The Positional Platform

[Netchaplain]

The majority of believers today are in legal bondage because they do not see the essential difference between our position and that of Israel under the Law. Israel depended upon their own obedience to get their blessings in the land. Christians receive their blessings because of the Lord Jesus’ obedience in their stead. He paid in full “the wages of sin”—which was death (Rom 6:23): and we have the “free gift of God”—eternal life. This gives us rest of heart so that we have leisure to love the Father for His own sake and learn to delight in His will.

The primary reason Christians today are living such unhappy, such empty, such weak and fruitless lives, is not that they are “not consecrated,” “not surrendered, “not self-denying,” ”not obedient.” The trouble, the one great trouble, is, Christians do not believe that they are “free from the Law, in Christ Jesus” (which Christians Gentiles were never under, as Christian Jews were before believing); and that they already have the glorious blessings they are seeking after and need only to claim them to enjoy them—that “their part” is simply to enter in and by the Spirit enjoy the infinite spoils of the Lord Jesus’ victory.

We died with the Lord Jesus, and were made alive “together with Him.” And with Him we were raised up and seated in heavenly places in Him; where, as a real fact, every child of God now is, in His sight and reckoning, whether by his own reckoning and consequent experience or not! This position in the Lord Jesus seated at the Father‘s right hand is the only platform from which the believer can consider aright the truths of the Word of God!

If positional truth, rather than the duties of attainment, were taught first to the saints, much more satisfactory results would follow the ministry of Christian workers. We should note most carefully that Israel was brought into Canaan (Josh 14:1), uncircumcised (in their heart, not in their flesh) and unworthy as they were, before they were asked (Jer 4:4) to take the circumcised, separated position as the people of God.

So we, as Christians, have been already brought by Christ Jesus our Head, in His death, resurrection and ascension, into the “heavenly places,” and to us have been given “all things that pertain unto life and godliness” (2 Pet 1:3). And it is always on the ground of where we already are, and what we already are, and what we already have, that the Holy Spirit speaks to us concerning our wholehearted recognition and acceptance of the blessed privileges and responsibilities of “the calling wherewith we are called.”

Paul does not ask a thing of the saints in Ephesians 1-3 but just to listen while he proclaims that wondrous series of great and eternal facts concerning them; and not until he has completed this catalogue of positional realities about them does he ask them to do anything at all! And when he does open his plea for their high walk as saints, everything is based on the revelation before given of the facts of their high character and destiny as saints: “I therefore . . . beseech you to walk worthily of the calling wherewith you were called” (Eph 4:1).

Let us cease laying down to the saints long lists of “conditions” of entering into the blessed life in the Lord Jesus; and instead, as the primal preparation for leading them into the reality of this life, show them what their position, possessions, and privileges in the Lord Jesus Christ already are. Thus shall we truly work in dependence upon the Holy Spirit; and thus shall we have much more abiding fruit of our labors among the people of God.

Wm R Newell

 

[Episkopos]

The majority of believers today are in legal bondage because they do not see the essential difference between our position and that of Israel under the Law. Israel depended upon their own obedience to get their blessings in the land. Christians receive their blessings because of the Lord Jesus’ obedience in their stead. He paid in full “the wages of sin”—which was death (Rom 6:23): and we have the “free gift of God”—eternal life. This gives us rest of heart so that we have leisure to love the Father for His own sake and learn to delight in His will.

The primary reason Christians today are living such unhappy, such empty, such weak and fruitless lives, is not that they are “not consecrated,” “not surrendered, “not self-denying,” ”not obedient.” The trouble, the one great trouble, is, Christians do not believe that they are “free from the Law, in Christ Jesus” (which Christians Gentiles were never under, as Christian Jews were before believing); and that they already have the glorious blessings they are seeking after and need only to claim them to enjoy them—that “their part” is simply to enter in and by the Spirit enjoy the infinite spoils of the Lord Jesus’ victory.

We died with the Lord Jesus, and were made alive “together with Him.” And with Him we were raised up and seated in heavenly places in Him; where, as a real fact, every child of God now is, in His sight and reckoning, whether by his own reckoning and consequent experience or not! This position in the Lord Jesus seated at the Father‘s right hand is the only platform from which the believer can consider aright the truths of the Word of God!

If positional truth, rather than the duties of attainment, were taught first to the saints, much more satisfactory results would follow the ministry of Christian workers. We should note most carefully that Israel was brought into Canaan (Josh 14:1), uncircumcised (in their heart, not in their flesh) and unworthy as they were, before they were asked (Jer 4:4) to take the circumcised, separated position as the people of God.

So we, as Christians, have been already brought by Christ Jesus our Head, in His death, resurrection and ascension, into the “heavenly places,” and to us have been given “all things that pertain unto life and godliness” (2 Pet 1:3). And it is always on the ground of where we already are, and what we already are, and what we already have, that the Holy Spirit speaks to us concerning our wholehearted recognition and acceptance of the blessed privileges and responsibilities of “the calling wherewith we are called.”

Paul does not ask a thing of the saints in Ephesians 1-3 but just to listen while he proclaims that wondrous series of great and eternal facts concerning them; and not until he has completed this catalogue of positional realities about them does he ask them to do anything at all! And when he does open his plea for their high walk as saints, everything is based on the revelation before given of the facts of their high character and destiny as saints: “I therefore . . . beseech you to walk worthily of the calling wherewith you were called” (Eph 4:1).

Let us cease laying down to the saints long lists of “conditions” of entering into the blessed life in the Lord Jesus; and instead, as the primal preparation for leading them into the reality of this life, show them what their position, possessions, and privileges in the Lord Jesus Christ already are. Thus shall we truly work in dependence upon the Holy Spirit; and thus shall we have much more abiding fruit of our labors among the people of God.

Wm R Newell

Completely wrong!!!! The very opposite is true.

The primary reason Christians today are living such unhappy, such empty, such weak and fruitless lives, is BECAUSE they are “not consecrated,” “not surrendered, “not self-denying,” ”not obedient.

The OP comes from the devil who would stop any future revival based on the love of the truth by placating spoiled children to remain carnal...and yet FEEL saved.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The trouble, the one great trouble, is, Christians do not believe that they are “free from the Law, in Christ Jesus” (which Christians Gentiles were never under, as Christian Jews were before believing);

It's good to read someone making this distinction. All of scripture (except possibly the book of Revelation) was written from this perspective.

 

[Netchaplain]

Completely wrong!!!! The very opposite is true.

The primary reason Christians today are living such unhappy, such empty, such weak and fruitless lives, is BECAUSE they are “not consecrated,” “not surrendered, “not self-denying,” ”not obedient.

The OP comes from the devil who would stop any future revival based on the love of the truth by placating spoiled children to remain carnal...and yet FEEL saved.

There are many Christians who live within the above mentioned positions and yet still lack understanding that "the Law" (Decalogue--Ten Commandments) is not and has never been part of what God expected of the Gentile and has never expected the Jew to be able to keep; which Law is now nonexistent because it was "taken away" (Heb 10:9).

"The doers of the law shall be justified" in Romans 2:13 is in reference to the fact that only those in Christ (the only One who kept the Law) are justified in Christ, for to keep the Law meant to obey it perfectly without ever disobeying it (Jam 2:10), which man cannot, nor is expected to be able to do.

Even the perfect keeping of the Law by Christ was not for His people, but for His qualification for sacrificial atonement. It was His atonement and not His obedient life that imputed justification from all sin (esp. our old man) to the believer.

 

[Episkopos]

There are many Christians who live within the above mentioned positions and yet still lack understanding that "the Law" (Decalogue--Ten Commandments) is not and has never been part of what God expected of the Gentile and has never expected the Jew to be able to keep; which Law is now nonexistent because it was "taken away" (Heb 10:9).

"The doers of the law shall be justified" in Romans 2:13 is in reference to the fact that only those in Christ (the only One who kept the Law) are justified in Christ, for to keep the Law meant to obey it perfectly without ever disobeying it (Jam 2:10), which man cannot, nor is expected to be able to do.

Even the perfect keeping of the Law by Christ was not for His people, but for His qualification for sacrificial atonement. It was His atonement and not His obedient life that imputed justification from all sin (esp. our old man) to the believer.

Here you are confusing the works of the law...circumcision, sabbath keeping, kosher eating...with acts of righteousness like loving our enemies etc...


This error has caused your understanding to have no reality.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yeah the deadness is due to the fact that people don't see their freedom in Christ, and how incredibly magnificent GOD's grace is. We, sinful beings worthy of death, stand in humility and awe as GOD passes over the judgment due us. That is grace.

People have the wrong focus. They are told to die to self and other such things that just puts the focus on them, which just leads to more bondage. The cross is the power that liberates; focus on it.

 

[Episkopos]

From a "positional platform" we dive into a pool without water. The higher the dive the more we get mangled.

 

[Netchaplain]

Here you are confusing the works of the law...circumcision, sabbath keeping, kosher eating...with acts of righteousness like loving our enemies etc...


This error has caused your understanding to have no reality.

I understand what you mean but I'm trying to share that obedience isn't something to obtain favor but an evidence of a preexisting favor obtained--through Christ, not self.

Yeah the deadness is due to the fact that people don't see their freedom in Christ, and how incredibly magnificent GOD's grace is. We, sinful beings worthy of death, stand in humility and awe as GOD passes over the judgment due us. That is grace.

People have the wrong focus. They are told to die to self and other such things that just puts the focus on them, which just leads to more bondage. The cross is the power that liberates; focus on it.

Pretty strong and accurate CRFTD. Hampered voltage often results due to reverse-polarity. To put obedience before the Cross is out of order. It is because of the "old man" on His Cross that the believer can be obedient--in his "new man"--by the Spirit!

 

[jiggyfly]

Paul gives the crux of the "good news" here in his letter to those at Colosse.

19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20 and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
21 This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22 Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.23 But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it.
Col 1:19-23 (NLT)

Such a simple truth, it only begins to become confusing when man tries to add to it by taking the requisites in the old covenant and mixing them into the new covenant. Man's religious folly is evident in the teaching of trying to become more acceptable to Father by works of obedience to the "law" from the old covenant. This obedience is not obedience at all but rather disobedience and doubt to the truth of Father's plan of Christ's work of redemption and reconciliation.

The struggle that many have is God's plan leaves nothing for the flesh to achieve and glory in, for the flesh cannot receive not understand the things of God.

 

[Netchaplain]

Paul gives the crux of the "good news" here in his letter to those at Colosse.

19[/size] For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20[/size] and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
21[/size] This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22[/size] Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.23[/size] But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it.
Col 1:19-23 (NLT)

Such a simple truth, it only begins to become confusing when man tries to add to it by taking the requisites in the old covenant and mixing them into the new covenant. Man's religious folly is evident in the teaching of trying to become more acceptable to Father by works of obedience to the "law" from the old covenant. This obedience is not obedience at all but rather disobedience and doubt to the truth of Father's plan of Christ's work of redemption and reconciliation.

The struggle that many have is God's plan leaves nothing for the flesh to achieve and glory in, for the flesh cannot receive not understand the things of God.

Amen JF. Thanks!

 

[Polt]

The majority of believers today are in legal bondage because they do not see the essential difference between our position and that of Israel under the Law.

Yo, NetChaplain, Jesus called. He said to tell you, "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. I never knew you; depart from me, you worker of lawlessness."

I'm sorry to hear you calling doing God's will bondage. I'm sorry that in the immoral landscape of today, you think Christians need to be taught to be lawless.

You claim Jesus said he took away the law. No, Jesus didn't say that. Jesus took away the sacrifices by being a sacrifice himself. Jesus fulfilled the law. He didn't do away with the law. Stop hating Jesus.

 

[Netchaplain]

Yo, NetChaplain, Jesus called. He said to tell you, "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. I never knew you; depart from me, you worker of lawlessness."

I'm sorry to hear you calling doing God's will bondage. I'm sorry that in the immoral landscape of today, you think Christians need to be taught to be lawless.

You claim Jesus said he took away the law. No, Jesus didn't say that. Jesus took away the sacrifices by being a sacrifice himself. Jesus fulfilled the law. He didn't do away with the law. Stop hating Jesus.

Not very encouraging to see that you're mistaken about my motives, which is always the Lord's best for those who are His. I wouldn't mind replying to your post but there would need to be a discontinuation of aggressiveness first, or the correspondence wouldn't be right.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You claim Jesus said he took away the law. No, Jesus didn't say that. Jesus took away the sacrifices by being a sacrifice himself. Jesus fulfilled the law. He didn't do away with the law. Stop hating Jesus.

New covenant, new priesthood, new law. Out with old, in with the new.

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law (of Moses), what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12

 

[Polt]

Not very encouraging to see that you're mistaken about my motives, which is always the Lord's best for those who are His. I wouldn't mind replying to your post but there would need to be a discontinuation of aggressiveness first, or the correspondence wouldn't be right.

Christians are "free from the law [of God]." - NetChaplain

"Depart from me you workers of lawlessness." - Jesus

When you get clotheslined by a Bible verse, you can either admit your error or bluff that you could reply.

 

[Netchaplain]

Christians are "free from the law [of God]." - NetChaplain

"Depart from me you workers of lawlessness." - Jesus

When you get clotheslined by a Bible verse, you can either admit your error or bluff that you could reply.

The believer, regardless of his beliefs, is under the law of the Spirit of life and no other law (Decalogue). If you mean law to be God's will and not the TC's, then we're in agreement.

 

[daq]

NetChaplain do you believe that the Gospel of Matthew is written to you?

 

[Polt]

New covenant, new priesthood, new law. Out with old, in with the new.

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law (of Moses), what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12

A change in the law is not the elimination of the law. The book of Hebrews then goes on to explain those changes, such as a change from flawed human priests to a perfect priest in Jesus. The law is now written into our hearts and is stricter than before. The Law of Moses only required compliance in style, such as do not murder. But, now we are told to comply even in our hearts. To hate our brother is murder. To lust after a woman is adultery.

NetChaplain claims we are free to murder and fornicate. According to him, it's just too much of a burden to ask anyone not to murder and fornicate. That's just legal bondage, he complains.

We are free from the law of sin and death. That means we are no longer slaves to sin doomed to death, not that we are free to sin. If we willingly sin, we are not free of the law of sin and death, and we do not belong to Christ.

We live in a society of increasing immorality, and those who preach we are free from the law (not just from the law of sin and death) are like prosperity preachers, telling corrupt people what they want to hear, that they can live as reprobates and still be saved.

Paul uses the phrase "all things are lawful". Good commentaries (e.g. Matthew Henry) and good Bible translations (see the quote marks the translators use) agree that Paul isn't teaching that all things are lawful. Paul is quoting this phrase (probably used by some Corinthian Christians to defend sexual immorality) to refute it. "'All things are lawful'... Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!"

 

[Netchaplain]

NetChaplain do you believe that the Gospel of Matthew is written to you?

"All scripture is given . . . That the man of God may be perfect" (mature, complete--2 Tim 3:16, 17).

Though the above truism is for all Christians, there are passages that are independently directed to unbelieving Jews and those to believing Jews and Gentiles. This is where "dividing the Word" is utilized concerning varying dispensations of God's will.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

A change in the law is not the elimination of the law. The book of Hebrews then goes on to explain those changes, such as a change from flawed human priests to a perfect priest in Jesus. The law is now written into our hearts and is stricter than before. The Law of Moses only required compliance in style, such as do not murder. But, now we are told to comply even in our hearts. To hate our brother is murder. To lust after a woman is adultery.

Nevertheless, the law has changed. We are not under the law of Moses, and really never have been. The new law for the new covenant is the law of faith. Keep that law and you will abide in the righteousness of the law of Moses. Man was made to be righteous, not keep law. Law is for the lawless and sinners.

 

[daq]

"All scripture is given . . . That the man of God may be perfect" (mature, complete--2 Tim 3:16, 17).

Though the above truism is for all Christians, there are passages that are independently directed to unbelieving Jews and those to believing Jews and Gentiles. This is where "dividing the Word" is utilized concerning varying dispensations of God's will.

So the answer is a rhetorical "No, the leopard cannot change his spots" and there is therefore no reason to even ask whether you believe 1&2Peter, James, or Hebrews is written to you because you basically uphold the canon of Marcion. The only question is do you also cut out the Tanak quotes from the Pauline Epistles as Marcion did? (no need to answer that either as it is likewise rhetorical). The reasons given do not really matter, that is, whether you like to consider it hyper dispensationalism or gnostic dualism, (Marcionism).