The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[Bible Highlighter]

Is this a contradiction, then?

"14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died." 2 Corinthians 5:14
​

Is Paul saying he can't help but to be compelled by Christ's love? If you know the scriptures, and I think you do, you know that it does not mean he has no free will in the matter. Just that there is a very powerful compelling force at work in him.

The warning to put on the whole armor of God is so that we can stand against the schemes of the devil. To the OSAS Christian or the Sin and Still Be Saved Proponent (Free Will Baptists, etcetera) they really don’t look at the Scriptures and it’s warnings like this. They are saved by a belief alone in Jesus and forever secure.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am not denying this verse. I do agree that the love of God can compel us. But it also does not mean we cannot fall away from the faith or be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

I don't believe that either. I'm simply demonstrating from scripture that compulsion does not equate to loss of free will. Righteousness is a compelling force in the life of a believer. One that drives him on to life changing sanctification.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, James is implying the same belief about justification by faith that Paul teaches us about in his letters. James is adding the understanding of justification in regard to one's works, not changing what Paul says about justification by faith. Justification is by, both, faith and works, just as James says. He is providing additional understanding to those who think their faith alone (faith with no works) is somehow a justifying faith that saves.

Justified means to be declared just or righteous. So if we are justified (declared just by God) by our faith in God’s grace and believing the savior for salvation, then we are also declare to be justified (declared righteous or just by God) by our works of faith. Paul mentions a thing called the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). The works that Paul is condemning in Romans 4:2 is not the works of faith, but it is Works ALONE Salvationism without God’s grace. We are saved by both faith + works of faith because that is what the Bible teaches plainly. John the Baptist says the axe is laid to the root of the tree and he says that we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance. Meaning, if we don’t bring forth fruits worthy of repentance, we will be cut down and thrown into the Lake of Fire (the second death).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The warning to put on the whole armor of God is so that we can stand against the schemes of the devil. To the OSAS Christian or the Sin and Still Be Saved Proponent (Free Will Baptists, etcetera) they really don’t look at the Scriptures and it’s warnings like this. They are saved by a belief alone in Jesus and forever secure.

I respect their belief that the true child of God can never be in unbelief again. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I respect it because it guards the necessary obedience that will accompany true faith (Hebrews 6:9). They are not teaching that one can have faith and it not somehow bring about the inevitable consequence of material obedience. Except the new Freegrace and Hypergrace OSAS sects. Those are a joke. I have zero respect for the nonsense they teach. They directly contradict James' and John' teaching about faith and works.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is no question that justification by faith and justification by works can not be separated from each other in a valid salvation experience. To not also be justified by works shows the person who claims to be justified by faith to be...well...a liar. But the issue here is justification by faith all by itself is what solicits the transforming power of the Holy Spirit in salvation. Works are the result of that justification. That's why you can't separate justification by faith from justification by works as the new OSAS teaching does.

Yes they must be separated. Eph. 2 shows one is saved solely by grace through faith in the finished work of the cross.

When the OP spoke of the penalty of sin- there are two penalties. there is the judicial penalty which is bein glost and cast into the lake of fire.

Then there is the consequential penalty of sin, which is the experiencing th ewages sin gives- separatiion of fellowship (not relationship) with god.

Sin has physical consequences in this life. Do heroin, you becokme an addict an ruin you rlife.

christian breaks the speed limit and gets pulled over, He gets a ticket for his sin.

But accordsing to you guys, the death of jesus did not cover all the eternal consequences of sin in a believers life. That is blasphemy and not Gods Word. To say that teh blood of Jesus is not enough is to preach another gospel.

all youy have doen is to present a salvation by grace + works which is a different gospel than gods.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I respect their belief that the true child of God can never be in unbelief again. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I respect it because it guards the necessary obedience that will accompany true faith (Hebrews 6:9). They are not teaching that one can have faith and it not somehow bring about the inevitable consequence of material obedience. Except the new Freegrace and Hypergrace OSAS sects. Those are a joke. I have zero respect for the nonsense they teach. They directly contradict James' and John' teaching about faith and works.

The thing is that I don’t believe the Christian group who says that a believer must not practice sin or they were never a true believer to begin with. Why? Well, in the beginning I believed there was one group that was more holy and strict, but after closely examining ALL of their words that they say at different points in time, they also promote that you can sin and still be saved on some smaller level. So I would call them Partial Hyper Grace or Partial Free Grace. For they think 1 John 1:8 is an excuse that we must always sin this side of Heaven. They think the prodigal son was saved while living it up with prostitutes. They say at other times things like salvation does not depend on how bad or good you are. So they double speak. They contradict themselves. They really don’t believe in keeping any consistent standard of morality because they believe they must sin on occasion. Some have even said they sin daily in thought and deed and yet they are still saved. Granted, they will say that those believers who murder, rape, steal as a way of life are not saved. So what of their sins that they do daily? That’s why I don’t believe them. They are trying to put on a cloak of righteousness to deceive. They really are not for holy living. The Bible warns about how there are those who have transformed themselves into the ministers of righteousness. But they really are not ministers of righteousness (But unrighteousness). So don’t believe them. They are lying to you. I had to find this out for myself by closely examining their own words. They double speak.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Keyword: Moses. God's people are no longer under that law given through Moses Grateful.

Sorry Bro. God gave the law to lead us to christ as Paul said. Becaise it proves everyone a sinner, and as paul scripture pretty such says, Shuts there mouth, Because all are guilty before God

The law is only done away if you have come to Christ. If your trying to work your way to heaven, you have not yet come to Christ, and your still under law.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes they must be separated. Eph. 2 shows one is saved solely by grace through faith in the finished work of the cross.

That’s not what Ephesians 2:8-9 says. Nor does it teach such a thing.
If Ephesians 2:8-9 said that we are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross, it would have said that.
Being saved by God’s grace through faith without works is not saying the exact words saved solely by grace through faith in the finish work of the cross. They are two different sentences with entirely different meanings.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with our Initial Salvation. Just read the chapter and it will tell you this fact.
For how many times do you receive a gift?
How many times have you been quickened or made alive? (See: Ephesians 2:1).

When the OP spoke of the penalty of sin- there are two penalties. there is the judicial penalty which is bein glost and cast into the lake of fire.

Only one penalty and the remedy is faith. Both being saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation is a part of our faith just as much as Sanctification by the Spirit in the secondary aspect of salvation is a part of the faith.

All of your Bible is a part of the faith.

Then there is the consequential penalty of sin, which is the experiencing th ewages sin gives- separatiion of fellowship (not relationship) with god.

Sin has physical consequences in this life. Do heroin, you becokme an addict an ruin you rlife.

christian breaks the speed limit and gets pulled over, He gets a ticket for his sin.

But accordsing to you guys, the death of jesus did not cover all the eternal consequences of sin in a believers life. That is blasphemy and not Gods Word. To say that teh blood of Jesus is not enough is to preach another gospel.

all youy have doen is to present a salvation by grace + works which is a different gospel than gods.

That’s the problem with your belief that you cannot see. 1 John 1:7 basically says that if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording found in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love your brother to have the blood of Jesus cleanse you from all sin (Which is dealing with our salvation). This is after we are saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation. But of course you gobble up what Protestants say blindly because a sin and still be saved type of belief is more comforting to you. But if you want to take a risk (or play games) with your own soul, then be my guest. Just know that your belief is not found in the Bible. Protestantism is not the Narrow way. It’s a big huge religion on planet Earth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sorry Bro. God gave the law to lead us to christ as Paul said. Becaise it proves everyone a sinner, and as paul scripture pretty such says, Shuts there mouth, Because all are guilty before God

The law is only done away if you have come to Christ. If your trying to work your way to heaven, you have not yet come to Christ, and your still under law.

The law of Moses was to point folks to Jesus Christ. But we are not under the 613 Laws of Moses anymore (Romans 6:14). We are under the Laws of Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21). The Law was to show that they did break God’s laws and come to God’s grace in their INITIAL Salvation. Paul is trying to make a point about how we are saved by God’s grace and not by the Jewish way of thinking that said you had to be circumcised in order to be initially saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, and Romans 4:9-12).

 

[Charlie24]

That’s not what Ephesians 2:8-9 says. Nor does it teach such a thing.
If Ephesians 2:8-9 said that we are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross, it would have said that.
Being saved by God’s grace through faith without works is not saying the exact words saved solely by grace through faith in the finish work of the cross. They are two different sentences with entirely different meanings.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with our Initial Salvation. Just read the chapter and it will tell you this fact.
For how many times do you receive a gift?
How many times have you been quickened or made alive? (See: Ephesians 2:1).



Only one penalty and the remedy is faith. Both being saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation is a part of our faith just as much as Sanctification by the Spirit in the secondary aspect of salvation is a part of the faith.

All of your Bible is a part of the faith.



That’s the problem with your belief that you cannot see. 1 John 1:7 basically says that if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording found in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love your brother to have the blood of Jesus cleanse you from all sin (Which is dealing with our salvation). This is after we are saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation. But of course you gobble up what Protestants say blindly because a sin and still be saved type of belief is more comforting to you. But if you want to take a risk (or play games) with your own soul, then be my guest. Just know that your belief is not found in the Bible. Protestantism is not the Narrow way. It’s a big huge religion on planet Earth.

After you read 1Cor. 3:11-15, ask yourself, if his works were burned up but yet he is still saved, what was it that saved him?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I respect their belief that the true child of God can never be in unbelief again. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I respect it because it guards the necessary obedience that will accompany true faith (Hebrews 6:9). They are not teaching that one can have faith and it not somehow bring about the inevitable consequence of material obedience. Except the new Freegrace and Hypergrace OSAS sects. Those are a joke. I have zero respect for the nonsense they teach. They directly contradict James' and John' teaching about faith and works.

Another reason why I cannot respect their belief is because if one believes this garbage, and they later in life find themselves not living holy, then they will doubt that they were genuinely saved to begin with (When they really did get saved genuinely). They then will start to doubt God’s Word entirely at this point and fall away from the faith or they will seek to try to have the born again experience AGAIN thinking they never truly had it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

After you read 1Cor. 3:11-15, ask yourself, if his works were burned up but yet he is still saved, what was it that saved him?

In 1 Corinthians 3: Paul says before his parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). For sin is not of the faith (Romans 14:23). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
(Hebrews 12:14-15).

 

[Charlie24]

In 1 Corinthians 3: Paul says before his parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). For sin is not of the faith (Romans 14:23). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
(Hebrews 12:14-15).

Can you answer the simple question? If his works did not meet the Lord's standard and were burned up, what saved him?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Can you answer the simple question? If his works did not meet the Lord's standard and were burned up, what saved him?

Your question is loaded like a baked potato. I gave you the TRUE explanation of what 1 Corinthians 3 is really saying. it’s not what you think it says. Read my explanation and examine it with Scripture. If not, then you are simply parroting the Protestant religion that is the big gorilla on the block and they are not of the FEW that Jesus talked about.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are 800 million to 1 billion Protestants in the world. Surely this is not what Jesus referred to when He said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it.

 

[Charlie24]

Your question is loaded like a baked potato. I gave you the TRUE explanation of what 1 Corinthians 3 is really saying. it’s not what you think it says. Read my explanation and examine it with Scripture. If not, then you are simply parroting the Protestant religion that is the big gorilla on the block and they are not of the FEW that Jesus talked about.

And I have given you the perfect scripture that illustrates that salvation is "by faith alone!"

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Protestantism justifies sin on some level.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And I have given you the perfect scripture that illustrates that salvation is "by faith alone!"

And James 2:24 says that we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
So you are misreading 1 Corinthians 3 to your own destruction.
For the only place in the Bible that says faith alone shows that it is not by faith alone.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Many today falsely teach a form of Justification (Being saved by God’s grace by believing in Jesus as their Savior or the finished work of the cross) in that they believe that this is total removal of the penalty of sin (in regards to even future sin) once for all (Whereby they never need to worry about sin jeopardizing their soul ever again).

Yes, that is false. Those who really have been justified should ask, "what future sins?"

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped thecorruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, that is false. Those who really have been justified should ask, "what future sins?"

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped thecorruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I agree.