The Resurrection is Bodily

[Hobie]

Here is a great explanation and well put together understanding of this issue....

"Traditionally most people believe that there is a ghost-like “spirit” inside of our bodies, and when we die, this spirit floats away somewhere, preferably heaven.

I will show that the Bible actually does not support this theory. In fact, according to the Bible there is no spirit inside of us at all. We exist only as mortal bodies, made from dust having been given the breath of life. And it is this “breath of life” that is confused with, or interpreted as, a “spirit”.


What Happens When We Die

Scripture says it plainly.

Genesis 3:19

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

Job 7:21

Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10:12

But man dies and lies prostrate man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 115:17

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4

When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. Their plans perish and they cease to exist. Ecclesiastes 3 even tells us that man has no advantage over the beasts. All go to one place, which is dust."


Will have to break it up to fit.....

 

[Hobie]

"When Lazarus died, Jesus said he was sleeping.

John 11:11-14

After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.” 12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. 14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead


Why would Jesus compare Lazarus’ death to “sleep” if Lazarus’ spirit has ascended into heaven? And why was there no mention of his spirit leaving his body?

Matthew 9:24

He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Daniel 12:2

Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Daniel was told he would “rest” until the resurrection.

Daniel 12:13

As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

If Daniel’s spirit was to go to heaven after death, then why was he told that he would rest? Why did the angel not say instead, I’ll see you in heaven soon, or something to that effect? It’s because Daniel wasn’t going to heaven. He was going to the dust of the earth. Daniel is now dead. He is not in heaven. He’s dead in the dust of the earth and on the day of the resurrection, he will rise, along with the rest of us.


What Happens When we are Resurrected

The resurrection, as Paul describes it, actually also proves that we have no spirit in us that goes to heaven when we die.

Imagine if we did have a spirit. We would fly up to heaven and we would do whatever we do in heaven. Praise the Lord, play Frisbee, eat BBQ chicken. No matter how you envision an existence in heaven, it would require at the very least that we have a consciousness, a thought process and a free will to continue to make decisions. All of this would contradict the old testament verses above.


It would also contradict the new testament book of 1 Corinthians, because according to Paul this life in a spiritual body, which we imagine in heaven, does not come to us until the very last day, when we are resurrected.

1 Corinthians 15:42

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:46

The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

Paul clearly states that we are created with a natural body, not a spiritual body. We will be transformed into a spiritual body upon the resurrection. “The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual”. In other words, when God created us, we were not given spiritual bodies, only natural bodies, but we would receive spiritual bodies later, upon the resurrection.

Our bodies are sewn natural, raised spiritual. This is the point of the resurrection, to make us spiritual so that we can be immortal. So if you believe that we already have immortal spirits that leave our bodies when we die, you have a conundrum.


The Spiritual Conundrum

Imagine the traditional teaching, where we have a spirit and we go to heaven as a spirit when we die. Then please tell me, what is the point of the resurrection?

If we are already in heaven, as immortal spirits, then why would we need to be transformed into spirits on the last day? If it is so, then when our bodies on earth are transformed into spirits, do we end up with two spirits? The one in heaven and the one on earth? Would both spirits have their own separate consciousness? Do our spirits in heaven then join our old bodies which have been transformed? Would we then be a spirit within a spirit? Two spirits? What nonsense!

If we’re being transformed into spirits, then we can not already be spirits, otherwise what would be the point? The point of the resurrection is to make us immortal. To make us spirits. This would be entirely nonsensical if we are already living as spirits in heaven, and this is how Paul’s description of the resurrection proves that we do not have a spirit inside of us that continues to live after death.....


Further Evidence

Acts 2:29

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day”

Acts 2:34

For David is not ascended into the heavens

John 5:28-29

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth

John 3:13

And no man has ascended up to heaven

 

[rwb]

The definition of soul is spirit.

Actually the definition of soul is body + spirit = living soul. Man's spirit indwelt with the Holy Spirit of Christ is also called a living (spirit) soul after the body dies, and being filled with life through Christ's Spirit, in heaven that man's spirit is called a soul. The way to understand the difference between spirit and soul is to realize that wherever life exists whether through man's body or spirit they are a living soul. A spirit on the other hand after physical death without Christ's Spirit, will return to God in unbelief, knowing only darkness and silence until his/her body is resurrected in an hour coming when the last trump sounds, and they are called to stand before the GWTJ to be judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life.

 

[dev553344]

Actually the definition of soul is body + spirit = living soul. Man's spirit indwelt with the Holy Spirit of Christ is also called a living (spirit) soul after the body dies, and being filled with life through Christ's Spirit, in heaven that man's spirit is called a soul. The way to understand the difference between spirit and soul is to realize that wherever life exists whether through man's body or spirit they are a living soul. A spirit on the other hand after physical death without Christ's Spirit, will return to God in unbelief, knowing only darkness and silence until his/her body is resurrected in an hour coming when the last trump sounds, and they are called to stand before the GWTJ to be judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life.

Well I speak the English language, and if I look at the dictionary then I see that soul means spirit. It's important to know what words mean to speak the language properly and communicate effectively:

Soul:

1. the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

 

[rwb]

If man has immortality, the questions then becomes, why he needs Christ. No, scripture is clear, man does not have immortality, the soul is shown to come to an end, so lets look at that.

Mankind shall not possess immortality until the physical body is resurrected and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. And only then IF that person died in faith believing in Christ for eternal life. If we do not obtain eternal spirit life through the life of Christ before we die, then we shall perish. That's why we need Christ. We receive eternal spirit life when we hear the Gospel and by grace through faith in the power of the Holy Spirit we believe. From that moment the breath of life we have through our spirit shall NEVER die.

 

[rwb]

Here is a great explanation and well put together understanding of this issue....

"Traditionally most people believe that there is a ghost-like “spirit” inside of our bodies, and when we die, this spirit floats away somewhere, preferably heaven.

I will show that the Bible actually does not support this theory. In fact, according to the Bible there is no spirit inside of us at all. We exist only as mortal bodies, made from dust having been given the breath of life. And it is this “breath of life” that is confused with, or interpreted as, a “spirit”.


What Happens When We Die

Scripture says it plainly.

Genesis 3:19

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

Job 7:21

Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10:12

But man dies and lies prostrate man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 115:17

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4

When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. Their plans perish and they cease to exist. Ecclesiastes 3 even tells us that man has no advantage over the beasts. All go to one place, which is dust."


Will have to break it up to fit.....

When you look at Genesis 2 and see how God created man from the dust of the earth (body) breathed into them the breath of life (spirit) that man became a living soul. The spirit is that which gives life to our physical bodies, and a soul is what we become when we possess LIFE. Show proof text from Scripture that shows when man dies his/her spirit, indwelt with the Holy Spirit from Christ also dies with our mortal body! And that the spirit with the Holy Spirit giving life also knows nothing after our mortal body dies!

Like I've already said, you know what happens to man's body after death, they become a corpse. That is altogether without life! Is that also true of the spirit in man that gave the breath of life to the body, when that man has been born again and has the Holy Spirit in them?

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[rwb]

Why would Jesus compare Lazarus’ death to “sleep” if Lazarus’ spirit has ascended into heaven? And why was there no mention of his spirit leaving his body?

How could the spirit of Lazarus ascend to heaven with life before Christ atoned for sin, and defeated death by His cross and resurrection? If Lazarus' spirit ascended to heaven at the moment his body died, then it would have been in silence and darkness until Christ called him back from death to life and his spirit that gave his body life would have returned to him from heaven.

John 3:12-15 (KJV) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[rwb]

Well I speak the English language, and if I look at the dictionary then I see that soul means spirit. It's important to know what words mean to speak the language properly and communicate effectively:

Soul:

1. the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

Yes, I'm not disagreeing with you. Soul is identified by the spirit alive in mankind. And soul is identified as the whole human with body + spirit = living soul. As long as the body lives we are living souls. Where life is found, whether of our body or our spirit through the Spirit of Christ in us, we are living souls.

The soul is only immortal where life is present. When our body dies in unbelief, our spirit returns to God in silence and darkness, or altogether without life, and instead of a soul the unbeliever becomes a corpse. That human will not again become a living soul until an hour coming when the last trump sounds and all the bodies in the graves shall be resurrected either for life or damnation.

 

[Hobie]

Mankind shall not possess immortality until the physical body is resurrected and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. And only then IF that person died in faith believing in Christ for eternal life. If we do not obtain eternal spirit life through the life of Christ before we die, then we shall perish. That's why we need Christ. We receive eternal spirit life when we hear the Gospel and by grace through faith in the power of the Holy Spirit we believe. From that moment the breath of life we have through our spirit shall NEVER die.

And this will happen at Christs Second Coming, the faithful who have died believing in Christ will have a bodily resurrection and go to Heaven with Him. This is the Good News, that those who believe have the hope of eternal life because they place their trust in the Christ, who will come again to take us home to His kingdom in heaven.

 

[Hobie]

When you look at Genesis 2 and see how God created man from the dust of the earth (body) breathed into them the breath of life (spirit) that man became a living soul. The spirit is that which gives life to our physical bodies, and a soul is what we become when we possess LIFE. Show proof text from Scripture that shows when man dies his/her spirit, indwelt with the Holy Spirit from Christ also dies with our mortal body! And that the spirit with the Holy Spirit giving life also knows nothing after our mortal body dies!

Like I've already said, you know what happens to man's body after death, they become a corpse. That is altogether without life! Is that also true of the spirit in man that gave the breath of life to the body, when that man has been born again and has the Holy Spirit in them?

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Only when Christ gives you life and this is why He lays claim to the resurrection and the life, as man does not have it of himself, and we see this in the raising of Lazarus. Jesus waits until Lazarus has been dead for four days, so there is absolutely no question that he is dead, and then raises him bodily. There was then no doubt that Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life and this is what the saints will receive at the Second Coming, the dead in Christ resurrected and join the living saints meet the Lord in the clouds.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17​

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.