The only source of life and the fallacy of a 'dead' human spirit being 'quickened from death'

[Zao is life]

You keep trying to force a distinction that is not there.

I haven't forced anything - but you keep taking away from scripture a distinction that is there:

"(We are) always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life [zōḗ] also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live | are alive [zao] are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life [zōḗ] also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh." -- 2 Corinthians 4:10-11

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life [zōḗ]: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 John 5:11-12
God has given to us eternal life [zōḗ], and this life [zōḗ] is in His Son. He that has the Son has (eternal) life; and he that has not the Son of God has not (eternal) life [zōḗ].

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life [zōḗ] (which is) in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:3-4
For ye are dead, and your life [zōḗ] is hid with Christ in God.

When Christ, who is our life [zōḗ], shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."

Since the fall mankind possesses natural life within themselves.

Only God possesses life [zoe] in Himself. If each created being had natural life [zoe] "in itself", it would live | be alive [zao] forever.

You are implying that the creature is a God with a life of its own, separate from the breath of life that God gives it. That's what Satan told Eve.

NOTHING EXISTS OF ITSELF. NOTHING HAS LIFE OF ITSELF. THE ORIGIN AND SOURCE OF ALL LIFE IS GOD.

"There is but one God, the Father, of whom are ALL things, and we IN HIM; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we BY him." (1 Corinthians 8:6);

"In Him (God) we live | are alive [zao], and move, and have our being; For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28).

NO GOD, NO BREATH OF LIFE [zoe] and no natural life [zoe] that a creature "possesses" "in itself".

That's how man is able to reproduce natural/physical life to their offspring. Because Scripture says psychḗ (life) comes through spirit (heart, mind, soul, humankind).

You are forcing things into scripture that is not in scripture. Heart, mind soul is not = spirit anywhere in scripture.

The New Testament uses the word psuche in reference to
- the temporal life [zoe] of the creature that is living | alive [zao] +
- the mind of the creature that is living | alive [zao] +
- the soul of the creature that is living | alive [zao],

The word psuche is used interchangeably throughout the New Testament for all three - and only for those three. NEVER as spirit.

ALL babies would be still born if what you say had any truth. It is GOD who gives life [zoe] | the breath of life [zoe] to each new life - but without being born of the Spirit of God | receiving eternal life IN CHRIST from God, that life is not eternal life.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (when the body dies):
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

It's the breath (spirit) of life being referred to by Solomon. The creature does not possess life in itself. The creature is not God.

It is the pneûma (ghost, life, spirit, mind) that zōopoiéō (makes alive) the flesh profits nothing:

zōopoiéō (quickening) is always done by the Spirit OF GOD in the New Testament.

What nonsense is this at you are forcing into scripture?

In the New Testament Ghost = spirit [pneuma] (translated as spirit in newer translations). Life = zoe in the New Testament. The temporal life [zoe], mind and soul of the seed of Adam and Eve is referred to as psuche throughout the New Testament.

- the temporal life [zoe] of the creature that is living | alive [zao] +
- the mind of the creature that is living | alive [zao] +
- the soul of the creature that is living | alive [zao],

The word psuche is used interchangeably throughout the New Testament for all three - and only for those three. NEVER as spirit.

 

[Zao is life]

the words that I speak unto you, are pneûma (ghost, life, spirit, mind), and are zōḗ (life-time).

What you say above seems to be mangled and unbliblical, confused nonsense. I don't even understand what you are implying by the above.

Jesus is referring to the Word of God in that verse, in whom is eternal life [zoe aionios] (John 1:4). Not a temporal life-time, but to the eternal life [zoe aionios] that is in God.

Jesus is the Word in the flesh (John 1:14). Jesus spoke the words of God. The words of God are the Spirit [pneuma] and life [zoe] of God.

"Ghost" and Spirit are the same thing.

(Eternal) Life [zoe] is in the Word of God (John 1:4).

Whose "mind" are you talking about? The human mind does not come into what Jesus said in that verse in any way, shape or form. What "life-time" or whose "life-time" are you talking about?

It's obvious that you are attempting to force something into scripture, but whatever it is, it's so mangled I can't even make head or tail of what you are applying the verse to, or implying Jesus was saying.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

THE CONTEXT OF WHAT JESUS SAID ABOVE IS WHAT HE HAD JUST SAID ABOUT BEING THE LIVING [ZAO] BREAD OF LIFE [ZOE], AND ABOUT THOSE WHO EAT OF HIS FLESH LIVING [ZAO] FOREVER.

HE WAS CONTRASTING PHYSICAL DEATH IN THAT PASSAGE WITH LIVING [ZAO] ("Your fathers ate manna in the desert and are dead")

AND TELLING THEM THAT THE LIFE [ZOE] WHICH SUSTAINS BEING ALIVE [ZAO] IS IN HIM, AND THAT HE IS THEREFORE THE LIVING [ZAO] BREAD FROM HEAVEN.

Those who misunderstood Him thought He was speaking literally about eating His flesh and drinking His blood, so to His disciples who did not walk away at that point - and still talking about the same thing in the context of the passage - Jesus said,

"It is the spirit that quickeneth (zoopoieo - makes alive what was dead); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit [pneuma], and they are life [zoe]."

The Spirit [pneuma] of God quickened (zoopoieo) the dead body of Christ, and Paul taught in different passages, saying the same thing in different ways, that when Jesus died, we died with Him, and when His dead body was quickened by the Spirit of God, we were quickened with Him, and when the Spirit of God raised Him from the dead, we were raised with Him.

Paul was talking about the positional reality in Christ of those who are in Him, and He in them by His Spirit in us

I'm sorry but I don't understand what mangled, garbled meaning of that passage and verse in that passage - which you evidently hold in your own understanding of scripture - you are trying to express.

When man has zoe they are physically alive.

Man has a temporal zoe that God gives to every creature which has the breath of life that is born or hatched into this world (you said so yourself earlier).

But eternal zoe is IN CHRIST ALONE - the Word in whom is life, who becamse flesh, died, and rose again after bearing our sin in His body on the cross, saving us from sin and death - and without being born of the eternal Spirit of God/Christ and Christ coming to dwell in us by His Spirit we cannnot receive eternal life - because it exists in Christ alone.

Zoe comes from záō that also means to live or be lively, active.

The one word is a noun and the other word is a verb. Do you understand the difference between a noun and a verb and why there are two words instead of just one when they are derived from the same root?

Zao (living | being alive | lively) is not the zoe (life) that makes it alive [zao]. Nor is zao the Spirit [pneuma] in whom the life [zoe] exists that gives life [zoe] to what is alive [zao].

NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE OR THE EARTH THAT GOD CREATED CAN HAVE LIFE IN ITSELF. ALL LIFE IS OF GOD AND GIVEN BY GOD.

GOD EXISTS. GOD IS LIFE. GOD IS ALIVE | ACTIVE. HE IS THE LIVING GOD OF THE LIVING WHO ALONE POSSESSES LIFE IN HIMSELF. NOTHING EXISTS OR HAS LIFE OR IS ALIVE UNLESS GOD IS LIVING | ACTIVE AND GIVING WHAT IS ALIVE THE LIFE THAT SUSTAINS IT.

IOW during our lifetime (zoe) we are alive (zao), through spirit, and as long as we possess breath, we live (zoe) and are zao (lively) until we die.

Zoe (life) NEVER refers to living [zao] in the New Testament. EVER. You are forcing that meaning INTO scripture.

Who produced the spirit [penuma] that sustains our living [zao - not dead/nekros] during our temporal LIFE [zoe] - time? Did Adam and Eve produce that spirit? Or did God?

You are still conflating the two. In the New Testament, ζωή (zōē) and ζάω (zaō) are closely related but serve different grammatical and theological roles.

1. ζωή (zōē) - life (noun)

Meaning

1. Zōē refers to life as God has it and gives it.

-- The source of all life [zoe] is God --

* Divine, spiritual, and eternal life
* Life that comes from God and is sustained by Him

* zoe can also be used to denote ordinary creaturely life, not only * eternal * life.
* Eternal Life (zōē aiōnios) is given * in Christ * to fallen human beings.

2. ζάω (zaō) - to live | to be alive (verb)

Meaning

Zaō simply means to live, to be alive, or to continue living.

The word "life" below uses the word psuche for life - the life of the flesh - not the word zoe - and it's not referring to elernal life but also referring the temporal life of the human who is alive but will die. SO WHY ARE YOU STILL USING THIS VERSE AS AN ARGUMENT?

Matthew 6:25 (KJV) Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life [psuche], what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life [psuche] more than meat, and the body than raiment?

I'm sorry but I can't talk to you about this anymore because you are garbling and mangling scripture with your own ideas forced into scripture - using scripture to support what it's not saying, and on top of that you are taking away from scripture what scripture IS saying.

There's too much garbling and mangling, changing of the meaning of words, adding meaning that isn't there, taking away meaning that IS there, taking verses out of context, and putting context that isn't even there into scripture, on your part,

so you won't get anywhere past where you are now, and I can't talk to you about it anymore because you are not speaking without mangling and garbling scripture.

 

[rwb]

Zao is life​

We, many replies ago came to an impasse. Therefore, I have stopped reading your lengthy repetitive replies. Thank you for the discussion, I hope you will take the time to reconsider all that I've said to you. Blessings rwb

 

[Earburner]

I find much I agree with you here but would point out that natural man does not have the Holy Spirit for life, but they still possess mortal life through spirit naturally in them.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The connection you speak of that man lost when they sinned is the Holy Spirit. That's why man came under condemnation of death and would no longer physically live forever. If the Holy Spirit had not departed from man when they sinned, mankind would not have become destined to die, because the life we receive from the Holy Spirit is never ending (eternal spiritual life). That's why we must be born again of the Spirit to again possess not only eternal spiritual life now; in this age of time, but also immortal physical life we shall possess when Christ comes again.

From the moment A&E disobeyed God, being deceived, the Spirit that gave them everlasting life departed, and the spirit in man made them natural and of another master the Devil.

Moses, the author of Genesis, was no student of Biology or Chemistry, and therefore was as dumb as a rock in describing what "the breath of life" is.
Moses called it the breath of life, which is to say that though he was very close in his description, he had no idea of how to describe what "breathing" and "breath" actually is. So in that moment of their creation, they were not given an Eternal Immortal Soul, nor the Gift of the Holy Spirit. We must cease with the religious nonsense!!

Unfortunately, Religion has deceived us all, by imposing their "upper seat" mentality in stating that God "breathed" into Adam an "Eternal Immortal Soul". Honestly, that statement is as equal to Satan's: "Ye shall not surely die:..."
Gen. 3:4.

It's more simple than you and @zao realize. A&E were created as innocent, mortal beings that breathed "the breath of life", aka Oxygenated air.

Innocent?? Yes. A&E had NO knowledge of evil or good. A&E had not yet partaken of the Tree of good & evil.

Now, what people do not consider is....A&E NEVER did partake of "The Tree of Life", who was Jesus in His Eternal state.
A&E were NEVER given anything that would enable them to have an eternal existence of any kind!! In fact, they were booted out of the Garden, "lest he....(you can finish the rest). Gen. 3:22-24

 

[rwb]

Moses, the author of Genesis, was no student of Biology or Chemistry, and therefore was as dumb as a rock in describing what "the breath of life" is.
Moses called it the breath of life, which is to say that though he was very close in his description, he had no idea of how to describe what "breathing" and "breath" actually is. So in that moment of their creation, they were not given an Eternal Immortal Soul, nor the Gift of the Holy Spirit. We must cease with the religious nonsense!!

I don't believe Moses was as dumb as a rock! I believe he wrote as he was motivated through the power of God. It isn't religious nonsense to understand whom our breath of life originates from. Man was not created to die! They chose death over life because they were given a free choice to obey God and live or disobey God and die. Man with total autonomy will never freely choose to submit to another, not even to the Creator for life. But God, from before the foundation of the world knew that creating man with free moral agency would mean a death sentence for them, had a plan, a Covenant in place to save whosoever He wills through the precious blood of the Lamb before He created them. That's why Scripture tells us that Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's more simple than you and @zao realize. A&E were created as innocent, mortal beings that breathed "the breath of life", aka Oxygenated air.

The oxygenated air that man breathed at creation came from the Spirit of God breathed into them! As long as the air they breathed came from the Holy Spirit in them, they could NOT die! But alas, man was left physically alive to grow old and die when they chose to breathe natural air and became the same as every other living breathing creature alive upon the face of the earth. That's because when they disobeyed God, the Holy Spirit departed from them leaving them with another spirit that is of this world, an evil spirit. Which is how from the moment they ate of the forbidden tree their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked (knew evil).

1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Mankind was created uniquely in the likeness and image of God, and it was through this unique creation that the air they breathed for immortal life, unlike the natural air all other living creatures breathe, came from the breath of God as God breathed into them!

Now, what people do not consider is....A&E NEVER did partake of "The Tree of Life", who was Jesus in His Eternal state.
A&E were NEVER given anything that would enable them to have an eternal existence of any kind!! In fact, they were booted out of the Garden, "lest he....(you can finish the rest). Gen. 3:22-24

They did not eat from the tree of life to sustain immortal life, but God provided Himself a Lamb! The blood of coats of skins of animals God provided for them, symbolically representing the blood of Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Before driving them from the garden, God covered their nakedness and as we continue to read of the generation of A&E we discover they learned well the meaning of good and evil, and how both are always present within mankind through their offspring. One son was good the other evil! And this would be the fate of all mankind from creation to the end of this world.

Genesis 3:21 (KJV) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

 

[Earburner]

I don't believe Moses was as dumb as a rock! I believe he wrote as he was motivated through the power of God. It isn't religious nonsense to understand whom our breath of life originates from. Man was not created to die! They chose death over life because they were given a free choice to obey God and live or disobey God and die. Man with total autonomy will never freely choose to submit to another, not even to the Creator for life. But God, from before the foundation of the world knew that creating man with free moral agency would mean a death sentence for them, had a plan, a Covenant in place to save whosoever He wills through the precious blood of the Lamb before He created them. That's why Scripture tells us that Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.



The oxygenated air that man breathed at creation came from the Spirit of God breathed into them! As long as the air they breathed came from the Holy Spirit in them, they could NOT die! But alas, man was left physically alive to grow old and die when they chose to breathe natural air and became the same as every other living breathing creature alive upon the face of the earth. That's because when they disobeyed God, the Holy Spirit departed from them leaving them with another spirit that is of this world, an evil spirit. Which is how from the moment they ate of the forbidden tree their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked (knew evil).

1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Mankind was created uniquely in the likeness and image of God, and it was through this unique creation that the air they breathed for immortal life, unlike the natural air all other living creatures breathe, came from the breath of God as God breathed into them!



They did not eat from the tree of life to sustain immortal life, but God provided Himself a Lamb! The blood of coats of skins of animals God provided for them, symbolically representing the blood of Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Before driving them from the garden, God covered their nakedness and as we continue to read of the generation of A&E we discover they learned well the meaning of good and evil, and how both are always present within mankind through their offspring. One son was good the other evil! And this would be the fate of all mankind from creation to the end of this world.

Genesis 3:21 (KJV) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Do you believe in an Eternal burning Hell of some sort? Here is the CAUSE of why you MUST BELIEVE in an Eternal burning Hell:
for 2000+/- years, the religion of church-ianity has severely duped and decieved Christians so badly and deeply, that even the Holy Spirit of Truth is drowned out by the repetitive Pagan mantra, that God gave to man an Eternal Immortal Soul.

It is so much of a foul belief, that Christians actually believe that HELL (the grave/pit) is an ETERNAL place where God keeps people alive forever in Eternal, unending torment. Really? WHY??
Because many still do believe the false doctrine that God gave man an Eternally living Immortal Soul!

Such an evil and dastardly concept is not at all biblical. Yet billions upon billions of people have believed in church-ianity's FEAR TACTIC of something like the pagan concept of Dante's Inferno".
WHY?
Because they were falsely led to believe by church-ianity that man was given an Eternal, Immortal Soul.
Q1. Therefore, if one has an Eternal, Immortal Soul from God, where shall it exist and live forever, if it cannot ever be with God?
Q2. Since eternal existence and/or eternal life can only come from God, does it follow that God ALONE enjoys tormenting people, or rather He cannot end the Eternal Immortal Soul that He created, and therefore suffers forever with them?
Q3. Is God therefore the source and cause of all suffering for lost Eternal Immortal Souls??
Q4. Do you not see the stupidity of believing that man was given an Eternal Immortal Soul?

Dante's 9 Circles of Hell: A Guide to the Structure of 'Inferno'

Here's a structural overview of the nine circles of hell in the first part of the Italian poet Dante Alighier's "Divine Comedy."

www.thoughtco.com

@rwb said:
"The oxygenated air that man breathed at creation came from the Spirit of God breathed into them! As long as the air they breathed came from the Holy Spirit in them, they could NOT die!"
@Earburner reply:
Wrong!!! You are saying that the Oxygenated air came from the Holy Spirit within A&E, and not by the pulmonary action of breathing the Oxygenated air in the atmosphere, by their use of their own lungs.
Please STOP with religious nonsense of church-ianity. Give yourself a chance to hear the LIE they have heaped upon you, so that you can escape its evil grasp.

 

[rwb]

2000 years of the religion of church-ianity has severely duped and decieved Christians so badly and deeply, that even the Holy Spirit of Truth is drowned out by the repetitive Pagan mantra that God gave to man an Eternal Immortal Soul.

It is so much of a foul belief, that Christians actually believe that HELL (the grave/pit) is an ETERNAL place where God keeps people alive forever in Eternal, unending torment. WHY?
Because many still do believe the false doctrine that God gave man an Eternally living Immortal Soul!

Such an evil and dastardly concept is not at all biblical. Yet billions upon billions of people have believed in church-ianity's FEAR TACTIC.

What God at creation gave to man was ETERNAL spiritual life by breathing Himself into them, that together with body created from dust of the earth became "living souls." The body of dust was not of itself eternal or immortal! But man could have lived forever IF they had not disobeyed God. Because there would not be sin, and death through sin if man had obeyed God! But they did not, therefore sin, and death through sin was introduced into creation, and man was ordained to DIE! That's why if man desires to once again possess ETERNAL spiritual life they MUST BE BORN AGAIN through God, the Spirit entering into them again!

No man shall have immortal life through eternal spirit until the last trumpet sounds. Then whosoever was born again before death shall be bodily resurrected IMMORTAL through life from our ETERNAL spirit that returns with Christ.

 

[Zao is life]

Moses, the author of Genesis, was no student of Biology or Chemistry, and therefore was as dumb as a rock in describing what "the breath of life" is.

Jude said something about people who reject authority and speak evil of dignities, saying that they do not understand the things they slander, and they are being destroyed by the very things that, like irrational animals, they instinctively comprehend.

In Him (the Word of God) was life and the the life is the of men. All things were made by Him. In Him we live and move and have our being.

Life was in God from before the creation and there is no life apart from God.

When the body dies the dust shall return to the earth as it was and the spirit to the God who gave it.

There is a difference between having only the temporal life (the breath of life) given to a mortal, and having the eternal life which exists in the Word, which the Son of God - the Man Jesus Christ - alone possesses in Himself, which is given in Christ to those who have been born of His Spirit.

How easily you call those who penned the scriptures "dumb as a rock" about the things they spoke about when what they said disagrees with your own personal doctrines, is very, very telling indeed.

 

[Zao is life]

2000 years of the religion of church-ianity has severely duped and decieved Christians so badly and deeply, that even the Holy Spirit of Truth is drowned out by the repetitive Pagan mantra that God gave to man an Eternal Immortal Soul.

It is so much of a foul belief, that Christians actually believe that HELL (the grave/pit) is an ETERNAL place where God keeps people alive forever in Eternal, unending torment. WHY?
Because many still do believe the false doctrine that God gave man an Eternally living Immortal Soul!

Such an evil and dastardly concept is not at all biblical. Yet billions upon billions of people have believed in church-ianity's FEAR TACTIC of something like the pagan concept of Dante's Inferno".
WHY?
Because they were falsely led to believe by church-ianity that man was given an Eternal, Immortal Soul.

Dante's 9 Circles of Hell: A Guide to the Structure of 'Inferno'

Here's a structural overview of the nine circles of hell in the first part of the Italian poet Dante Alighier's "Divine Comedy."

www.thoughtco.com

When Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead:

Did you know that in Leviticus 17:11, the same word that is used for the soul also refers to the life of the flesh?

"For the life [Hebrew: nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [nephesh | Greek: psuchḗ]." (Leviticus 17:11).

Did you know that in the New Testament, the Greek word psuche (also spelled psychḗ) is used interchangeably for:

- The soul; and
- The mind; and
- The life of the flesh?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (breath of life) shall return unto God who gave it.

When Jesus raised a young girl from the dead, we read in the Bible that "her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat." (Luke 8:55).

Where was her spirit after she died?

God is the only source of life. Ever since Adam sinned and began to die, when created human beings are born into the world, we are not born with a life [zoe] that's eternal; and because a created human being does not have eternal life [zoe ainios] in itself, then after the body has died (because the created human being is no longer alive) the spirit of life [zoe] (breath of life) goes back to its source.

What happens to the soul? Does it die with the body?

"Do not fear, I am the First and the Last,
and the Living [zao] One, and I became dead,
and behold, I am alive [zao] for ever and ever, Amen.
And I have the keys of hades and of death."
(Revelation 1:17-18)

"For to this end Christ both died [apothnesko]
and rose [anistemi: resurrection of the body]
and lived again [anazao - alive in the body],
that He might be Lord both of the dead [nekros] and living" [zao: alive in the body]."​

When Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (Jesus, John 6:63).

In 1 Corinthians Chapter 15:22 Paul wrote the following:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be quickened [zoopoieo]." (The context of Paul's words are his teaching on the resurrection).

Therefore it is written,

"God has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made visible by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ,

- who has broken the power of death, and has brought life (zoe) and immortality to light through the gospel." (2 Timothy 1:9-10).

So Paul can say to those whose bodies die while they are believing in Christ:

"Being always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord; for we walk by faith, not by sight; then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord. Therefore we are also laboring to be well-pleasing to Him, whether at home or away from home." (2 Corinthians 5:6-9).

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [zoe]; and man became a living [zao] soul / living being." (Genesis 2:7).

The spirit (breath of life) goes back to its source when the body dies - to Christ in whom is life [zoe] - who is in the bosom of the Father.

The soul of the one whose body dies while they are believing in Christ goes to be where the spirit (breath of life) given by God is. How can you say the soul is dead because the body is dead? Did the soul of the Man Jesus Christ die because His body died? No, because it is written that when Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead.

But you call Moses "dumb as a rock" so if you speak thus of the prophet of God, it's no wonder you do not understand, because clearly, you do not believe the written Word of God when it disagrees with your own beliefs.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you believe in an eternal burning Hell of some sort?
Here is exactly the reason why you MUST BELIEVE that:
2000+/- years of the religion of church-ianity has severely duped and decieved Christians so badly and deeply, that even the Holy Spirit of Truth is drowned out by the repetitive Pagan mantra that God gave to man an Eternal Immortal Soul.

It is so much of a foul belief, that Christians actually believe that HELL (the grave/pit) is an ETERNAL place where God keeps people alive forever in Eternal, unending torment. WHY?
Because many still do believe the false doctrine that God gave man an Eternally living Immortal Soul!

Such an evil and dastardly concept is not at all biblical. Yet billions upon billions of people have believed in church-ianity's FEAR TACTIC of something like the pagan concept of Dante's Inferno".

It is completely biblical and you can't prove otherwise. While I don't believe people literally burn physically in hell and later the lake of fire, it's a fact that people will experience eternal torment in the lake of fire, regardless of what the eternal torment entails.

Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:....46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Zao is life]

Do you believe in an Eternal burning Hell of some sort? Here is the reason of why you MUST BELIEVE in an Eternal burning Hell:

2000+/- years of the religion of church-ianity has severely duped and decieved Christians so badly and deeply, that even the Holy Spirit of Truth is drowned out by the repetitive Pagan mantra that God gave to man an Eternal Immortal Soul.

It is so much of a foul belief, that Christians actually believe that HELL (the grave/pit) is an ETERNAL place where God keeps people alive forever in Eternal, unending torment. Really? WHY??
Because many still do believe the false doctrine that God gave man an Eternally living Immortal Soul!

In the New Testament, the things that are written about "gehennah" and "the lake of fire" in Revelation 14:9-11 are both found to represent an everlasting punishment.

The gospels use the Greek word geena (Hebrew gehennah) every time Jesus is recorded as talking about an everlasting punishment.

Gehennah: Matthew 10:28; Matthew 5:29-30; Matthew 23:15 & 33; Luke 12:5; James 3:6.

Gehennah of fire: Matthew 5:21-22; Matthew 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45 & 47.

Mark 9:43 records Jesus speaking about the gehennah as "the fire that shall never be quenched".

In your opinion, was Jesus speaking figuratively about the "never being quenched" part? If so, what ELSE was He implying by those words?

For me, if I "err" I'd much rather err on the side of the things that Jesus said and what the Revelation says, without assuming they mean something other than what they imply.

 

[Earburner]

When Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead:

Did you know that in Leviticus 17:11, the same word that is used for the soul also refers to the life of the flesh?

"For the life [Hebrew: nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [nephesh | Greek: psuchḗ]." (Leviticus 17:11).

Did you know that in the New Testament, the Greek word psuche (also spelled psychḗ) is used interchangeably for:

- The soul; and
- The mind; and
- The life of the flesh?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (breath of life) shall return unto God who gave it.

When Jesus raised a young girl from the dead, we read in the Bible that "her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat." (Luke 8:55).

Where was her spirit after she died?

God is the only source of life. Ever since Adam sinned and began to die, when created human beings are born into the world, we are not born with a life [zoe] that's eternal; and because a created human being does not have eternal life [zoe ainios] in itself, then after the body has died (because the created human being is no longer alive) the spirit of life [zoe] (breath of life) goes back to its source.

What happens to the soul? Does it die with the body?

"Do not fear, I am the First and the Last,
and the Living [zao] One, and I became dead,
and behold, I am alive [zao] for ever and ever, Amen.
And I have the keys of hades and of death."
(Revelation 1:17-18)

"For to this end Christ both died [apothnesko]
and rose [anistemi: resurrection of the body]
and lived again [anazao - alive in the body],
that He might be Lord both of the dead [nekros] and living" [zao: alive in the body]."​

When Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (Jesus, John 6:63).

In 1 Corinthians Chapter 15:22 Paul wrote the following:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be quickened [zoopoieo]." (The context of Paul's words are his teaching on the resurrection).

Therefore it is written,

"God has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made visible by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ,

- who has broken the power of death, and has brought life (zoe) and immortality to light through the gospel." (2 Timothy 1:9-10).

So Paul can say to those whose bodies die while they are believing in Christ:

"Being always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord; for we walk by faith, not by sight; then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord. Therefore we are also laboring to be well-pleasing to Him, whether at home or away from home." (2 Corinthians 5:6-9).

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [zoe]; and man became a living [zao] soul / living being." (Genesis 2:7).

The spirit (breath of life) goes back to its source when the body dies - to Christ in whom is life [zoe] - who is in the bosom of the Father.

The soul of the one whose body dies while they are believing in Christ goes to be where the spirit (breath of life) given by God is. How can you say the soul is dead because the body is dead? Did the soul of the Man Jesus Christ die because His body died? No, because it is written that when Jesus died, His Spirit did not die: His body was buried and His soul went into hades (Acts 2:27), where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18-20), and His dead body, being quickened [zoopoieo] (made alive by the Spirit), was raised from the dead.

But you call Moses "dumb as a rock" so if you speak thus of the prophet of God, it's no wonder you do not understand, because clearly, you do not believe the written Word of God when it disagrees with your own beliefs.

Unfortunately in the religiosity of your ways, you over speak and over produce verifiable scripture to prove your point so much so, that it is a virtual chore to listen to you.
Try to be more brief and to the point. Lose the religious overtones of how one believes in the written word, as opposed to those who Worship the written word.

By the way, I agree to most what you say about "the life of the flesh is in the blood".
However that life of the flesh IS Oxygenated Air. If you doubt that, then be sure to ask a person in the medical field. I'm sure they will be able to fully explain it to you.

As for Moses, well as you know, "knowledge [has] increased", and from this side of that fence, he really was dumb as a rock! No offense to him and his time zone.

 

[Earburner]

In the New Testament, the things that are written about "gehennah" and "the lake of fire" in Revelation 14:9-11 are both found to represent an everlasting punishment.

The gospels use the Greek word geena (Hebrew gehennah) every time Jesus is recorded as talking about an everlasting punishment.

Gehennah: Matthew 10:28; Matthew 5:29-30; Matthew 23:15 & 33; Luke 12:5; James 3:6.

Gehennah of fire: Matthew 5:21-22; Matthew 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45 & 47.

Mark 9:43 records Jesus speaking about the gehennah as "the fire that shall never be quenched".

In your opinion, was Jesus speaking figuratively about the "never being quenched" part? If so, what ELSE was He implying by those words?

For me, if I "err" I'd much rather err on the side of the things that Jesus said and what the Revelation says, without assuming they mean something other than what they imply.

There is the difference between everlasting punishment and everlasting punishing.
One is permanent, the other is on going.

So now, the word everlasting needs to be applied to both forms of the word to "punish".
Of the two choices, which one appears to be the form that is of the Character of God?
1. Everlasting punishing?
2. Everlasting punishment?

If you believe that man was given an Eternal Immortal Soul, then you most likely will choose answer #1.

But if you believe that man, apart from the Spirit of Christ, is only an Oxygen breathing mere mortal, then most likely you will choose answer #2

 

[Earburner]

Mankind was created uniquely in the likeness and image of God, and it was through this unique creation that the air they breathed for immortal life, unlike the natural air all other living creatures breathe, came from the breath of God as God breathed into them!

Actually, God and the KJV Bible have a problem with your concept.
Gen. 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and [God] breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen. 7
[21] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
[22] ALL [living souls] in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died [drowned, suffocated].

Did the fowls, cattle, the beasts, creeping things and every man, who have the breath of life in their nostrils become living souls, at the time of their creation and/or birth?
Of course!! The breath of life is Oxygenated air.

 

[Earburner]

It is completely biblical and you can't prove otherwise. While I don't believe people literally burn physically in hell and later the lake of fire, it's a fact that people will experience eternal torment in the lake of fire, regardless of what the eternal torment entails.

Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:....46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This simple truth have I learned about the scriptures and denominationalism:
"ALL of the churches have some of His Truth, but none of the churches have ALL of His Truth."

I think that Rev. 14:9 is the key verse whereby the Holy Spirit can specifically reveal the truth, of which is witnessed to and verified in 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the [literal] presence of the holy angels and in the [literal] presence of the Lamb
[during the 24 hr. Day of Jesus' Glorious, literal and visible return from Heaven in [fiery] flaming fire].

11 And the SMOKE OF of their torment [burning up of their flesh] ascends forever and ever [Carbon atoms leaving earth's atmosphere, of which are never destroyed]; and they have no rest day or night [the period of 24 hours of Jesus physical presence from Heaven], who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

By the way, did you know that when Lot left Sodom in the morning, he traveled all night and reached Zoar in the next morning, of which was a period of 24 hours. In the context of those scriptures, during the same morning, Abraham arose from sleep and witnessed the burning smoke of Sodom afar off. A witness that it was 24 hours!
About Lot and Jesus' return, I think Luke 17:26-30 sums it up perfectly!

 

[Earburner]

What God at creation gave to man was ETERNAL spiritual life by breathing Himself into them,

I purposely cut your post short so that I can point out the MOST important understanding that Christians can discover, besides that of Christ Himself. It shall discern the difference between the belief of having an "Eternal Immortal Soul" as opposed to being a "mortal living soul".

All land dwelling animals have in their "nostrils" "the breath of life", aka Oxygenated air. It is "the life of the flesh", for all that do have "the breath of life".
Is that "a play on words"? No!! It is the unadulterated truth!


Please see my post #54.
Please read/study KJV Gen. 2:7; Gen. 7:21-22 and the first sentence of Lev. 17:11

 

[rwb]

Gen. 7
[21] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
[22] ALL [living souls] in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died [drowned, suffocated].

Animals have not the immortal breath of God breathed in them, they are alive through natural breath that every living creature, including mankind is born with since the fall. You added [living souls] but only mankind with body and God's breath (Spirit) breathed into them became living souls. Animals are created with body of flesh with a breath for life [spirit], but they did not become living souls.

ALL flesh upon the earth died in the flood. That is ALL having in their nostrils the natural breath of life died in the flood. Animals alive through natural oxygenated air filling their lungs are never called "living souls". Animals possess only body of flesh + spirit breath of life!

Genesis 7:22 (KJV) All in whose nostrils was the breath of life [natural spirit], of all that was in the dry land, died.

Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1 Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Re 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

 

[rwb]

It shall discern the difference between the belief of having an "Eternal Immortal Soul" as opposed to being a "mortal living soul".

Nowhere does Scripture teach, nor do I, that man is an "Eternal Immortal Soul"! Man was created with eternal life through the Spirit of God in them. That eternal life together with our body of dust became a LIVING SOUL and was not ordained to die until they disobeyed God and brought sin and death through sin into creation. The only way that any man shall ever become IMMORTAL LIVING SOUL is through our resurrected body made alive again (immortal) through our eternal spirit that returns with Christ, through the power of God. The reason this is true is because man disobeyed God and destined to physically die because the flesh of man is mortal, not immortal.

This is why man MUST BE BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT, and while physically after being born again, spiritually alive (not immortal life), then when the last trumpet sounds, our mortal body shall be resurrected or raised (depending on whether dead or still living on that day) changed to immortal and incorruptible body of flesh made alive through our eternal (not immortal) spirit that returns with Christ that our immortal body shall once again be complete "living souls" no longer under the sentence of death.

 

[Zao is life]

However that life of the flesh IS Oxygenated Air. If you doubt that, then be sure to ask a person in the medical field. I'm sure they will be able to fully explain it to you.

No one speaking from pure medical science is going to talk about the fact that nothing that has breath has life "just because it's breathing".

God, who exists from eternity unto eternity, is a Spirit (John 4:24) and the source of ALL existence, and ALL life [zoe]. Nothing that exists does not exist in God, through God, and by the Word of God - including the life of the creature. No God, no creature, no life.

In Him (God) we live | are alive [zao], and move, and have our being; For we are also his offspring. (Acts 17:28).

If it were not so, then it would make no difference to us whether or not a man named Jesus was born in creation, lived and died and rose again.

 

[Zao is life]

I purposely cut your post short so that I can point out the MOST important understanding that Christians can discover, besides that of Christ Himself. It shall discern the difference between the belief of having an "Eternal Immortal Soul" as opposed to being a "mortal living soul".

All land dwelling animals have in their "nostrils" "the breath of life", aka Oxygenated air. It is "the life of the flesh", for all that do have "the breath of life".
Is that "a play on words"? No!! It is the unadulterated truth!


Please see my post #54.
Please read/study KJV Gen. 2:7; Gen. 7:21-22 and the first sentence of Lev. 17:11

The creature does not exist of itself.