The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[mailmandan]

I guess the simple answer here is, sanctification doesn't justify. Faith does. Sanctification is what happens when you believe and receive the gospel. In the moment you are justified you are set apart (sanctified) for God's holy purpose. From that point on you spend a lifetime becoming in practice what God has set you apart (sanctified) you to be. We call that the process of sanctification - becoming in practice the children of God we have become. There is no justifying power in that sanctification. It happens because we have been justified by faith...

Amen! Those who have been justified by faith have been sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Yet we also have progressive or ongoing sanctification (which is a process) in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. This is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, practical, progressive holiness, in regards to our ongoing sanctification. Our ongoing/progressive sanctification has no bearing on our justification. That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. (Romans 5:1)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! Those who have been justified by faith have been sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Yet we also have progressive or ongoing sanctification (which is a process) in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. This is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, practical, progressive holiness, in regards to our ongoing sanctification. Our ongoing/progressive sanctification has no bearing on our justification. That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. (Romans 5:1)

its sad people mess up positional sanctifiaction, or being IN CHRIST, with conditional sanctification, or christian growth, and declaring our positional sanctification is dependent on conditional

Thats an impossible task. Christ was perfect. that is required if we are to be positionally sanctified by our works.

No one meets that standard

 

[Robert Gwin]

They believe they have done things to warrant entry into the kingdom.


Yes, generally speaking.

In our natural selves each of us has our own ideas about what pleases God and will solicit his seal of approval. And that's where faith comes in. Faith establishes for us with certainty what we are to believe and trust in. Without it we're left to our own imaginations.

Agreed Ferris

 

[Robert Gwin]

still do not get it

Moses said cursed is everyone who does not obey every word.

Have you met that standard, are you righteous according to that standard. or are you cursed?

there is no inbetween

Keyword: Moses. God's people are no longer under that law given through Moses Grateful.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I guess the simple answer here is, sanctification doesn't justify.

Works is a part of our sanctification, and James says,

“You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24) (BLB).
The same word justified is used for both faith and works.

So if you suggest that we are not justified by works, then you must suggest that faith also does not justify us before God because the same word “justified” is used for both faith and works in James 2:24. Most Christians when I show them this fact appear to not be able to see it, and they just skip past this as if I was talking to the air.

In addition, we also see in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 that God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth. So Sanctification of the Spirit is a part of our salvation (Which is a verse that either is twisted or ignored by Protestants). Note: Please keep in mind I am non-denominational and I believe that “the Bible alone + the Anointing to Understand It” is my guide for all matters of faith and living by faith.

Not enough? 1 John 1:7.

Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.
If we walk in the light (love our brother), the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (See: 1 John 1:7).

Still not enough?

Romans 8:13.

If we walk after the flesh (sin), you will die, but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally).

Putting away sin by the Spirit is a part of our Sanctification.
Loving your brother is a part of our Sanctification.
I just demonstrated that these verses also show a removal of the penalty of sin (i.e. in that they cleanse us from sin, justify us, or they bring salvation or eternal life).

Faith does. Sanctification is what happens when you believe and receive the gospel.

First, the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It is believing that Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and risen the third day. This is done in our Initial Salvation and it something we stand upon and believe in the rest of our lives as Christians.

Now, I do agree with you that Sanctification happens after we receive the gospel. In fact, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says that Sanctification of the Spirit is a call of the gospel. This call of the gospel (not that it is the gospel) is that…. God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (Note: There are other pieces of Scripture that make it appear like there are other gospels or there is more information attached to the gospel (besides 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), but I don’t believe that is the case; I believe the gospel is only 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (Check out my write up on this here to learn more if you are interested).

Second, I believe everything in our Bible is a part of the faith. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Even God’s instructions, and or Sanctification is by faith because we have to believe those words in Scripture by faith. So Sanctification is a part of the faith. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23).

An eye opening thing for me was when I realized that Protestants say many things that are not in the Bible. This would include their view of Justification, and Sanctification. People just eat up what Protestants say blindly without really checking the Scriptures for themselves to see if what they say is true or not.

In the moment you are justified you are set apart (sanctified) for God's holy purpose.

There are three major different forms of sanctification.

#1. Sanctified by Christ’s sacrifice in the Provisional Atonement in that our past sins are forever forgiven and we don’t have to keep revisiting the same sins year after year (Hebrews 10:10).
#2. Sanctified or cleansed by the Spirit after being saved by God’s grace (Titus 3:5).
#3. Sanctification of the Spirit to progressively live a holy life and overcome those types of sins that lead to spiritual death (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14) (Romans 8:13).​

So in the Provisional Atonement, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. The problem of our past life of sin has been taken care of. We don’t have to keep revisiting the same sins yearly. But that does not mean everyone is saved. Jesus made a way of escape for us or paid for the debts of all men’s sins, and now he is handing us the check. But we have to cash that check by faith in order for it to benefit us. We have to be responsible with the debt he paid for us. For if we go back to sinning again, we are in unbelief. For sin is not a part of the faith.

There is a sanctification (a cleansing of the heart and mind by the Spirit) when we are first saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation. This is the born again event or regeneration of the believer. They are changed spiritually.

Then there is another kind of Sanctification of the Spirit that happens after a person is first saved by God’s grace through faith. This Sanctification is the secondary aspect of a believer’s salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Romans 8:13). This Sanctification is progressive and it is to live more progressively holy to overcome those sins in this life to enter the Kingdom of God. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Myself included) (See: Hebrews 12:14).

Now, God saved us for a holy calling (2 Timothy 1:9).
But the sanctification of being set a part as you say is not exactly clear.
It sounds like another Protestant statement that needs to be clearly established in Scripture.
Most just blindly follow the crowd and they take what Protestants say by faith instead of just reading and believing the Bible instead. I say this because 2 Timothy 2 says,

“But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.” (2 Timothy 2:20-21).

So based on 2 Timothy 2:20-21, we are either going to be a vessel of honor or dishonor. If a man purge himself from these (i.e. things like: Strive not about words to no profit, shun profane babblings, and depart from iniquity, etcetera), he will be a vessel unto honor SANCTIFIED and fit for the master’s use).

I don’t hear Protestants mention this form of being sanctified. They have their own pet words and sayings not exactly found in the Bible. In other words, if I am going to say something, I would rather it be from the Bible and not from men. Sure, they may even be correct or right on some level at times, but I would rather speak Bible, and not Protestantism. For the Protestant religion will not save me. Only my believing the Bible, and abiding in Christ will save me.

From that point on you spend a lifetime becoming in practice what God has set you apart (sanctified) you to be. We call that the process of sanctification - becoming in practice the children of God we have become.

I believe we are set apart or sanctified if we purge ourselves from the things mentioned in 2 Timothy 2. I believe the Bible and not Protestant sayings. They say lots of things that are not exactly in the Bible. They stupid things like how we are saved solely on believing in the finished work of the cross and yet that saying is not even in the Bible, and that teaching is not even in the Bible. They made it up.

There is no justifying power in that sanctification.

Sure there is. Any time you read in your New Testament about how sin can destroy our souls, and in living righteously leads to eternal life…. That proof that Sanctification justifies us before God. For even the demons believe and tremble. Without Sanctification, then one is no more different than a devil or sinning unbeliever.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It happens because we have been justified by faith.

No. You are not forced against your will to be a certain way.

While there is a change in the new birth, it does not override our free will, and or relinquish our responsibility in continuing in God’s plan of salvation.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

These thing would not exist in Scripture if things are as Protestants say.

Note: For our other readers here, they must know I am not Catholic, Orthodox, etcetera. I am simply a Non-denominational Christian who believes “the Bible Alone + the Anointing to Understand It.”

Unbelief is what will bring the process of sanctification to an end. The unbelief is what causes us to no longer be set apart (sanctified) for God's holy purpose, assuming that's it's possible for a believer to return to unbelief. The end of the process of sanctification (a return to willful disobedience) is the sign that a person is unbelief. The unbelief being what causes a person's sins to be counted against them, not the ending of the process of sanctification.

Not doing what God says is unbelief in His Word. Sin is always tied to unbelief. For whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). The whole of your New Testament is the faith. All the words in the New Testament take faith on our part to believe in.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

its sad people mess up positional sanctifiaction, or being IN CHRIST, with conditional sanctification, or christian growth, and declaring our positional sanctification is dependent on conditional

Thats an impossible task. Christ was perfect. that is required if we are to be positionally sanctified by our works.

No one meets that standard

And this kind of thinking is why few will only be saved. Noah and his family (8 people) were onboard the Ark.
Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life, and FEW be there that find it.
Protestantism is not of the FEW because it is one of the largest denominations on the planet (or it’s one of the big gorillas on the block).
Stop listening to Protestant sayings for a while and just get in your Bible. Try it for a year. Relearn everything by just reading the Bible, and ignore Protestant sayings for 1 year. Forget everything you know. Just read the Bible and believe what it says, and you will be shocked that the sayings by Protestants does not line up with the Bible. Well, that is if you want to truly follow the Bible in truth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24) (BLB).
The same word justified is used for both faith and works.

So if you suggest that we are not justified by works, then you must suggest that faith also does not justify us before God because the same word “justified” is used for both faith and works in James 2:24. Most Christians when I show them this fact appear to not be able to see it, and they just skip past this as if I was talking to the air.

If James is using the same definition of 'justified' that Paul is using then James is contradicting Paul. But as it is, 'justified' has more than one meaning and usage. It can mean to be made righteous, and it can mean to be shown to be righteous. Paul is using it in regard to being made righteous (apart from works). While James is using it in regard to being shown to be righteous your works. So it is definitely true that a man is justified by, both, faith and works without those instances of 'justification' being in contradiction to each other. @mailmandan explained these different definitions of 'justified' well in a recent post. A man's faith secures the righteousness that is from God all by itself apart from works, while his works show him to possess that righteousness.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No. You are not forced against your will to be a certain way.

I agree. What is present in the believer is the compelling force of righteousness motivating them towards sanctification.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If James is using the same definition of 'justified' that Paul is using then James is contradicting Paul.

First, why are you not able to see that there is only ONE WORD called justified in James 2:24? Meaning, James did not mention the word justified twice so as to refer to one version of justified as in reference to works, and another word justified for faith in James 2:24.

Why are you unable to see that both the word “works” and “faith” are used in relation to ONE word “justified” in James 2:24?
Are you saying that there is a kind of faith that we are justified by that does not save?
This is what you have to conclude if you are to be consistent in your reading of the word “justified” when it refers to both faith and works in James 2:24. Like many others, you ignore this simple and basic truth.

Second, in James 2:24: James is not contradicting Paul in Romans 4:2. Paul is implying that a believer is not justified by works because Paul is referring to “Works ALONE Salvationism” (without God’s grace) because Paul is fighting against those who thought they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12). In Romans 4:2: Paul is not referring to the Sanctification Process after we are saved by God’s grace, but Works ALONE Salvationism.

But as it is, 'justified' has more than one meaning and usage. It can mean to be made righteous, and it can mean to be shown to be righteous. Paul is using it in regard to being made righteous (apart from works). While James is using it in regard to being shown to be righteous your works. So it is definitely true that a man is justified by, both, faith and works without those instances of 'justification' being in contradiction to each other.

No. Works of faith (after we are saved by God’s grace) makes our faith perfect (See: James 2:22). We are to show a person our faith by our works of faith (James 2:18). Abraham was said to be justified by works in James 2. Paul is implying that Abraham was not justified by works ALONE without God’s grace. Paul was teaching how we first need to be saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation. But there were believers who were being deceived into thinking they had to first be circumcised to be initially saved (Acts of the Apostles 15:1) (Galatians 5:2) (Romans 3:1) (Romans 4:9-12). That’s the context most Christians ignore so as to justify a sin and still be saved type doctrine.

@mailmandan explained these different definitions of 'justified' well in a recent post. A man's faith secures the righteousness that is from God all by itself apart from works, while his works show him to possess that righteousness.

No, Mailmandan made an attempt to explain how these were different words, but again (just like you), he is speaking against the faith (or the Word of God) by trying to imply that the word “justified” is not the same word “justified” in relation to faith in James 2:24. But both faith and works is mentioned in James 2:24 in relation to one word “justified.” So you both have to bury your head in the sand to the truth here.

For example: You both have avatars and names that promote or glorify sinful entertainment as being okay. I know. I used to do the same thing until I repented of such a thing. For I counted those things as dung for my Lord Jesus Christ.

Mailmandan’s avatar promotes Seinfeld. For example: In the Seinfeld episode called, “The Shoes” (Season 4, episode 16), George is caught staring at his boss’ teenage daughter’s cleavage. His defense is that it was in his “field of vision.” The entire gang orchestrates a scenario for Elaine to show cleavage in front of his boss in order to demonstrate that when cleavage is visible, straight men are rendered powerless and cannot help but stare, justifying George’s ogling of a 15-year-old.

Your Avatar and username promotes a sinful movie. The whole film is based upon the main character lying to his parents and to the school so as to have a day of fun. Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. So the character lied to have fun. In fact, fun and pleasure have become idols in our society. Even Ferris’ sister had kissed intensely with a druggie (promoting the idea that our daughters should date drug addicts - which is sinful). So it’s no surprise that these kinds of entertainment is uplifted that promotes sinful things.

These sinful idols is what I believe clouds our judgment on understanding sin and salvation in the Bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree. What is present in the believer is the compelling force of righteousness motivating them towards sanctification.

This sounds like a contradiction. Then again, if you were to carefully examine the Protestant religion more, you would see that they make contradictory statements all the time.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

First, why are you not able to see that there is only ONE WORD called justified in James 2:24? Meaning, James did not mention the word justified twice so as to refer to one version of justified as in reference to works, and another word justified for faith in James 2:24.

Correct, he didn't. But we know which definition of 'justified' he is addressing by this:

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18
​

He uses the example of Abraham, justified by his faith apart from works in Genesis 15:6 then being justified by his works in Genesis 22:12, at which time the angel of the Lord exclaims, “now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your only son from me.” when he saw Abraham's obedience. James is clearly addressing the issue of justification in regard to being shown to be righteous, not being made righteous as Paul uses the term.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This sounds like a contradiction. Then again, if you were to carefully examine the Protestant religion more, you would see that they make contradictory statements all the time.

Well, you gotta understand I firmly resist the Protestant misunderstanding of what they erroneously call 'faith alone' when referring to Paul's 'righteousness (by faith) apart from works'. I get caught in the middle between the camp that says faith and works make you righteous and the camp that says faith doesn't have to have works attached to save you at the return of Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If James is using the same definition of 'justified' that Paul is using then James is contradicting Paul. But as it is, 'justified' has more than one meaning and usage. It can mean to be made righteous, and it can mean to be shown to be righteous. Paul is using it in regard to being made righteous (apart from works). While James is using it in regard to being shown to be righteous your works. So it is definitely true that a man is justified by, both, faith and works without those instances of 'justification' being in contradiction to each other. @mailmandan explained these different definitions of 'justified' well in a recent post. A man's faith secures the righteousness that is from God all by itself apart from works, while his works show him to possess that righteousness.

Watch this video. There are lots of Scripture verses that this Pastor puts forth to explain things here. While I do not agree with everything this Pastor says, I do agree with him (for the most part) in this video.

I would encourage your to check it out.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Correct, he didn't. But we know which definition of 'justified' he is addressing by this:

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18
​

He uses the example of Abraham, justified by his faith apart from works in Genesis 15:6 then being justified by his works in Genesis 22:12, at which time the angel of the Lord exclaims, “now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your only son from me.” when he saw Abraham's obedience. James is clearly addressing the issue of justification in regard to being shown to be righteous, not being made righteous as Paul uses the term.

Then you believe that the word faith mentioned in James 2:24 is saying the same thing in relation to being justified?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This sounds like a contradiction.

Is this a contradiction, then?

"14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died." 2 Corinthians 5:14
​

Is Paul saying he can't help but to be compelled by Christ's love? If you know the scriptures, and I think you do, you know that it does not mean he has no free will in the matter. Just that there is a very powerful compelling force at work in him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, you gotta understand I firmly resist the Protestant misunderstanding of what they erroneously call 'faith alone' when referring to Paul's 'righteousness (by faith) apart from works'. I get caught in the middle between the camp that says faith and works make you righteous and the camp that says faith doesn't have to have works attached to save you at the return of Christ.

Revelation 3 should erase any doubt. One church was lukewarm and they were spewed out of Christ’s mouth. Another church was told to repent because He did not find their works perfect before God. So our works have to be perfect (worthy) before God after we are saved by God’s grace through faith without works (In our Initial Salvation).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Is this a contradiction, then?

"14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died." 2 Corinthians 5:14
​

Is Paul saying he can't help but to be compelled by Christ's love? If you know the scriptures, and I think you do, you know that it does not mean he has no free will in the matter. Just that there is a very powerful compelling force at work in him.

I am not denying this verse. I do agree that the love of God can compel us. But it also does not mean we cannot fall away from the faith or be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

 

[Charlie24]

Well, you gotta understand I firmly resist the Protestant misunderstanding of what they erroneously call 'faith alone' when referring to Paul's 'righteousness (by faith) apart from works'. I get caught in the middle between the camp that says faith and works make you righteous and the camp that says faith doesn't have to have works attached to save you at the return of Christ.

Didn't Paul say that a man's works may not pass the test of God's fire and be burned up, but he will still be saved?

In that case there will be no rewards, but the faith of that person has saved them.

Would you call that "faith alone" that saved him?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then you believe that the word faith mentioned in James 2:24 is saying the same thing in relation to being justified?

Yes, James is implying the same belief about justification by faith that Paul teaches us about in his letters. James is adding the understanding of justification in regard to one's works, not changing what Paul says about justification by faith. Justification is by, both, faith and works, just as James says. He is providing additional understanding to those who think their faith alone (faith with no works) is somehow a justifying faith that saves.