The Quality of Faith Is Not Strained!

[Netchaplain]

Among the identities of the Christian, which are faith, holiness, righteousness, justification, sanctification, etc., faith is the only attribute which is not a constant. Upon regeneration (rebirth) by the Holy Spirit the believer is holy, righteous, justified and sanctified, which are states of being, not doing. The doing (works) will result from these, which are imputed and not imparted (1 Cor 1:30). They are vicariously possessed in us through the life of Christ (Col 3:4) by the Spirit and cannot be produced, thus one can only “bear,” not produce, “much fruit” (John 15:8).

Knowing the responsibility of producing is of God (it must be “worked in you” Phl 2:13) allows us to rest from the needless labors of attempting to bring about that which He supplies. This frees us more to do our part, which is to "labor to enter that rest," e.g. labor to rest, or believe in the sufficiency of Christ's atonement alone for our support, and true godliness will follow—in our works—not by them. Belief which is exercised in anything other than the efficacy of Christ, is an "example of unbelief" (Heb 4:11).

That which is constant (holiness, righteousness, etc.) does not vary in degrees, thus the believer will not be more saved (but more delivered from the body—Rom 8:23) in Heaven any more than now, as is the same for all of the remaining Christian attributes. One cannot be more holy or righteous now than at the time of regeneration because these are immutable (Rom 11:29), being imputed from Christ. Can He be more holy or just? “As He is, so are we” (1 John 4:17).

It is the grace of faith that progresses (1 Pet 1:5-7) from these imputed attributes, as the Spirit incrementally “changes” the believer “from glory to glory” (2 Cor 3:18)—without end. Some have the idea that sanctification is a variable because they relate it to that of doing instead of being, but this attribute is always in the present tense and is, as the others are, a single occurrence at rebirth.

As that which is imputed is more understood and learned of by the Spirit, that which is not a constant (faith and works) will continue to increase for the purpose of showing or "glorifying" the life of Christ, thus fellowship, worship and service will attain an ever increasing pace.

-NC

 

[Giver]

Among the identities of the Christian, which are faith, holiness, righteousness, justification, sanctification, etc., faith is the only attribute which is not a constant. Upon regeneration (rebirth) by the Holy Spirit the believer is holy, righteous, justified and sanctified, which are states of being, not doing. The doing (works) will result from these, which are imputed and not imparted (1 Cor 1:30). They are vicariously possessed in us through the life of Christ (Col 3:4) by the Spirit and cannot be produced, thus one can only “bear,” not produce, “much fruit” (John 15:8).

Knowing the responsibility of producing is of God (it must be “worked in you” Phl 2:13) allows us to rest from the needless labors of attempting to bring about that which He supplies. This frees us more to do our part, which is to "labor to enter that rest," e.g. labor to rest, or believe in the sufficiency of Christ's atonement alone for our support, and true godliness will follow—in our works—not by them. Belief which is exercised in anything other than the efficacy of Christ, is an "example of unbelief" (Heb 4:11).

That which is constant (holiness, righteousness, etc.) does not vary in degrees, thus the believer will not be more saved (but more delivered from the body—Rom 8:23) in Heaven any more than now, as is the same for all of the remaining Christian attributes. One cannot be more holy or righteous now than at the time of regeneration because these are immutable (Rom 11:29), being imputed from Christ. Can He be more holy or just? “As He is, so are we” (1 John 4:17).

It is the grace of faith that progresses (1 Pet 1:5-7) from these imputed attributes, as the Spirit incrementally “changes” the believer “from glory to glory” (2 Cor 3:18)—without end. Some have the idea that sanctification is a variable because they relate it to that of doing instead of being, but this attribute is always in the present tense and is, as the others are, a single occurrence at rebirth.

As that which is imputed is more understood and learned of by the Spirit, that which is not a constant (faith and works) will continue to increase for the purpose of showing or "glorifying" the life of Christ, thus fellowship, worship and service will attain an ever increasing pace.

-NC

[SIZE=large]A Christian is in the kingdom of God when he or she proves to God they love him. The only way one can love God is to live his whole Word.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=large](John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=large]Any one who continues to sin will never enter the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=large](1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”[/SIZE]

 

[Elizabeth]

[SIZE=large]Any one who continues to sin will never enter the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=large](1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”[/SIZE]

The sins mentioned in 1 Corinthians above are, to use St. John's words, "sins unto death" i.e. mortal sins. Anyone who continues to sin mortally will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Mortal sins are 100% avoidable and must be avoided for salvation. But St. John also mentions "sins not unto death" (1 Jn 5:16-17). These sins, unlike mortal sins, do not result in the death of the soul and cannot be entirely avoided. Hence Scripture says, whoever says he is without sin is a liar.

 

[Dodo_David]

[SIZE=large]Any one who continues to sin will never enter the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]

In Romans 7:19 (ESV) the Apostle Paul says the following about himself:
"For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing."

Paul acknowledged that he continued to sin despite the fact that he was one of Christ's Apostles.

Thus, I cannot reconcile the above-quoted claim to what I see taught in the New Testament.

 

[Netchaplain]

“Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned” (Prov 6:27). Neither can anyone have the Adamic nature (“old man”—“flesh”) and not be affected by it, but through the Crucifixion in believers it cannot exert its damning power (Rom 8:1) nor exercise its domineering power (Rom 6:12, 14).

Believers were “crucified with Christ” (Gal 2:20), died with Christ (Col 3:3) and are “raised up together, and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (Eph 2:6). All of this is past tense concerning our position (guaranteed place with Christ—Rom 11:29). Therefore, in our condition (earthly life) we are guiltless from the presence of sin (old man), and freed from the rule of sin.

This means the sins of the believer are not willful (Heb 10:26) and the wrongs will continue to become increasingly less, because God “works in you” (Phl 2:13) to desire what He desires, and the Spirit opposes the source of our sin (old man—Gal 5:17).

 

[Elizabeth]

Therefore, in our condition (earthly life) we are guiltless from the presence of sin (old man), and freed from the rule of sin.

This means the sins of the believer are not willful (Heb 10:26) and the wrongs will continue to become increasingly less, because God “works in you” (Phl 2:13) to desire what He desires, and the Spirit opposes the source of our sin (old man—Gal 5:17).

St. Paul feared lest he should fall into mortal sin and lose his salvation 1 Corthinthians 9:27. There are many who have been baptized i.e. received santifying grace who later fell into mortal sins and lost their salvation. Yes it's true, Christians are very capable of committing the mortal sins of adultery, robbery, murder, drunkenness, fornication etc., and thereby lose their salvation. There are many examples of this even throughout the modern world. It doesn't matter if you are a believer or a pagan, all who do these things will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. These are the words of Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 6:9-19.

 

[Netchaplain]

St. Paul feared lest he should fall into mortal sin and lose his salvation 1 Corthinthians 9:27. There are many who have been baptized i.e. received santifying grace who later fell into mortal sins and lost their salvation. Yes it's true, Christians are very capable of committing the mortal sins of adultery, robbery, murder, drunkenness, fornication etc., and thereby lose their salvation. There are many examples of this even throughout the modern world. It doesn't matter if you are a believer or a pagan, all who do these things will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. These are the words of Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 6:9-19.

Hi Elizabeth - It's true that the source of all sin, even as wicked as can be, remains an indwelling nature with the believer, but I do not think it reasonable that one in whom the life of Christ dwells (Col 3:4) and in whom the Father and Spirit works ,would ever encounter the desire to reject God. The sins done in the saints as examples to us preceded the time God chose to use them for His glorification.

This would mean His work might not be effective in the believer, which is not an accepted concept. It's a matter of understanding what God shows us concerning His meaning here. Pleas allow me to share this:

“I myself should be a castaway”; or rejected, or disapproved of; that is, by men: the Apostle's concern is, lest he should do anything that might bring a reproach on the Gospel; lest some corruption of his nature or other should break out, and thereby his ministry be justly blamed, and be brought under contempt; and so he be rejected and disapproved of by men, and become useless as a preacher.

Not that he feared he should become a reprobate, as the word is opposed to an elect person (1 Tim 1:12), or that he should be a castaway eternally, or be everlastingly damned. For he knew in Whom he had believed, and was persuaded of his interest in the love of God, and that he was a chosen vessel of salvation, that could not be eternally lost: though supposing that this is his sense, and these his fears and concern, it follows not as neither that he was, so neither that he could be a lost and damned person.

The fears of the saints, their godly jealousies of themselves, and pious care that they be not lost, are not at all inconsistent with the firmness of their election, their security in Christ, and the impossibility of their final and total falling away; but on the contrary are overruled, and made use of by the Spirit of God, for their final perseverance in grace and holiness. John Gill

http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/1corinthians/gill/1corinthians9.htm

God’s blessings to your Family!

 

[Giver]

St. Paul feared lest he should fall into mortal sin and lose his salvation 1 Corthinthians 9:27. There are many who have been baptized i.e. received santifying grace who later fell into mortal sins and lost their salvation. Yes it's true, Christians are very capable of committing the mortal sins of adultery, robbery, murder, drunkenness, fornication etc., and thereby lose their salvation. There are many examples of this even throughout the modern world. It doesn't matter if you are a believer or a pagan, all who do these things will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. These are the words of Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 6:9-19.

[SIZE=16pt]Any sin a Spiritual Christian deliberately/knowingly commits is mortal. There is no coming back for such a person.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.[/SIZE] Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

[SIZE=16pt]A Spiritual Christian is one who has been given the knowledge of the truth. [/SIZE]

 

[Netchaplain]

[SIZE=16pt]Any sin a Spiritual Christian deliberately/knowingly commits is mortal. There is no coming back for such a person.[/SIZE]

I believe any sin, even if it is one, regardless of how small, it is worthy of death, "For the wages of sin is death" (Rom 6:23). It's not a issue of sinning, but why we sin. If it's willful, it is evidence of an unregenerate state, and willful sin has never been forgiven of a person (Num 15:30).

Only those who are reborn (regenerated) will not desire to sin!

 

[Giver]

I believe any sin, even if it is one, regardless of how small, it is worthy of death, "For the wages of sin is death" (Rom 6:23). It's not a issue of sinning, but why we sin. If it's willful, it is evidence of an unregenerate state, and willful sin has never been forgiven of a person (Num 15:30).

Only those who are reborn (regenerated) will not desire to sin!

[SIZE=16pt]That is your opinion, but I believe scripture says different.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 5:17)[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] “Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.[/SIZE] Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

[Netchaplain]

My Brother, give 1 John 5:16, 17 a try with this:

http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/1john/gill/1john5.htm

 

[Giver]

My Brother, give 1 John 5:16, 17 a try with this:

http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/1john/gill/1john5.htm

[SIZE=16pt]I do not read any links found on forums.[/SIZE]

 

[Netchaplain]

[SIZE=16pt]I do not read any links found on forums.[/SIZE]

Okay, sorry and God's blessings to your Family! Appreciate your fellowship in the Word!

 

[williemac]

[SIZE=16pt]Any sin a Spiritual Christian deliberately/knowingly commits is mortal. There is no coming back for such a person.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.[/SIZE] Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

[SIZE=16pt]A Spiritual Christian is one who has been given the knowledge of the truth. [/SIZE]

This passage can only be understood in light of the context that it lies within.

First fact: the old sacrifices were taken away. While they were in place, those who committed sin were covered by those sacrifices. They were a reminder of sin. But they had a weakness. They could not make anyone perfect. Therefore they needed to be repeated over and over. This is all revealed by the author who is writing to convince his Hebrew readers that the sacrifice of Jesus was far superior, His ministry far superior, and the new covenant in His blood far superior, to all that they came to replace.

So now, you are presenting a conclusion that renders the sacrifice of Jesus as not having any power to do what the old sacrifices accomplished. You are proposing a covenant that gives people a one time gift of forgiveness and after that it is all up to the believer to hold on for dear life or else it is all over. This is the new covenant? Sounds like we would have been better off keeping the yearly sacrifices.

The author rather compared Jesus' sacrifice to the old ones by revealing that it accomplished what the old ones failed to do, which is to perfect forever those who are being sanctified. Perfection forever (Heb.10:14). Furthermore, the old sacrifices failed to give the people no more consciousness of sins (vs.2). vs.4&11....for it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

So from this passage, what is it that sin needs taken away from? Exactly...the consciousness. God has promised in this covenant that "their sins and lawless deeds, I will remember no more" (vs.17) . But the next verse sheds further light..." Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin"

So let us consider, how have our sins been remitted? Are they removed from us? Apparently not. Otherwise we would no longer have the ability to sin. They are removed rather from our record. This is a permanent removal. Otherwise the author could not claim "perfection forever". The sacrifice of Jesus, once applied, is perpetual. So then, we come to vs.26.

Because the old sacrifices are no longer in place, those who sin have no sacrifice...... Unless they have accepted the new one by faith.

The author has told them that since they have been informed, having received the knowledge of the truth, their sins are no longer covered by the old sacrifices. He is speaking of those who have heard the gospel and have rejected this new offering, this new covenant. He is speaking of those who sin outside of the blood of Jesus. How can I say this for sure? Easy. I simply kept reading....vs.39... "but we are not of those who draw back to perdition but of those who believe to the saving of the soul" .

It is impossible that vs.26 is speaking of a 'Christian' who deliberately sins. How is it that God accomplished in us perfection forever, otherwise? Did He drop that ball? And what if a believer sins? Read 1John 2:1...we have an advocate with the father. Jesus, as our High Priest, has 'less' power to keep us in good standing than the previous high priests? Really? One bad day and its all over?

The disciples once asked Jesus how many times they should forgive a brother....seven? He replied, more like 70 times seven. In other words..keep doing it. Do you suppose that He would not do the same?

 

[Giver]

This passage can only be understood in light of the context that it lies within.

First fact: the old sacrifices were taken away. While they were in place, those who committed sin were covered by those sacrifices. They were a reminder of sin. But they had a weakness. They could not make anyone perfect. Therefore they needed to be repeated over and over. This is all revealed by the author who is writing to convince his Hebrew readers that the sacrifice of Jesus was far superior, His ministry far superior, and the new covenant in His blood far superior, to all that they came to replace.

So now, you are presenting a conclusion that renders the sacrifice of Jesus as not having any power to do what the old sacrifices accomplished. You are proposing a covenant that gives people a one time gift of forgiveness and after that it is all up to the believer to hold on for dear life or else it is all over. This is the new covenant? Sounds like we would have been better off keeping the yearly sacrifices.

The author rather compared Jesus' sacrifice to the old ones by revealing that it accomplished what the old ones failed to do, which is to perfect forever those who are being sanctified. Perfection forever (Heb.10:14). Furthermore, the old sacrifices failed to give the people no more consciousness of sins (vs.2). vs.4&11....for it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

So from this passage, what is it that sin needs taken away from? Exactly...the consciousness. God has promised in this covenant that "their sins and lawless deeds, I will remember no more" (vs.17) . But the next verse sheds further light..." Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin"

So let us consider, how have our sins been remitted? Are they removed from us? Apparently not. Otherwise we would no longer have the ability to sin. They are removed rather from our record. This is a permanent removal. Otherwise the author could not claim "perfection forever". The sacrifice of Jesus, once applied, is perpetual. So then, we come to vs.26.

Because the old sacrifices are no longer in place, those who sin have no sacrifice...... Unless they have accepted the new one by faith.

The author has told them that since they have been informed, having received the knowledge of the truth, their sins are no longer covered by the old sacrifices. He is speaking of those who have heard the gospel and have rejected this new offering, this new covenant. He is speaking of those who sin outside of the blood of Jesus. How can I say this for sure? Easy. I simply kept reading....vs.39... "but we are not of those who draw back to perdition but of those who believe to the saving of the soul" .

It is impossible that vs.26 is speaking of a 'Christian' who deliberately sins. How is it that God accomplished in us perfection forever, otherwise? Did He drop that ball? And what if a believer sins? Read 1John 2:1...we have an advocate with the father. Jesus, as our High Priest, has 'less' power to keep us in good standing than the previous high priests? Really? REALLY? WHAT KIND OF LAME COVENANT DO YOU THINK WE ARE PART OF? One bad day and its all over? C'mon, man...give our Lord some credit. What part of FULL OF MERCY AND GRACE escapes your comprehension?

[SIZE=16pt]No the author of Hebrews was not talking to Old Testament Jews/Hebrews.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The author was talking to Christians. Only Christians could have the knowledge of the truth. Only Christians could have had the Holy Spirit. Jews did not have the Holy Spirit so could not have insulted the Spirit of grace. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Hebrews is speaking to us; the Holy Spirit would not put a letter in our bible to give us a history lesson.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Calvin, Luther and the rest of the so-called Reformers, had to find a way to discredit Hebrews, because it shows their theology is not of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.[/SIZE] Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

[williemac]

[SIZE=16pt]No the author of Hebrews was not talking to Old Testament Jews/Hebrews.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The author was talking to Christians. Only Christians could have the knowledge of the truth. Only Christians could have had the Holy Spirit. Jews did not have the Holy Spirit so could not have insulted the Spirit of grace. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Hebrews is speaking to us; the Holy Spirit would not put a letter in our bible to give us a history lesson.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Calvin, Luther and the rest of the so-called Reformers, had to find a way to discredit Hebrews, because it shows their theology is not of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.[/SIZE] Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

I don't know the translation you are using, but the word is not deliberately. It is willfully.

Be that as it may, if it means what you say it means, then the author is contradicting everything he said previous to that and also vs. 39.
I showed from the context all the things necessary for one to see what is being communicated about the sacrifice of Jesus in comparison to the old sacrifices. If you don't care to use context in your interpretation of a passage, then it is no wonder that you come to such contradictory conclusions.

This is essentially what some people say about salvation: They say that the requirement has been changed. So far so good. Then they say that through faith, we are given the ability to walk in righteousness. So far so good. But then they suggest that we are required to use this ability in order to remain in good standing with God. FALSE! As I shared from 1John2:1, our standing with God is maintained by our Advocate, who is our High Priest.

A covenant is an agreement. God has agreed to remember our sins no more. That is His part of the covenant. Our part is to remain in the covenant the same way we got there. Through faith. However, faith is NOT the qualification for salvation. This is a common mistake that is made in Christianity.

Faith is the method by which we access gifts of grace. As an analogy, we can look at the driver's license. Our method for getting one is to study, practice, and take a test. But the qualifier is none of those. It is our age. We qualify when we reach the required age.

As well, faith is the method. The qualification is humility. God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud. This is the main reason that we are told that salvation comes as a gift that excludes works as a qualifier...so that no man can boast.

This is where many go south with their interpretation of such verses as Heb.10:26. They are essentially saying that we are required to deserve to keep what we have received by virtue of our behavior. So in other words, we begin our walk by faith, but that ends right away and we revert back to moral behavior (keeping of law). So in your world, the requirement changed temporarily, just long enough to get us in the door. But then it changes back to the old system.

If your interpretation of Heb.10:26 is correct, this is exactly what the logical conclusion comes to. So much for perfection forever.

What really takes place in the new birth is the receiving of a new spirit; one that is from His seed, and contains His righteousness and holiness. However, we have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). Our body of sin has not been changed yet. Therefore the soul is stuck between the two natures and has the task of learning the new one and walking accordingly.

But this is temporary. In the new heaven and earth, the influences that are here now will be done away with. As well, our body will also contain His nature. The soul will not need to choose between two natures. We will have all we need. There will be no lack, no loss, no shortage, and complete joy, peace, and fulfillment. The sin nature exists because all these are in short supply on earth. Even Eve was deceived into believing she was missing something. Sin is about going after something that God has freely given or is freely offering. Sin is about trying to produce something that only God can produce. This was the original offense of Lucifer. He wanted to take the place of God.

So how does this apply to our conversation? We can see from 1John 2:16, that there are three categories of offense that are in the world: they are the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. In this discussion, two of the three are the usual suspects. But we need to consider the last one. If in fact we are required to remain qualified for life through the abstinence of the first two, then we automatically break the third one. We are put into the arena of the possibility of boasting.

But even without all that information there is another incredulous idea. You are essentially saying that ALL sacrifice for sin is gone, so we have to keep from sinning. O, that's just perfect! :blink: No forgiveness needed for the righteous. No grace needed. No faith needed. No mercy needed. Yes, lets just hand all those things back to our Father, and tell Him, thanks for the use of them, but now I will take over from here. No need for an advocate. No need for a High Priest. All this from a contradictory interpretation of one verse.

 

[Giver]

I don't know the translation you are using, but the word is not deliberately. It is willfully.

Be that as it may, if it means what you say it means, then the author is contradicting everything he said previous to that and also vs. 39.
I showed from the context all the things necessary for one to see what is being communicated about the sacrifice of Jesus in comparison to the old sacrifices. If you don't care to use context in your interpretation of a passage, then it is no wonder that you come to such contradictory conclusions.

This is essentially what some people say about salvation: They say that the requirement has been changed. So far so good. Then they say that through faith, we are given the ability to walk in righteousness. So far so good. But then they suggest that we are required to use this ability in order to remain in good standing with God. FALSE! As I shared from 1John2:1, our standing with God is maintained by our Advocate, who is our High Priest.

A covenant is an agreement. God has agreed to remember our sins no more. That is His part of the covenant. Our part is to remain in the covenant the same way we got there. Through faith. However, faith is NOT the qualification for salvation. This is a common mistake that is made in Christianity.

Faith is the method by which we access gifts of grace. As an analogy, we can look at the driver's license. Our method for getting one is to study, practice, and take a test. But the qualifier is none of those. It is our age. We qualify when we reach the required age.

As well, faith is the method. The qualification is humility. God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud. This is the main reason that we are told that salvation comes as a gift that excludes works as a qualifier...so that no man can boast.

This is where many go south with their interpretation of such verses as Heb.10:26. They are essentially saying that we are required to deserve to keep what we have received by virtue of our behavior. So in other words, we begin our walk by faith, but that ends right away and we revert back to moral behavior (keeping of law). So in your world, the requirement changed temporarily, just long enough to get us in the door. But then it changes back to the old system.

If your interpretation of Heb.10:26 is correct, this is exactly what the logical conclusion comes to. So much for perfection forever.

What really takes place in the new birth is the receiving of a new spirit; one that is from His seed, and contains His righteousness and holiness. However, we have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). Our body of sin has not been changed yet. Therefore the soul is stuck between the two natures and has the task of learning the new one and walking accordingly.

But this is temporary. In the new heaven and earth, the influences that are here now will be done away with. As well, our body will also contain His nature. The soul will not need to choose between two natures. We will have all we need. There will be no lack, no loss, no shortage, and complete joy, peace, and fulfillment. The sin nature exists because all these are in short supply on earth. Even Eve was deceived into believing she was missing something. Sin is about going after something that God has freely given or is freely offering. Sin is about trying to produce something that only God can produce. This was the original offense of Lucifer. He wanted to take the place of God.

So how does this apply to our conversation? We can see from 1John 2:16, that there are three categories of offense that are in the world: they are the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. In this discussion, two of the three are the usual suspects. But we need to consider the last one. If in fact we are required to remain qualified for life through the abstinence of the first two, then we automatically break the third one. We are put into the arena of the possibility of boasting.

But even without all that information there is another incredulous idea. You are essentially saying that ALL sacrifice for sin is gone, so we have to keep from sinning. O, that's just perfect! :blink: No forgiveness needed for the righteous. No grace needed. No faith needed. No mercy needed. Yes, lets just hand all those things back to our Father, and tell Him, thanks for the use of them, but now I will take over from here. No need for an advocate. No need for a High Priest. All this from a contradictory interpretation of one verse.

[SIZE=16pt]No what I know and am trying to share is that once a person becomes a spiritual Christian, he or she will not sin. A Spiritual Christian will not sin, because God protects him or her. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]A Spiritual Christian still has a free will to sin, but it is for me, and I believe for John unbelievable to think any Spiritual Christian would ever be so foolish, as to deliberately sin. Hebrews tells us just how foolish.[/SIZE]

 

[williemac]

[SIZE=16pt]No what I know and am trying to share is that once a person becomes a spiritual Christian, he or she will not sin. A Spiritual Christian will not sin, because God protects him or her. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]A Spiritual Christian still has a free will to sin, but it is for me, and I believe for John unbelievable to think any Spiritual Christian would ever be so foolish, as to deliberately sin. Hebrews tells us just how foolish.[/SIZE]

So let me get this straight. This so called 'spiritual christian' will not sin because why? Because God is protecting him or her. If that is the case, then why do you also say that the same 'spiritual christian' has the free will to sin? So, he won't sin because of God's protection but he still can sin. So much for God's protection, huh? I wish you would make up your mind. Can he or can't he sin? And if he is so foolish as to sin, then what you are suggesting is that he plummets himself into eternal damnation with no chance of reversal. You serious? How is this a better covenant than the one where they sinned all the time and were kept in good standing by the continual sacrifices? They were safer then than we are now.

So what, the sacrifice of Jesus only applies to the 'accidental' sins of the believer? I think someone is feeding you with some strange doctrines. 1John 2:1 makes no mention of accidental sins vs. deliberate ones.

 

[Giver]

So let me get this straight. This so called 'spiritual christian' will not sin because why? Because God is protecting him or her. If that is the case, then why do you also say that the same 'spiritual christian' has the free will to sin? So, he won't sin because of God's protection but he still can sin. So much for God's protection, huh? I wish you would make up your mind. Can he or can't he sin? And if he is so foolish as to sin, then what you are suggesting is that he plummets himself into eternal damnation with no chance of reversal. You serious? How is this a better covenant than the one where they sinned all the time and were kept in good standing by the continual sacrifices? They were safer then than we are now.

So what, the sacrifice of Jesus only applies to the 'accidental' sins of the believer? I think someone is feeding you with some strange doctrines. 1John 2:1 makes no mention of accidental sins vs. deliberate ones.

[SIZE=large]I pray that God’s will is my will. I give God my free will in prayer all day long. He does not take my free will away from me, but I do his will at all times.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus has made a home in me. There is no sin in the kingdom of God. God’s home is the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=large](John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]I still have a free will to commit sin, but I am not that foolish.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Now these two people were that foolish, and you can see what happened to them.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=16pt](Acts 5:1-11) “There was another man, however, called Ananias. He and his wife, Sapphira, agreed to sell a property; but with his wife’s connivance he kept back part of the proceeds, and brought the rest and presented it to the apostles. Ananias, Peter said ‘now can Satan have so possessed you that you should lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the money from the land? While you still owned the land, wasn’t it yours to keep, and after you had sold it wasn’t the money yours to do with as you liked? What put this scheme into your mind? It is not to men that you have lied, but to God. When he heard this Ananias fell down dead. This made a profound impression on everyone present. The younger men got up, wrapped the body in a sheet, carried it out and buried it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had taken place. Peter challenged her, ‘Tell me was this the price you sold the land for? ‘Yes,’ she said ‘that was the price.’ Peter then said, ‘So you and your husband have agreed to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test! What made you do it? You hear those footsteps? They have just been to bury your husband; they will carry you out, too.’ Instantly she dropped dead at his feet. When the young men came in they found she was dead, and they carried her out and buried her by the side of her husband. This made a profound impression on the whole Church and on all who heard it.” [/SIZE]

 

[laid renard]

Works vs Grace......

Hmmm.......

I choose Grace !