The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >

[ChristisGod]

Follow-up to the topic: The potential conceit of doctrinal individuality

Got it all figured out?

- You read the Bible cover-to-cover. Good for you. Kudos.
- You read up on doctrine and apologetics. Good.
- You arrived at a position on nearly any biblical topic, or doctrine. Check.
- Now you are ready to kick some butt. Say what?

What's wrong with this picture?
Is this why we read the Bible and study?
Do we measure maturity by personal KNOWLEDGE, or by personal TRANSFORMATION ?

Amen doctrine and practice must go hand in hand together. As the saying goes practice what you preach rings true. Or do as I say not as I do. Its hypocrisy to say we believe such and such yet not put it into practice. Scripture has plenty of warnings about this from cover to cover. Preach it my friend !!!

 

[St. SteVen]

No. That's the problem with a humanistic gospel...it is always accusing God.

Again, I'm not accusing God of things.
I'm accusing the church of presenting a wrong concept of God as a cosmic tyrant.
Your words prove my point. You just refuse to own up to them.

We know these things in our own lives.
The person that is unkind to the wait staff at a restaurant is an unkind person.
It matters not that they have status. There is no excuse to be unkind to anyone.

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[St. SteVen]

Amen doctrine and practice must go hand in hand together. As the saying goes practice what you preach rings true. Or do as I say not as I do. Its hypocrisy to say we believe such and such yet not put it into practice. Scripture has plenty of warnings about this from cover to cover. Preach it my friend !!!

Thanks for joining us. Good to see you, as always.

With maturity comes great responsibility.

I heard something today about Jane Goodall's research on chimpanzees.
She observed that they lived in tribes, which was fine.
But if any chimp that was not a part of the tribe was discovered in their territory,
they would literally tear them apart.

This is the sort of tribalism I see in the church.

Galatians 5:14-15 NIV
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[a]
15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

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[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Is the Logos meaningful, or meaningless? - Depends on your view of Logos.

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[Ghada]

We are stewards of our bodies to be certain. We are to be good stewards of all God has put into our hands. How well are we doing? How close are we to inheriting? Are we even moving in that direction? God knows all these things!

True. So do we know all our own things, if we're being honest with ourselves with Jesus and His words.

 

[Lizbeth]

Have you seen this analysis?

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word
mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below.
This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and
the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of
the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world,
according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children
for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

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I'm no scholar, but it seems that word is used interchangeably in scripture.....it can mean an age that has an end, or it can be talking about an age that has no end, and as you've pointed out it is translated as world in places too. We can't do without the Holy Spirit to help us understand and rightly divide. Myself I wonder if some verses might have been written from God's eternal perspective outside of time and some verses in scripture can be talking about things from an earthly perspective. A scripture means what God intended it to mean and sometimes only He can show us what He meant in any particular passage. In the meantime the message that comes through loud and clear is that being found in one's sins and being condemned by God and winding up in the lake of fire.......is not something to be desired and that "losing one's life in this world" in order to gain eternal life is more than worth it!

 

[Lizbeth]

It sounds like you have swung too far out of a balanced view.
Emotions come into play in the fruit of the Spirit. Unless you think love, joy, peace, forbearance,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control should be emotionless expressions. ???

Galatians 5:22-23 NIV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

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What I glean is that emotions, like our thoughts and imaginations need to be sanctified for God's use....under the rulership of Christ in us. Not that we cease to have them. But being in the spirit diminishes our fleshly emotions, insomuch that they are under God's rule and not ruling over us.

What some may not realize about the fruits of the SPIRIT, is that they are spiritual, not fleshly. God is not talking about fleshly emotions, but qualities that are of the Holy Spirit. There's a world of difference between self-righteousness and the righteousness of Christ/His Spirit. Jesus said that instead of going around seeking to establish our own righteousness, which the bible refers to as filthy rags, we are to submit to the righteousness of Christ in us.

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm no scholar, but it seems that word is used interchangeably in scripture.....it can mean an age that has an end, or it can be talking about an age that has no end, and as you've pointed out it is translated as world in places too.

The word "age" implies a beginning and an end.
No such thing as an endless age.

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[St. SteVen]

What I glean is that emotions, like our thoughts and imaginations need to be sanctified for God's use....under the rulership of Christ in us. Not that we cease to have them. But being in the spirit diminishes our fleshly emotions, insomuch that they are under God's rule and not ruling over us.

I agree for the most part. But I think you take this too far.
I would say that the Spirit magnifies our positive emotions.
The physical (what you would label as fleshly) emotions that come
with serving others in love, and the associated joy.

What some may not realize about the fruits of the SPIRIT, is that they are spiritual, not fleshly. God is not talking about fleshly emotions, but qualities that are of the Holy Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit is singular.
The "produce" of the maturity we realize in walking by the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23 NIV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

There's a world of difference between self-righteousness and the righteousness of Christ/His Spirit. Jesus said that instead of going around seeking to establish our own righteousness, which the bible refers to as filthy rags, we are to submit to the righteousness of Christ in us.

Mostly agree.
As I understand it, Christ is our righteousness.

Philippians 3:9 NIV
and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law,
but that which is through faith in[a] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.

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[Lizbeth]

The word "age" implies a beginning and an en end.
No such thing as an endless age.

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According to one meaning of the word, yes, good point. This age is certainly coming to an end. But that isn't the only meaning or use of that word, as we've seen, and it's a case of spiritual things being conveyed through human language. (The bible puts things so beautifully I find.) Maybe we shouldn't think in terms of a new "age" to come in a strict sense so much as in terms of a "new order" of things (as Revelation puts it) that will last forever...."world without end". Good to consider what the scriptures say about the same subject elsewhere....whole counsel of God. Maybe because this temporal age is sort of being compared with what is to come, so what is to come is sometimes being called an age too even though it isn't really strictly speaking, being eternal. (What is eternal is spiritual and what has an end is temporal./physical.) But we are only seeing through a glass darkly at best and I'm sure there is more to it than we can really fathom.

 

[St. SteVen]

According to one meaning of the word, yes, good point. This age is certainly coming to an end. But that isn't the only meaning or use of that word, as we've seen, and it's a case of spiritual things being conveyed through human language. (The bible puts things so beautifully I find.) Maybe we shouldn't think in terms of a new "age" to come in a strict sense so much as in terms of a "new order" of things (as Revelation puts it) that will last forever...."world without end". Good to consider what the scriptures say about the same subject elsewhere....whole counsel of God. Maybe because this temporal age is sort of being compared with what is to come, so what is to come is sometimes being called an age too even though it isn't really strictly speaking, being eternal. (What is eternal is spiritual and what has an end is temporal./physical.) But we are only seeing through a glass darkly at best and I'm sure there is more to it than we can really fathom.

There is evidence for ages to come and ages past. Ages. (plural)

Joel 2:2 NIV
a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like dawn spreading across the mountains
a large and mighty army comes,
such as never was in ancient times
nor ever will be in ages to come.

Romans 16:25 NIV
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel,
the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation
of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

1 Corinthians 10:11 NIV
These things happened to them as examples and were written down
as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.

Ephesians 2:7 NIV
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches
of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:9 NIV
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery,
which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

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[MatthewG]

It becomes dangerous when one becomes prideful, and states if you do not believe like me, you are not even saved by the Lord Jesus Christ! That was how walk as a babe in Christ. Always looking and judging everyone, then a teacher helped me realize what was needed, the Spirit. As babes of Christ, people aren't supposed to have it all down right away, sometimes they bicker and complain and even sometimes finger-point without looking at themselves in the middle first. Take me and you for example St. Steven, we been there before, it's all okay though the more one decides to rest, and abide in the Lord and recieve rest for ones soul, amen.

Matthew 11:28 “Come to Me, all [a]who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find [b]rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is comfortable, and My burden is light.”

It takes time, and learning from him, and about his gentle and humble heart.

 

[St. SteVen]

It becomes dangerous when one becomes prideful, and states if you do not believe like me, you are not even saved by the Lord Jesus Christ!

Indeed.
We need to understand that there is a broad diversity in the Body of Christ.
I think Christians don't like that term "diversity" because it sounds politicized.

Take me and you for example St. Steven, we been there before, it's all okay though the more one decides to rest, and abide in the Lord and recieve rest for ones soul, amen.

Yup.
Build bridges, not walls.

It takes time, and learning from him, and about his gentle and humble heart.

Right, I think that's key.

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