wrong ! I didn't take away anything. I just stated a fact. But you are so ready to condemn me for doing it. Go blame the guy who added it.
The Power to not sin in the flesh
- Thread starter H. Richard
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wrong ! I didn't take away anything. I just stated a fact. But you are so ready to condemn me for doing it. Go blame the guy who added it.
Aren't we supposed to not be doing that?
Questioning each other's salvation,those who identify as Christian? Isn't the the policy of this board?
Much love!
When I read it, I find that taking away the latter half of Romans 8:1 changes the meaning of the entire text (from Romans 7:14 through to the end of Romans 8).
In one instance, it teaches that we can walk according to the flesh and there is still no condemnation for us. In the other, it teaches that there is condemnation for those who walk according to the flesh; for it identifies them as not being "in Christ."
I find that if the second is true and anyone holds to the first, they might begin to have a false assurance, believing that there is no condemnation for them when there really is. They will walk according to the flesh thinking that there are no consequences; when the truer rendering of the verse indicates that there are consequences.
I was making a general statement about how we interpret the text, and was not singling out anyone in particular.
Nobody added anything. It was taken away.
If it had been added, then the plagues of the book of Revelation would have been added to the people who added it (Revelation 22:18).
And hey...you choose your own condemnation if you continue to take away from the word (Revelation 22:19) the way some translations do...so I am not the one condemning you.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This part.
The first part, there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, is not changed by the next part, which describes them, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
Now. Is this describing bad and good behavior? Is the Christian condemned for their behavior?
We don't have to speculate, we can know who God is talking about.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Walking after the Spirit is synonymous with being "after the Spirit".
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
And the definition is given in the text, this is based on whether or not the Spirit if God lives in you.
Condemnation is based on whether or not we are reborn, with God now living in us, not whether or not we engage in bad behavior.
Much love!
When we read it in the versions that do not take away the latter half, we find that those who are in Christ are those who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit...it defines those who are in Christ.
So if we are engaging in bad behaviour it is very likely because we are not in Christ.
And of course the condemnation would be based on the fact that we are not in Christ, not our bad behaviour.
The bad behaviour would only be the indication before the Lord that we are not in Christ; for which we would find ourselves condemned.
But these are later said to be those in whom the Spirit lives. That is who is In Christ.
Much love!
Then this is back to the idea that a real Christian never sins, is that what you mean to say?
If the following be true...
KJV Romans 2
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
.. And we as Christians are circumcised in our hearts, making us spiritual Jews, what then do you make of this....
KJV Romans 2
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
KJV Romans 2
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
.. And we as Christians are circumcised in our hearts, making us spiritual Jews, what then do you make of this....
KJV Romans 2
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
A real follower of Christ [Christian] should be striving not to sin, but most, if not all, of them do. If I had met one, who did not sin, however, how would I know it, since I am not to that point myself? I often see those who manifest too often that they do sin. But... the one who has already left his sins all behind... That one? I won't say there are none of those, but I don't doubt God's ability to take someone to that point... if a person will allow it. When we don't stay sinless, it is because we have taken our eyes off of Him and looked at something else that was attractive to us instead...
Help us dear Lord!
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Can you read. I did not take away anything. Some one added those words and I have just reported it. You claim to be sinless because you have the power to not sin. That is boasting.
Rom 3:24-28
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Boasting Excluded
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
NKJV
These are just a few of the Bibles that omit those words as explained in the OP. I did not take away those words. There are more that I could reference but I realize it would not make a dent in what some write about me. Some, so called Bible scholars just want to stick their heads in the sand and refuse to see what is obvious.
Rom 8:1-4
1 For this cause those who are in Christ Jesus will not be judged as sinners.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law was not able to do because it was feeble through the flesh, God, sending his Son in the image of the evil flesh, and as an offering for sin, gave his decision against sin in the flesh:
4 So that what was ordered by the law might be done in us, who are living, not in the way of the flesh, but in the way of the Spirit.
BBE
Rom 8:1-5
1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.
3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.
4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.
Rom 8:1-6
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
ASV
Rom 8:1-4
1 For this cause those who are in Christ Jesus will not be judged as sinners.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law was not able to do because it was feeble through the flesh, God, sending his Son in the image of the evil flesh, and as an offering for sin, gave his decision against sin in the flesh:
4 So that what was ordered by the law might be done in us, who are living, not in the way of the flesh, but in the way of the Spirit.
BBE
Rom 8:1-5
1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.
3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.
4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.
Rom 8:1-6
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
ASV
I do not claim to be sinless. I do not even claim that sin is rendered dead within me. I do claim that the scripture teaches that this is a possibility, and also the goal of the Holy Spirit in sanctifying us.
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Rom 8:1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The latter part of this belongs in the holy scripture. If it were added, then the ones who translated it should have had the plagues of the book of Revelation added to them. But this was not the case.
Fact is, the latter part of this verse is taken away in some versions. And those who took it away (as well as those who take it away by claiming that taking it away is accurate), face the judgment of having their names taken out of the book of life and their part taken away from the holy city.
Rev 22:18, For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Because they think that they have no condemnation even though they walk according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit.
But the accurate rendering teaches us that if we are in Christ Jesus, we walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh; and that there is therefore now no condemnation for us.
If we walk according to the flesh, then the promise of no condemnation is simply not applied.
But for those who walk according to the flesh and think that they have no condemnation because they took away from the word of God (specifically Romans 8:1), there is definitely condemnation over that; not only because they took away from the word of the Lord; but because they are walking in the flesh thinking (inaccurately) that they have no condemnation (when in all reality there is grave condemnation upon them).
The latter part of this belongs in the holy scripture. If it were added, then the ones who translated it should have had the plagues of the book of Revelation added to them. But this was not the case.
Fact is, the latter part of this verse is taken away in some versions. And those who took it away (as well as those who take it away by claiming that taking it away is accurate), face the judgment of having their names taken out of the book of life and their part taken away from the holy city.
Rev 22:18, For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Because they think that they have no condemnation even though they walk according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit.
But the accurate rendering teaches us that if we are in Christ Jesus, we walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh; and that there is therefore now no condemnation for us.
If we walk according to the flesh, then the promise of no condemnation is simply not applied.
But for those who walk according to the flesh and think that they have no condemnation because they took away from the word of God (specifically Romans 8:1), there is definitely condemnation over that; not only because they took away from the word of the Lord; but because they are walking in the flesh thinking (inaccurately) that they have no condemnation (when in all reality there is grave condemnation upon them).
Those in whom the Spirit lives will walk according to the Spirit.
A real Christian may sin; but the general direction of his life is not towards sin any longer; it is away from sin.
He will sin less as time passes.
Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
The real believer in Christ is on migration out of the old country, SIN, and is heading towards the new country, RIGHTEOUSNESS.
When he crosses the boundary into the new country, he is no longer abiding in the old.
And I don't think that physical death is always the immediate result of crossing the boundary from the old country into the new.
It is more like, when we come to Christ, we leave the old country, SIN, and enter into a transitory country, PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION, and are headed into a new country, RIGHTEOUSNESS, or ENTIRE SANCTIFICATION.
In the transitory country, there are influences from both the old country and the new.
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Amen!
2 Peter 1:19 "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts"
Much love!
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