that. But, in reality, who prophesied and brought the New Covenant? It was no Yeshua, it was Yahweh.

Yahweh is the actual savior, and Yeshua was the sacrifice. True, He is also our example of life according to God's truth, and He is the one who gave us His Father's laws for us to understand in this New Covenant time. He is worthy to be praised, for sure. This is the interlinear version of your reference:

 

[TonyChanYT]

I certainly have. Often I find people claiming that Yeshua is "the savior." Well, depending on one's perspective of the things they have been taught, they could do that. But, in reality, who prophesied and brought the New Covenant? It was no Yeshua, it was Yahweh.

Yahweh is the actual savior, and Yeshua was the sacrifice. True, He is also our example of life according to God's truth, and He is the one who gave us His Father's laws for us to understand in this New Covenant time. He is worthy to be praised, for sure. This is the interlinear version of your reference:

Let proposition P1 = Jesus/Yeshua is our Savior.
True?

 

[Logikos]

New King James Version, John 1:


Some older manuscripts have different wording. Berean Standard Bible:


God,
Θεὸν (Theon)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

[but the] one and only Son,
μονογενὴς (monogenēs)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 3439: Only, only-begotten; unique. From monos and ginomai; only-born, i.e. Sole.

[ who is Himself ] God
Θεὸς (Theos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

Berean Literal Bible:


Apostle John understood that Jesus, the Son of God was God. This is one of the clearest textual indications that Jesus Christ is God.

I'm glad you said "one of" the clearest because the clearest has to be John 1:1

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​