The Presence of God

[Angelina]

This is interesting...have you ever known the intimacy of the Holy Spirit. Have you ever been in communication with him? When we sin, that communication stops until it is restored again through true repentance.

 

[justaname]

This is interesting...have you ever known the intimacy of the Holy Spirit. Have you ever been in communication with him? When we sin, that communication stops until it is restored again through true repentance.

I think this is a difference or distinction that many do not comprehend. Our relation is in Christ, with His Spirit in us. He is the Holy One of God without sin, while we are continually being sanctified depending on Him for salvation and intercession. It is not that His Spirt leaves us because of sin, nor can we ever escape His presence for He is omnipresent. Yet our relation can be hindered or stunted, and is hobbled by sin. Your quote of Isaiah sums it up best. Lets post it for all to read:

1 Behold, the Lord’s hand is not so short
That it cannot save;
Nor is His ear so dull
That it cannot hear.
2 But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God,
And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

Personally I do not believe children of God remain slaves to sin, rather they are slaves of Jesus Christ. This distinction allows us to see and know who are the children of God.

1 John 3:5-10
5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Sin is not the vehicle that disqualifies us for salvation rather its absence is the evidence of those who are in the process of salvation. If sin is prevalent in the life of a so called believer, I would call into question this faith that is claimed. I see the 1 John passage in this manner with myself as the example:

A birds eye view of my life would reveal that once I surrendered my life to Christ, a dramatic change occurred. It is not that I suddenly became sinless, rather I suddenly became unpleasantly and shamefully aware of my sin. It sickened me to the very core of my being even making me physically, emotionally, and mentally ill. God gave me insight into the blackness of my heart contrasted against His pure Light. I wept and begged Him to show me no more. I no longer desire the works of the devil. I deeply long for the work of Christ to be perfected in my life and reflected in my every thought, word, and deed. In this it is my momentary task and struggle to consistently and constantly glorify God in all that I do. I now have a new desire that is contrary to sin. I am now dead to sin and alive to Messiah!

 

[Angelina]

A birds eye view of my life would reveal that once I surrendered my life to Christ, a dramatic change occurred. It is not that I suddenly became sinless, rather I suddenly became unpleasantly and shamefully aware of my sin. It sickened me to the very core of my being even making me physically, emotionally, and mentally ill. God gave me insight into the blackness of my heart contrasted against His pure Light

Amen...we have a personal relationship with him through the Holy Spirit. This is when we begin to walk [in the process of sanctification] according to God's will and word. The HS teaches us to practice righteousness through the daily decisions we make and situations that occur and helps us to choose the right path when we are at crossroads between doing things the old soulish way or doing what is right in Christ. Galatians 5:16-17. When we begin to walk contrary to God's word through sin because our soul desires to be gratified, we slowly walk out of the center of his will. This eventually hinders our communication/connection with the HS and stops us from growing any further. Heaven seems to be silent and our prayers begin to feel like they are going as far as the roof.... When we repent from the heart, our training/ teaching continues onward with the Spirits assistance...

Personally I do not believe children of God remain slaves to sin, rather they are slaves of Jesus Christ. This distinction allows us to see and know who are the children of God.

We are slaves to whomever we have allowed to be our master...

 

[mjrhealth]

When we begin to walk contrary to God's word through sin because our soul desires to be gratified, we slowly walk out of the center of his will. This eventually hinders our communication/connection with the HS and stops us from growing any further

YEs and no. When I became a young christian, i did not find it abnormal just to walk down teh street and have conversations with Jesus, just seemed the right thing to do. Still do today. yet there would be weeks when all would be well, than things would stop. Happened many times, i used to question Him lots on this still do today, because at some stage all would be well again, and i never did anything different, just happened. Didnt stop me talking to Him still have my faith. Beside Jesus would never leave me, He is always here.

 

[Angelina]

YEs and no. When I became a young christian, i did not find it abnormal just to walk down teh street and have conversations with Jesus, just seemed the right thing to do. Still do today. yet there would be weeks when all would be well, than things would stop. Happened many times, i used to question Him lots on this still do today, because at some stage all would be well again, and i never did anything different, just happened. Didnt stop me talking to Him still have my faith. Beside Jesus would never leave me, He is always here.

You are talking about a different situation there... God is very patient and gracious to new believers because they are babies in the Lord, learning how to walk and reliant on milk. That does not mean that he is not gracious to older believers but somewhere in his word he says;

3. When I kept silent, my bones grew old Through my groaning all the day long.
4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
5 I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah 6 For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You In a time when You may be found; Surely in a flood of great waters They shall not come near him. 7 You are my hiding place; You shall preserve me from trouble; You shall surround me with songs of deliverance. Selah

I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye. 9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed with bit and bridle,Else they will not come near you.

10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked; But he who trusts in the Lord, mercy shall surround him. Psalms 32

There is a time in every believers life, where they need training/instruction and discipline...

Hebrews 12
4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

Bless you!

 

[lforrest]

That depends on your definition of separation and whether you think it's a physical or spiritual one? A simple human hair can separate one person from another and I'm sure there is a spiritual counterpart to that. The Bible uses a lot of examples of separation. When is as far as the East is from the West. How far is that I wonder?

Yes, we would need to know exactly what you mean by separation.

The Holy Spirit doesn't leave a believer when they sin and return when they repent. The Spirit remains, but you can become estranged to him. Sort of like a married couple with a bad relationship, but they don't want a divorce.

 

[StanJ]

Yes, we would need to know exactly what you mean by separation.
The Holy Spirit doesn't leave a believer when they sin and return when they repent. The Spirit remains, but you can become estranged to him. Sort of like a married couple with a bad relationship, but they don't want a divorce.

Good example. We can have a strained relationship with God, or become apostate. There a huge gulf in the middle of that called separation.

 

[Rachne83T]

That depends on your definition of separation and whether you think it's a physical or spiritual one? A simple human hair can separate one person from another and I'm sure there is a spiritual counterpart to that. The Bible uses a lot of examples of separation. When is as far as the East is from the West. How far is that I wonder?

Whenever you commit a sin
is it physical or spiritual or both?

 

[Barrd]

If the Holy Spirit indeed dwells within your heart, you will feel grief and shame when you disobey the Lord...that is, when you sin.
That is a large part of His job...to call to your mind all of the things that the Lord taught us, and to conform your spirit to His.
You will not be comfortable or happy until you have truly repented of your sin.

 

[StanJ]

Whenever you commit a sin
is it physical or spiritual or both?

That depends on what you define physical as being? Is your carnal nature a physical thing or a spiritual thing?

 

[Barrd]

I find it fascinating that so many will quote Romans 6:14, thinking that this releases them from any need to obey God's laws...and completely ignore the very next verses:

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I have often wondered...if the law were "done away" as so many seem to think...then how are we sinners? Sin is transgression of the law...isn't it? If there is no law to transgress, obviously there can be no sin.

And, if there is no sin...what need have we of grace?


Honestly, it seems that some folks just haven't thought it through...

 

[Rachne83T]

That depends on what you define physical as being? Is your carnal nature a physical thing or a spiritual thing?

I define it exactly as Jesus.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Using this definition of physical and spiritual, what is the truth
whenever you commit a sin, is it physical or spiritual or both?

 

[StanJ]

I define it exactly as Jesus.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Using this definition of physical and spiritual, what is the truth
whenever you commit a sin, is it physical or spiritual or both?

So you define it as carnal, and as such, all sin is carnal.

 

[StanJ]

Romans 14:23

...everything that does not come from faith is sin.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sin is transgression of the law...isn't it?

When was the law instuted to teh "israelites"gentiles not included. please note

Gen_4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Sin was around since Adam long before the law was given.

Honestly, it seems that some folks just haven't thought it through...

Yes you are right, God ceratinly thought it through long before He created man. Pity so many reject our Lords grace and works so they can please the flesh through there own.

Sin is transgression of the law...isn't it? If there is no law to transgress, obviously there can be no sin.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Seems some really havnt thought it through.

 

[Barrd]

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[StanJ]

1 John 3:5

But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

 

[Rachne83T]

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What law?

 

[Rachne83T]

Romans 14:23

...everything that does not come from faith is sin.

Faith in what?

 

[Barrd]

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.