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The Origins of Islam

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by HammerStone, Mar 26, 2007.

  1. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Over 10 years ago, Robert Morey wrote about the origins of Allah and Islam. His was was "discredited" by those who had an agenda against the idea for the obvious reasons. It's funny how shoddy work is branded "higher criticism" of the Bible but if it dares to explain Islam...well, you know how it goes. It's an "honest mistake" if something finally does get caught. I was just doing some reading and it's interesting. I think the biggest thing for me is how Islam is so closely related to the crescent. I started looking into things and the Arab race worshiped a moon god prior to the invent of Islam. The god was called Hilal. Curiously enough, there was another god that bore the title "el llah." Both of these are unmistakingly close to the modern day Allah. Critics argued that modern language is not the same as the ancient, but it's funny how Hebrew to English seems to be the exception. To me it's more the rule. You can trace, for example, the term Saxon back in history. It literally returns to "Sons of Isaac." It was first Sacae and then Sac's Sons. Romans 9:6-7Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. The meaning still holds to this day, even in the corruption. Ever been to Bethlehem, PA or CT? The point is obvious. Getting back to the topic; has anyone done a study on this?
     
  2. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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  3. kendal

    kendal New Member

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  4. MUSTAFAA

    MUSTAFAA New Member

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    Hello Kendal, I went to the link you posted and found it very interesting… it seem to be trying to draw a connections between all the major religions having some sort of secrete society behind them. These secrete society manipulate the lower ranks and dupe them into believing that they are worshiping God… I find that to be true about a lot of organize religions, but I wonder why he kept saying he was just “speculating” and this was just “speculation” but I did notice that he left out christen religion as having any pagan aspects. I find it hard to believe that early christens who were heavily influence by the powers of Rome and Judaism and pagan worship all around them would escape untouched by the influence.I also have heard about the pre-Islamic connection to paganism and the name Allah actually being a pagan God. When I practiced Islam I always wonder why the trip to Mecca was something that had to be done by every Muslim who could afford to. And I must admit I had several chances to make the trip but I found it to have too many sacred relicts that seem to me, anyway, just to be another from of idle worship. I must say that I have never been the type to need any other form or person or object to worship other then God the unseen spirit. That being said it reminds me of the story of King Solomon and his 700 wives and 300 concubines (1kings 11:3) and how he built temples of worship to all of their Gods… I guess some of the pagan rituals, and idol worship can be found in all religions. Just a thought… 1ki 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
     
  5. kendal

    kendal New Member

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    You are correct, actually i believe the lecturer does talk about alot of the errors and pagan traditions in Christianity in different lectures. His whole purpose in lecturing is exposing the deceptions in both Christianity and the world, you can't always believe what people say though, so do your own study too !!!And it is true, Christmas is a pagan holiday for example. The 25th of December originally was the birth of Tammuz, and there is evidence that for atleast 600 years before Jesus, this event was celebrated on the 25th.That day is just another day. Nothing wrong with talking about Jesus birth that day, nothing wrong with giving to people who are needy on that day. But the whole idea about Christmas, from the tree to the presents has its pagan origins.Also, i saw on another thread you were asking about Bible versions, try seaching in video.google.com "battle of the Bibles" or "changing the word" and you can find similar presentations about this topic.God bless!!
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    All religions were created for Man by Man Some christian based religions were created for fellowship others based on interpretations of scripture. The thing to remember is Christianity is not a religion it is a way of life based on Gods Laws(commandments) and a believe in Christ. Although this is the starting point for most christian religions, then all seem to go their own directions some right some not so right. Then their are the religions based on men's writings and other books or other Men. I find and this site tries to Always stay in his word the Bible as the final authority and not religion.
     
  7. clong831

    clong831 New Member

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    Amen!!!!! To that and may we always remeber that its not the religion or the "things to do" but the close relationship we are seeking with Jesus Christ. Also King Solomon was wrong to make temples to the false gods he allowed his wives to bring into his life and that was Judism not Christianity. As the Bible says "his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God".
     
  8. radiofreethinking

    radiofreethinking New Member

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    (kriss;8294)
    The thing to remember is Christianity is not a religion it is a way of life based on Gods Laws(commandments) and a believe in Christ.
    You are aware the everyone saids the same thing about their own religion, right?Fun with google:Islam is not a religion, but a way of lifeBuddhism is not a religion, but a way of lifeHinduism is not a religion, but a way of lifeJudaism is not a religion, but a way of lifeSikhism is not a religion, but a way of lifePaganism is not a religion, but a way of life
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    No ,and I doubt they do say this, I think that is your opinion.I believe the opposite is true I have heard all these say they are the right religion but All the religions you have stated above are just that by definition Religions created by Men.And all claim to be just that.With the exception of Judaism which is the root of Christianity and based in the word of God.Although many Jews as christains have strayed from his word.The fact remains that Only the Bible claims to be the word of God.
     
  10. radiofreethinking

    radiofreethinking New Member

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    (kriss;8323)
    No ,and I doubt they do say this, I think that is your opinion.
    Did you look at any of the links I posted? Whether you choose to believe it or not it is a common phrase by people of many different faiths. The point being that their religion is not supposed to be something praticed certin days of the week or year, but all the time. But since most if not all religions take this stance anyway, the distinction between "religion" and "way of life" does not seem to be very much.(kriss;8323)
    I believe the opposite is true I have heard all these say they are the right religion but...
    And I have heard Christans say Christanity is the right religion. Both are common sayings in many religions.(kriss;8323)
    All the religions you have stated above are just that by definition Religions created by Men....
    From the point of view of a believer in religion X, all non-X religions are created by Men. After all why would a god create a false religion.(kriss;8323)
    ....And all claim to be just that.
    I doubt Islam claims not be of divine origin. If you have evidence otherwise, please show me.(kriss;8323)
    The fact remains that Only the Bible claims to be the word of God.
    Not true:From wikipedia: "Muslims believe the Qur'an to be the book of divine guidance and direction for mankind, consider the text in its original Arabic, to be the literal word of God."
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    This is pretty typical thinking of and atheist you have no comprehension of what I am saying because you are to busy trying to lump all beliefs of things together as the same thing. The difference is if you can get this, is you can be "NO" religion and be a Christian, but you can not be a Buddist,Muslim,Catholic,Morman ext. and not be of that religion. I realize this concept is very hard for you to get. This is what I mean about a way of life. These religions may claim this, but its in a different context. Having to practice man made rules to worship a deity may become a way of living within a religion. But it has nothing to do with God. Christianity is based on the kind of person you are whats in your heart. Not on how/when you pray.
     
  12. MUSTAFAA

    MUSTAFAA New Member

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    Islam being the last “Religion” I gave my allegiance to… I can testify that we have the same statement in Islam. “Its not a religion but a way of like”, that’s not to say that it’s not also the religion of Islam (peace), but it means to make one treat it as not mere words on a page but a way of life. One other point, how you can claim that Christianity is the only religion from God is to me very narrow minded, in my view. Islam even if not a true religion from God in your opinion, does say that it is a revelation form God through the prophet Muhammad. But you have the right to make any statement of belief you like. But remember it’s just that a statement of your belief which may or may not be true. This I think is the problem in all religions, statements of belief or often times taking as truth or the proof of truth.
     
  13. MUSTAFAA

    MUSTAFAA New Member

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    Re: kriss Quote: “This is pretty typical thinking of and atheist you have no comprehension of what I am saying because you are to busy trying to lump all beliefs of things together as the same thing.The difference is if you can get this, is you can be "NO" religion and be a Christian, but you can not be a Buddist, Muslim, Catholic, Morman ext. and not be of that religion.” End Quote Again I think your making statements about things you don’t seem to know much about… when one say’s that he follows the Religion of Islam, which means peace, he is consider a Muslim. Muslim means… “One who submits his will to the will of God” this is why you hear some Muslims say that every person on earth is a Muslim and doesn’t know it… The reason for this statement is that God has set in play certain laws of human living that no person can live with out following… breathing; aging; dieing… etc and as long as man does these things then he is submitting his will to the will of God. [/SIZE] Now like I stated the word "Muslim" means "one who submits his will to the will of God"... so as some Muslims logic tells them we all are Muslim. This was not stated as a trick question just general Info for better understanding of what some Muslims believe.
     
  14. Shingy

    Shingy New Member

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    Radiofreethinking is correct on all points. Arguing semantics(sic), I don't think anyone has to be 'religious' to believe in a God. All that is requires are the fundaments: faith and spirituality, coprrect me if I'm wrong. Spirituality is a quest seeking to answer the big questions. I personally know a Muslim who claims to not be religious, but spiritual. I only see minor, really insignificant differences between Christianity and Islam. The messages are nearly identical, and I acknowledge that Christianity was once in the Fundamentalist, intolerant state that the Islam world is now.
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I dont mean to be insulting Mustafaabut Allah is not our god. Our God of the Bible does not recognize Ishmael as the one who received the inheritance. And do not tell me that Islam is not a religion when you are required to pray 5 times a day. I have read the Qu'ran. It is not of God, inspired by him or anything else. It may be inspired by something or some god but not the God of the Bible. It breaks almost all the commandments, condems his choosen people, just to name a few things. To claim Islam is a religion of peace? Muslims may mean submit to god, But what god ? It is not the God of the bible. Lastly Islam demotes Christ to the lowly side kick of the muslim savior. I apologize if this offends you, but better to offend you than God by letting you compare the Qu'ran to the Bible. That is as offensive as it gets to me.
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Shingy;8359)
    Radiofreethinking is correct on all points. Arguing semantics(sic), I don't think anyone has to be 'religious' to believe in a God. All that is requires are the fundaments: faith and spirituality, coprrect me if I'm wrong. Spirituality is a quest seeking to answer the big questions. I personally know a Muslim who claims to not be religious, but spiritual. I only see minor, really insignificant differences between Christianity and Islam. The messages are nearly identical, and I acknowledge that Christianity was once in the Fundamentalist, intolerant state that the Islam world is now.
    If you read what I said you would see I was agreeing with the point you do not have to be any religion to be a christian.Below is the statement I made that radiofree is disagreeing with:{quote}All religions were created for Man by Man Some christian based religions were created for fellowship others based on interpretations of scripture. The thing to remember is Christianity is not a religion it is a way of life based on Gods Laws(commandments) and a believe in Christ. Although this is the starting point for most christian religions, then all seem to go their own directions some right some not so right. Then their are the religions based on men's writings and other books or other Men. I find and this site tries to Always stay in his word the Bible as the final authority and not religion
     
  17. Shingy

    Shingy New Member

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    (kriss;8368)
    If you read what I said you would see I was agreeing with the point you do not have to be any religion to be a christian.
    And if you read what I said you would see that I stated that one doesn't have to subscribe to rleigious doctrine in order to be a Muslim, Hindu, Christian, etc. I am not claiming an elitist position here by saying only Christian's can be irreligious. There is no need for your condescending tone either, even to atheists.
     
  18. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I wasn't being condescending I simply made a statement And sense I am a moderator on this site and you are 15 years old. I would advise you watch your attitude I don't appreciate your uncalled for accusations or your lack of respect.Futher more this is a Christan site we have allowed a few atheists on here like Radio because he is respectful but I don't have to agree with him.He understands that.
     
  19. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    There's nothing wrong with being so "narrow minded" about the Bible as the Word of God, Mustafaa. If you don't have that faith, and you are Christian, I have to say that you've done nothing more than make up a religion and god to go along with - anyone can do that, modern religions prove it. If that is one's chosen path, by all means go down it, but a personal truth is an important one. YHVH as my God, his only begotten Son Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit as a guide are my reality, not my religion. Not a darn thing anyone says will change that and I owe no "open mind" to anyone. If one desires to worship, allah or any other god(s) they have that right, but that doesn't change things for you, me, nor anyone else for that matter. We are able to document one thing; Islam did not appear until hundreds of years after Christ; over half a millenium. It clearly latched on to traditions that were much older and borrowed from here and there, be it the OT or NT canons as well as local Arabian pagan gods. If you choose to believe that is the way, then go for it. Whatever path you choose, go for it. I for one choose the path of God's Word because I can appreciate the depth of this book. The story of a world that is billions of years old. The story of an eternal God who loves the world so much and has given us every chance in the world. It's not a book of fairly tales of magic apples being eaten, it's not a call for the infidel to be slaughtered, and it doesn't suggest that I'll return to this Earth as an animal some day. It involves true science and if you listen to it, it explains many things far ahead of its time. There's never been such a concerted effort to deny it, yet it continues to persist, continues to save souls, and continues to steer paths. If this bothers you, maybe this Christian forum is not the place to be.
     
  20. MUSTAFAA

    MUSTAFAA New Member

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    Islam is the second largest religion in the world, and the fastest growing religion in the world… if it’s not from God then maybe people or ready for a change. All I can tell you is what I learned as a Muslim… that I was worshiping the same God as Abraham worshiped, as Mosses worshiped and all the prophets of the Old Testament. If Jesus is your God then that’s your chose not mine, but I don’t think that you will ever be able to prove that Islam is something other then from God. And I know you will not be able to prove that christens are the only ones allowed to have a personal relationship with God. This in my point about narrow minded thinking, not the fact that you chose to worship different from the way I do, but that you try to tell me that unless I worship like you then my religion can’t be from God. Christianity; Islam; and Judaism have all taken concepts from former religions. Judaism was not the first religion in the world, nor where they the first people. That’s not just my opinion and it’s not just some lies from Islam. It doesn’t offend me what you say about Islam, I take it like it is… just your opinion. I never stated that Islam was the religion of peace was I said was that the world “Islam” means peace. And I don’t remember saying that Islam was not a religion. The word "'islām" derives from the Arabicroot, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-L-M]sīn-lām-mīm[/url], which carries the basic meaning of safety and peace.[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#_note-9][13][/url] The verbal noun "islām" is formed from the verb aslama, meaning to accept, surrender, or submit; thus, Islam effectively means submission to and acceptance of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God]God[/url]. Followers of Islam are expected to submit to God by singling him out in all acts of worship, to yield obediently to him, and to disassociate oneself from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism]polytheism[/url].[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#_note-EoI-Islam][2][/url] Now if you say that Muslim of the world or not worshiping the same God as the God of the Old Testament and that this God belongs only to you then that’s something that I’ll leave to God to settle when the time comes. People have always killed in the name of God and that’s something that will never stop, the bible teaches us that… what should happen in the last days but what’s happing now. You say Islam is a false religion and kills people in the name of a false God but isn’t that what the bible said would happen in the end… false prophets and false religions? Quote:“There's never been such a concerted effort to deny it, yet it continues to persist, continues to save souls, and continues to steer paths.” End Quote Both religions move the people towards God; I will not block any man from that path!
    Surah 109
    Al-Kafirún (The Unbelievers)​
    In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Merciful.Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship.Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your way, and to me mine.
     
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