The Repentant Woman, Mary of Bethany, and Mary Magdalene: One Figure?

[Grailhunter]

you explicitly acknowledged only two anointing events: Luke 7 and John 12, saying “two different reasons… two different places… two different groups of people… two different conversations.”

That is why I did post 111 to cover all bases.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is when you suddenly invented a third narrative distinct anointing using John 11:2

You do not invent scripture....it was there all along we just had not discussed it.

 

[Grailhunter]

That timestamp comes from John 12, which narratively occurs after John 11 — not before it. So you are borrowing the timeline of John 12 to support an anointing you claim happened both "when Lazarus was sick/died" and "before Lazarus was sick." That is one of your many contradictions.

I am not borrowing anything. Just discussing the scriptures. There is not enough information to establish a timeline.....just a loose sequence of events.

 

[Grailhunter]

But John 11:2 does not identify Mary Magdalene, does not give a location, does not give a timeline, and does not narrate an event. You are supplying details the text does not contain

No I am supplying details just copy and paste scripture and in fact pointing out that there are no details.

John 11:1 Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair.) 3 So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Lord, the one you love is sick.”
This scripture said who it is.....and I have already answered this.

If you are asking which Mary the scriptures limit to Mary and Martha...so in this case it is this Mary.

 

[Moonwood]

You never asked.

My opening post was about the only two anointings using hair in the entire Gospel: Luke 7 and John 12, and I quoted John 11:2. That alone was enough to prompt you to “correct me” if you believed there were actually three anointings and that John 11:2 was one of them. You never did.

Instead, you explicitly acknowledged only two anointing events — Luke 7 and John 12 — saying “two different reasons… two different places… two different groups of people… two different conversations.”

That remained your position until I asked you to consider what John expects the reader to already know from John 11:2:

“It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill,”

This is a reference to a past anointing that occurs narratively before the one in John 12.

So I asked the obvious questions:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

After denying that John 11:2 referred to a specific anointing event and insisting it was “just another anointing by Mary of Bethany" with "no details given," you then turned John 11:2 itself into a third, distinct narrative anointing — complete with details you had previously argued the verse does not contain.

And now you’re contradicting yourself again:

“John does not tell us what event or the details. There is no real timeline here.”

But then you also say:

“You have a timestamp where the scriptures say that Yeshua was anointed by Mary 6 days before Passover.”

That timestamp comes from John 12, which narratively occurs after John 11 — not before it. So you are borrowing the timeline of John 12 to support an anointing you claim happened both "when Lazarus was sick/died" and "before Lazarus was sick." That is another one of your many contradictions (see post #112).

And then you add:

“This scripture said who it is… and I have already answered this.”

But John 11:2 does not identify Mary Magdalene, does not give a location, does not give a timeline, and does not narrate an event. You are supplying details the text does not contain — and that’s why John 11:2 cannot serve as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And this brings us back to the central issue:

John 11:1 introduces Lazarus as an ill man and his sisters as Mary and Martha.
John 11:2 identifies which Mary is Lazarus's sister by referencing a distinctive past action, not by giving a location or title:

“It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill.”

That only works as an identifier if the audience already knows, or can know, the Gospel event John is referring to.
So it must have been mentioned previously and elsewhere.

So we’re still at the two questions you haven’t answered:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

Either you know what Gospel event he's referring to, or you're left with a position where John uses an identifier that points to nothing — which would mean he didn’t know how to properly specify which Mary in the Gospel Lazarus’s sister is.

 

[Grailhunter]

My opening post was about the only two anointings using hair in the entire Gospel: Luke 7 and John 12, and I quoted John 11:2. That alone was enough to prompt you to “correct me” if you believed there were actually three anointings and that John 11:2 was one of them. You never did.

Correct you?
There are a lot of scriptures to talk about. Once we started to expand that is why I posted 111. Kind of a catch all.

 

[Grailhunter]

After denying that John 11:2 referred to a specific anointing event and insisting it was “just another anointing by Mary of Bethany" with "no details given," you then turned John 11:2 itself into a third, distinct narrative anointing — complete with details you had previously argued the verse does not contain.

No contradiction, just another scripture to discuss.
And John 11:2 does not refer to a specific anointing.
I did not turn anything into details....it says what it says and without much details.
Again stop with the large posts with multiple questions.

 

[Moonwood]

Correct you?
There are a lot of scriptures to talk about. Once we started to expand that is why I posted 111. Kind of a catch all.

Two anointings: Luke 7 and John 12. And John 11:2 isn’t “a lot of scriptures.” If you truly believed there were actually three anointings and that John 11:2 was one of them, you would have said so when I quoted it in my opening post. But, you didn't. Instead, you explicitly acknowledged the only two anointing events — Luke 7 and John 12 — saying “two different reasons… two different places… two different groups of people… two different conversations.”

That remained your position until I asked you to consider what John expects the reader to already know from John 11:2:

“It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill,”

This is a reference to a past anointing that occurs narratively before the one in John 12.

So I asked the obvious questions:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

After denying that John 11:2 referred to a specific anointing event and insisting it was “just another anointing by Mary of Bethany" with "no details given," you then turned John 11:2 itself into a third, distinct narrative anointing — complete with details you had previously argued the verse does not contain.

And now you’re contradicting yourself again:

“John does not tell us what event or the details. There is no real timeline here.”

But then you also say:

“You have a timestamp where the scriptures say that Yeshua was anointed by Mary 6 days before Passover.”

That timestamp comes from John 12, which narratively occurs after John 11 — not before it. So you are borrowing the timeline of John 12 to support an anointing you claim happened both "when Lazarus was sick/died" and "before Lazarus was sick." That is another one of your many contradictions (see post #112).

And then you add:

“This scripture said who it is… and I have already answered this.”

But John 11:2 does not identify Mary Magdalene, does not give a location, does not give a timeline, and does not narrate an event. You are supplying details the text does not contain — and that’s why John 11:2 cannot serve as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And this brings us back to the central issue:

John 11:1 introduces Lazarus as an ill man and his sisters as Mary and Martha.
John 11:2 identifies which Mary is Lazarus's sister by referencing a distinctive past action, not by giving a location or title:

“It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill.”

That only works as an identifier if the audience already knows, or can know, the Gospel event John is referring to.
So it must have been mentioned previously and elsewhere.

So we’re still at the two questions you haven’t answered:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

Either you know what Gospel event he's referring to, or you're left with a position where John uses an identifier that points to nothing — which would mean he didn’t know how to properly specify which Mary in the Gospel Lazarus’s sister is.

 

[Grailhunter]

Two anointings: Luke 7 and John 12. And John 11:2 isn’t “a lot of scriptures.” If you truly believed there were actually three anointings and that John 11:2 was one of them, you would have said so when I quoted it in my opening post. But, you didn't. Instead, you explicitly acknowledged the only two anointing events — Luke 7 and John 12 — saying “two different reasons… two different places… two different groups of people… two different conversations.”

quit whining.
There are more than two anointings, one of the reasons I posted 111. The conversation was expanding.
So lets move on.

 

[Grailhunter]

But John 11:2 does not identify Mary Magdalene, does not give a location, does not give a timeline, and does not narrate an event. You are supplying details the text does not contain — and that’s why John 11:2 cannot serve as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And this brings us back to the central issue:

John 11:1: John describes Lazarus as an ill man and names his sisters to be Mary and Martha
John 11:2: John identifies which Mary is Lazarus’s sister. And he does not identify her by:

• “Mary of ___,”
• “Mary from ___,”
• or any location‑based label.

Instead, he identifies her by referencing a distinctive past action:


That only works if the audience already knows the Gospel event John is referring to.
So it must've been mentioned previously and elsewhere.

So we’re still at the two questions you haven’t answered:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

Either you know what Gospel event he's referring to, or you're left with a position where John uses an identifier that points to nothing — which would mean he didn’t know how to specify which Mary in the Gospel Lazarus’s sister is.

Already answered this.

 

[Moonwood]

quit whining.
There are more than two anointings, one of the reasons I posted 111. The conversation was expanding.
So lets move on.

I quoted Luke 7, John 12, and John 11:2 in the opening post. If you truly always believed there were actually three anointings and that John 11:2 was one of them, you would have said so in the very beginning. But, you didn't.
You didn’t say there were “more than two anointings” until after I asked the two questions you still haven’t answered. Before that, you explicitly acknowledged only two — Luke 7 and John 12 — saying “two different reasons… two different places… two different groups of people… two different conversations.”

You only turned John 11:2 into a third anointing after I asked:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

And when you did that, you supplied details that John 11:2 does not contain — location, timeline, identity, context, and a timestamp borrowed from John 12 — all of which you now deny supplying.

So no, this isn’t “whining.”
It’s pointing out that your position changed only when you were asked to identify the past event John is referring to.

And you still haven’t answered those two questions.

 

[Grailhunter]

You didn’t say there were “more than two anointings” until after I asked the two questions you still haven’t answered.

Until the conversation expanded.
If you are trying to say I did not know about the other anointings? I assure you we covered them all in college, including the muddle of the Marys.

 

[Grailhunter]

And when you did that, you supplied details that John 11:2 does not contain — location, timeline, identity, context, and a timestamp borrowed from John 12 — all of which you now deny supplying.

Again, I am the one that said it did not have details. Just that it is Mary and it happened before Lazarus was sick. This is all we got.....

John 11:1 Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair.) 3 So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Lord, the one you love is sick.”

 

[Moonwood]

Until the conversation expanded.

In the opening post, I quoted the only two anointing events: Luke 7 and John 12. I also quoted John 11:2 in it as well. If you truly always believed there were actually three anointings and that John 11:2 was one of them, you would have addressed that part of my post about all three and said so in the very beginning. But, you didn't. Instead, you explicitly acknowledged the only two anointing events — Luke 7 and John 12 — saying “two different reasons… two different places… two different groups of people… two different conversations.”

That remained your position until I asked you to consider what John expects the reader to already know from John 11:2:

“It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill,”

This is a reference to a past anointing that occurs narratively before the one in John 12.

So I asked the obvious questions:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

After denying that John 11:2 referred to a specific anointing event and insisting it was “just another anointing by Mary of Bethany" with "no details given," you then turned John 11:2 itself into a third, distinct narrative anointing — complete with details you had previously argued the verse does not contain:

• “wasn’t a specific event,”
• was “just another anointment by Mary of Bethany,”
• had “no details given,”
• “doesn’t point anywhere, backwards or forwards,”
• “doesn’t give a timeline for when Mary had anointed Him before,”
• and “only establishes that Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus more than once.

Those statements already contradicted each other, and then you added more:

You said John 11:2:

• “occurred at Lazarus’ home in Bethany,” but also "does not give a location.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not mention any location for the anointing reference in that verse.

You said it:

• “occurred when Lazarus was sick/died,” but also “before Lazarus was sick.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not mention Lazarus being present, dead or alive, for the anointing referenced in that verse.

You said it:

• “is speaking about Mary Magdalene,” even though John only says “Mary.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not specify Mary Magdalene anywhere in John 11 — not in verse 2, not in the chapter, not in the Lazarus narrative.

Since I've shown John does not mention the location of the anointing, those present, nor identify which Mary she is, it cannot stand as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And now you’re contradicting yourself again:

“John does not tell us what event or the details. There is no real timeline here.”

But then you also say:

“You have a timestamp where the scriptures say that Yeshua was anointed by Mary 6 days before Passover.”

That timestamp comes from John 12, which narratively occurs after John 11 — not before it. So you are borrowing the timeline of John 12 to support an anointing you claim happened both "when Lazarus was sick/died" and "before Lazarus was sick." That is another one of your many contradictions (see post #112).

And then you add:

“This scripture said who it is… and I have already answered this.”

But John 11:2 does not identify Mary Magdalene, does not give a location, does not give a timeline, and does not narrate an event. You are supplying details the text does not contain — and that’s why John 11:2 cannot serve as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And this brings us back to the central issue:

John 11:1 introduces Lazarus as an ill man and his sisters as Mary and Martha.
John 11:2 identifies which Mary is Lazarus's sister by referencing a distinctive past action, not by giving a location or title:

“It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill.”

That only works as an identifier if the audience already knows, or can know, the Gospel event John is referring to.
So it must have been mentioned previously and elsewhere.

So we’re still at the two questions you haven’t answered:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

Either you know which Gospel event he's referring to, or you're left with a position where John uses an identifier that points to nothing — which would mean he didn’t know how to properly specify which Mary in the Gospel Lazarus’s sister is.

 

[Grailhunter]

In the opening post, I quoted the only two anointing events: Luke 7 and John 12. I also quoted John 11:2 in it as well. If you truly always believed there were actually three anointings and that John 11:2 was one of them, you would have said so in the very beginning. But, you didn't. Instead, you explicitly acknowledged the only two anointing events — Luke 7 and John 12 — saying “two different reasons… two different places… two different groups of people… two different conversations.”

That remained your position until I asked you to consider what John expects the reader to already know from John 11:2:



This is a reference to a past anointing that occurs narratively before the one in John 12.

So I asked the obvious questions:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

After denying that John 11:2 referred to a specific anointing event and insisting it was “just another anointing by Mary of Bethany" with "no details given," you then turned John 11:2 itself into a third, distinct narrative anointing — complete with details you had previously argued the verse does not contain:

• “wasn’t a specific event,”
• was “just another anointment by Mary of Bethany,”
• had “no details given,”
• “doesn’t point anywhere, backwards or forwards,”
• “doesn’t give a timeline for when Mary had anointed Him before,”
• and “only establishes that Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus more than once.

Those statements already contradicted each other, and then you added more:

You said John 11:2:

• “occurred at Lazarus’ home in Bethany,” but also "does not give a location.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not mention any location for the anointing reference in that verse.

You said it:

• “occurred when Lazarus was sick/died,” but also “before Lazarus was sick.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not mention Lazarus being present, dead or alive, for the anointing referenced in that verse.

You said it:

• “is speaking about Mary Magdalene,” even though John only says “Mary.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not specify Mary Magdalene anywhere in John 11 — not in verse 2, not in the chapter, not in the Lazarus narrative.

Since I've shown John does not mention the location of the anointing, those present, nor identify which Mary she is, it cannot stand as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And now you’re contradicting yourself again:



But then you also say:



That timestamp comes from John 12, which narratively occurs after John 11 — not before it. So you are borrowing the timeline of John 12 to support an anointing you claim happened both "when Lazarus was sick/died" and "before Lazarus was sick." That is another one of your many contradictions (see post #112).

And then you add:



But John 11:2 does not identify Mary Magdalene, does not give a location, does not give a timeline, and does not narrate an event. You are supplying details the text does not contain — and that’s why John 11:2 cannot serve as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And this brings us back to the central issue:

John 11:1: John describes Lazarus as an ill man and names his sisters to be Mary and Martha
John 11:2: John identifies which Mary is Lazarus’s sister. And he does not identify her by:

• “Mary of ___,”
• “Mary from ___,”
• or any location‑based label.

Instead, he identifies her by referencing a distinctive past action:



That only works if the audience already knows the Gospel event John is referring to.
So it must've been mentioned previously and elsewhere.

So we’re still at the two questions you haven’t answered:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

Either you know which Gospel event he's referring to, or you're left with a position where John uses an identifier that points to nothing — which would mean he didn’t know how to specify which Mary in the Gospel Lazarus’s sister is.

I am not going to answer this until you break it down to smaller posts.
And quit whining.

 

[Moonwood]

I am not going to answer this until you break it down to smaller posts.

The only part you still need to answer are what is bolded red below — what precedes that portion are reasons why:

In the opening post, I quoted the only two anointing events: Luke 7 and John 12. I also quoted John 11:2 in it as well. If you truly always believed there were actually three anointings and that John 11:2 was one of them, you would have addressed that part of my post about all three and said so in the very beginning. But, you didn't. Instead, you explicitly acknowledged the only two anointing events — Luke 7 and John 12 — saying “two different reasons… two different places… two different groups of people… two different conversations.”

That remained your position until I asked you to consider what John expects the reader to already know from John 11:2:

“It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill,”

This is a reference to a past anointing that occurs narratively before the one in John 12.

So I asked the obvious questions:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

After denying that John 11:2 referred to a specific anointing event and insisting it was “just another anointing by Mary of Bethany" with "no details given," you then turned John 11:2 itself into a third, distinct narrative anointing — complete with details you had previously argued the verse does not contain:

• “wasn’t a specific event,”
• was “just another anointment by Mary of Bethany,”
• had “no details given,”
• “doesn’t point anywhere, backwards or forwards,”
• “doesn’t give a timeline for when Mary had anointed Him before,”
• and “only establishes that Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus more than once.

Those statements already contradicted each other, and then you added more:

You said John 11:2:

• “occurred at Lazarus’ home in Bethany,” but also "does not give a location.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not mention any location for the anointing reference in that verse.

You said it:

• “occurred when Lazarus was sick/died,” but also “before Lazarus was sick.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not mention Lazarus being present, dead or alive, for the anointing referenced in that verse.

You said it:

• “is speaking about Mary Magdalene,” even though John only says “Mary.”

Those statements contradict each other, and John does not specify Mary Magdalene anywhere in John 11 — not in verse 2, not in the chapter, not in the Lazarus narrative.

Since I've shown John does not mention the location of the anointing, those present, nor identify which Mary she is, it cannot stand as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And now you’re contradicting yourself again:

“John does not tell us what event or the details. There is no real timeline here.”

But then you also say:

“You have a timestamp where the scriptures say that Yeshua was anointed by Mary 6 days before Passover.”

That timestamp comes from John 12, which narratively occurs after John 11 — not before it. So you are borrowing the timeline of John 12 to support an anointing you claim happened both "when Lazarus was sick/died" and "before Lazarus was sick." That is another one of your many contradictions (see post #112).

And then you add:

“This scripture said who it is… and I have already answered this.”

But John 11:2 does not identify Mary Magdalene, does not give a location, does not give a timeline, and does not narrate an event. You are supplying details the text does not contain — and that’s why John 11:2 cannot serve as a narrative third distinct anointing.

And this brings us back to the central issue:

John 11:1 introduces Lazarus as an ill man and his sisters as Mary and Martha.
John 11:2 identifies which Mary is Lazarus's sister by referencing a distinctive past action, not by giving a location or title:

“It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill.”

That only works as an identifier if the audience already knows, or can know, the Gospel event John is referring to.
So it must have been mentioned previously and elsewhere.

So we’re still at the two questions you haven’t answered regarding John 11:2:

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?
And which Gospel event is John referring to?

Either you know which Gospel event he's referring to, or you're left with a position where John uses an identifier that points to nothing — which would mean he didn’t know how to properly specify which Mary in the Gospel Lazarus’s sister is.

 

[Grailhunter]

Which specific Mary performed that past hair‑wiping event?

So I think I answered this three times, the scripture says who it is....
John 11:1 Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair.) 3 So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Lord, the one you love is sick.”

The scripture is talking about Lazarus' sisters, Mary and Martha.....at Lazarus' house in Bethany. So it is Mary of Bethany which I think is Mary Magdaline.

 

[Moonwood]

So I think I answered this three times, the scripture says who it is....
John 11:1 Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair.) 3 So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Lord, the one you love is sick.”

Both John 11:1 and 11:2 say “Mary,” not “Mary Magdalene.”
And you still haven’t answered the other question:
Which Gospel event is John referring to in John 11:2?

 

[Grailhunter]

Which Gospel event is John referring to in John 11:2?

And I told you in post 127, it does not refer to anything else, just before.

 

[Grailhunter]

Both John 11:1 and 11:2 say “Mary,” not “Mary Magdalene.”

Yes, Mary of Bethany, Lazarus' and Martha sister. And I have told you that I believe Mary of Bethany is Mary Magdalene even though no scripture specifically says that.