I would say production of 0% fruit would result in being cast into outer darkness. 1% fruit? Saved from outer darkness with 99% loss of reward. Just my opinion.Episkopos said:
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
What does the bible say? No need of opinion! ;)
To suffer loss in the Greek is the same meaning as to be cut-off...
as in...what good is it to gain the whole world when your soul is cut-off... (lose your soul)
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
You don't have to! Get a bible and a concordance...e-sword is available online. Now check out the meanings... and doubt no more!
The problem with this kind of interpretation is that if it really means what you say, then the context is in contradiction with itself. The context I am referring to is of course the judgment seat of Christ, where if one's works are burned he suffers loss, but he himself will be saved, yet as through fire. How do you surmise that a person will be cut off and still be saved at the same time? Suffering loss of reward is the context. Cut off from some reward.Episkopos said:
Here is what you are maybe not getting. There are two extremes that were mentioned by Peter in 2Pet.1:1-11. He talked of being barren and unfruitful. This is an extreme. It is the opposite of fruitful to the point of an abundant entrance, the other extreme.
Would there be any point or profit to an exhortation to be mediocre? No. Peter rather exhorted his readers to the ultimate and highest goal. But on the other hand, he was not saying that anything less than that would be grounds for being cut off. No, but this is close to what you imply.
Our Lord has no interest in inspiring mediocrity. Neither should you or any of us. However, we do not have the right nor the calling to proclaim that a mediocre Christian is going to lose his life. In fact, Jesus promised otherwise in John5:24. Those who lose their lives are they who are not of faith or humility. These are the parameters that measure qualification for life.
But the one thing that all life has in common is reproduction. In our Christian world, this is called bearing fruit. It is when the life in us is given or shared. The fig tree that was cursed bore no fruit whatsoever. The one who buried his talent represents an outright refusal to bear any fruit whatsoever. It is an opposition to the command and to the agenda of life. That is an extreme. There are those who bear less fruit than others. That is their problem. But they are still brothers and sisters in Christ. This is not the equivalent to opposing the agenda or refusing to bear 'any' fruit. Far be it from you or I to imply otherwise.
There has been much talk of warnings on this site. However, since when has this motivated excellence? Never. We are called to build one another up, to love, to edify. We are called to stir up love and good works. There is no calling to scare anyone into living a fruitful life. The first part of the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, and peace. These are our motivators to treat others with patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. This is fruit. These will gain reward. They are motivated and inspired by God's love, joy, and peace, not His anger, nor His wrath.
There are those who think that threats and warnings can cause one to bear fruit. No, what they are ministers of, is death. The law ministers death and condemnation, as Paul told the Corinthians. So when people come here threatening others with death and condemnation, this smells a lot like the law to me.
Hey, if we want to fix the fruit or sin problem, then we might be well advised to use the prescribed method that bears the proven results.
williemac said:
between the 2 extremes as you say is the bearing of bad fruit...good intentions notwithstanding.
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Jesus will spew many into outer darkness because the were lawless. They had a belief (which they thought saved them) but no fruit of a genuine nature.
They have good AND bad fruit. The good fruit comes from Christ within them. GOD does not reward people for bad fruit, but neither does he discard people in Christ because they are not perfect.Episkopos said:
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Everything with God is at 100%.
"You will find Me when you seek for Me with 89% of your heart?"
Of course not!
So if we never ding the bell at 100% then everything we build with is imperfect. So Jesus can truly say...I never knew you!
What you are implying is preposterous and the fruit of an idolatry of imagined obedience.Episkopos said:
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It is precisely idolatry and other iniquities that stops one from an entire obedience!
What disobedience did Abraham do when he sacrificed his only son Isaac? Was it idolatry to obey God.
There is no such thing as a sliding scale of obedience. You either hit the mark or you don't. No one hits the mark all of the time, including you. According to your logic then, since you are not performing at 100% GOD does not know you and will discard you. That's preposterous. Abraham wasn't perfect, yet he is the father of our faith.Episkopos said:
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
God knows you if you hit the mark even once! That is the point.
And those who have believed into Christ have hit the mark, whether they live up to your expectations and vague rules of obedience, or not.Episkopos said:
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I don't think you understand what the bible means by ALL. This is a condition that has spread through great delusion. People don't know what up and down is...anymore.
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Think all you want...an experience that is real also goes along with the bible. So if you don't understand all then how can you understand the cross and the Lord who gave all...ALL!
Look up the word..
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
You are hanging on to..not enough...when discarding ALL
Falling short means NOT ALL was given.
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
So what is wrong with all? Just that Jesus demands all from you? Is that it?
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