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Featured The Resurrection

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by n2thelight, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Figurative language. No problem.
    Whichever way, if you take it literally fact remains "souls' are visible, tangible, "seen", "slain" physically; "souls" that "testify" for the "testimony they held" the Gospel of Christ while alive 'saints' or "souls" or 'believers', name them what you want -- they are walking talking breathing heart-beating men and women children of Adam and Eve saved by the 'blood', of the 'Lamb' the Man God with us Jesus Christ WHO NOW figuratively SIT ON THRONES REIGNING WITH CHRIST ON HIS THRONE ... language for the real and alive God with us in Christ "COME IN THE FLESH" from the dead the Lord Who now Reigns and forever.
     
  2. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying they not there?
     
  3. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Why ask while you tell me what I according to yourself am saying?
     
  4. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Jesus speaks of the dead that have a body but not the living soul and the last day could be the day Jesus was crucified.
    Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
    Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
    Jesus told the thief that was on another cross Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
    Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    Dead spiritually, not physically.
    Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
     
  5. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    The day God shall raise the dead not one will think he is dreaming, sleeping.
     
  6. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    The dead are already raised.How else does He bring them with Him when He returns?

    We in the flesh are of the earth,ie,dirt.That dirt will not come back together
     
  7. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

    Let's do this step by step,starting with the fundamental of reading.Whats the subject in the above?Is it not those who are asleep(died)?

    This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

    I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

    If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

    It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

    Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.
     
  8. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Re: <<We in the flesh are of the earth,ie,dirt.>>
    Jesus certainly did not think that of those His Own for whom He died and rose again from the <dirt>.

    Re: <<That dirt will not come back together>>.
    Jesus Christ certainly did not say that of any His Own or others.

    So,
    Re: <<The dead are already raised.How else does He bring them with Him when He returns?>>

    Jesus Christ said, the dead -- all the dead -- SHALL be raised. And He said He will "bring them together with" Him when He returns. What don't you understand?
     
  9. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    The above is your problem,He did not say bring them together He said bring with Him

    I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

    These are those under the alter,try again.

    Just curious ,why would you even want this dirt?

    So, now let's go this way

    We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed

    I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

    Paul is now going to show us a mystery that deals with our generation, for a mystery is something that cannot be understood. However, when the details and clues of the mystery are know, then it is no longer a mystery. This mystery deals with a time when something is going to happen all over the earth to all flesh bodies, when these flesh bodies are not die anymore. Why will this be? Because all people living in their flesh bodies will be changed instantly from their flesh bodies, into their new incorruptible bodies. We have already established that each of us have two bodies, one is of the flesh, and the other body is a spiritual body that is within our flesh body. The spiritual body is not made alive or freed from the flesh body until the flesh body is done away with.

    Did not Paul say in this same chapter that we have 2 bodies?

    I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

    You are the some men,and here is what Paul calls you

    I Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:"

    It is important to understand the word "quickened", Remember in verse 22 Paul stated; "in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive." This Greek word for "quickened" is the same Greek word for the "coming alive". It means that all, sinners and saints are made alive through Christ. It doesn't mean that the soul is raised to eternal life, for the soul is not the subject here, but the question is what happens to the physical body?

    Now let's do these bodies

    I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

    There's what?


     
  10. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    You are asking for it...

    14εἰ γὰρ [for if]

    πιστεύομεν [we believe]

    ὅτι Ἰησοῦς [that Jesus]

    ἀπέθανεν καὶ ἀνέστη [died and rose again],

    οὕτως καὶ [SO ALSO (we believe)]

    τοὺς κοιμηθέντας [those having slept / died]

    ὁ Θεὸς διὰ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ [God through Jesus]

    ἄξει σὺν αὐτῷ [will bring together with / in Him]—

    It’s "with” WHAT!—, NOT ‘from’, where! “With” implies from DEATH AND SLEEP “with Him” / “in Him” / “like Him”—, Not <from heaven> or wherever!

    “With” - σύν, is a Preposition of Relation and Association, “with” Jesus, “with” his Death and Resurrection AS IN CONTEXT—, is “concerning them which are ASLEEP”— in DEATH verse 13, “them which are ASLEEP” in the Death, again, in verse 15!

    Colossians 2

    12 Buried with him
    12 συνταφέντες αὐτῷ

    wherein also ye are risen with him
    ἐν ᾧ καὶ συνηγέρθητε

    13 quickened together with him
    13 συνεζωοποίησεν σὺν αὐτῷ

    20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ
    20 Εἰ ἀπεθάνετε σὺν Χριστῷ

    But you tell us “with” indicates direction from wherever ‘above’ or whatever ‘heaven’ might be down to earth? Something σὺν NEVER means!

    It’s not even laughable so feeble and pathetic is the whole notion of all your n.o.n.s.e.n.s.e.!
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  11. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    LIE! The Father was WITH Jesus suffering death dying the death of death as He was WITH Christ RAISING HIM FROM DEATH AND GRAVE AND FOR FORTY DAYS AFTER never leaving His Son for the smallest of nanno-second.
     
  12. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Like I said ,if you don't believe that the dead have already risen,then you deny Christ's resurrection
     
  13. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    I also see you didn't address the two bodies,stay where you at, as ignorance is good for you therefore you won't be judged in it,however you stand the chance of missing the first resurrection .

    Do you as I can't keep dropping pearls,I think we done!!!
     
  14. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Where did I say God left His Son?
     
  15. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Usually, when I am asleep, I have no sense of time, and it seems that I wake up the instant I fall asleep. It usually happens when I have a late night and have to get up in the morning. I put my head on the pillow and the next thing - not "Good morning Lord", but "Good Lord! Morning!" It came around too soon?

    So, from my perspective, I will die, and the next thing I will know is that I will hear the trumpet and voice of the Lord causing me to rise up from the dead to meet Him in the air, according to the Scripture.

    By the way, I have had the interesting experience of falling asleep and dreaming that I was still awake and what was happening was real and logical; but when I woke up I then realised it was a dream! Crazy eh?

    Actually, we are never aware of the instant we fall asleep. We only realise that we had fallen asleep when we wake up either during the night or in the morning. So I have this belief that when I die, I won't realise that I have died until I am resurrected at the voice of Christ.

    I have heard a testimony of a man who was out riding his bike in a road race, and then suddenly waking up in hospital. It appeared that he had a major heart attack, collapsed, fell off his bike, and was carted to hospital in an ambulance. He instantly lost consciousness before he realised he was having a heart attack, and only learned of it when he woke up in the hospital bed. I'll bet he wondered, "How in the heck did I get here? A moment ago I was riding along in the road race!" I think when it is my time to fall off the perch, that is the way I'd like to go. One moment here, the next being called out of my grave by the Lord's voice!

    Hey, it is a lesson for us always to be occupied doing God's will and being ready at all times for either the coming of the Lord or our death.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  16. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Here:
    n2thelight said:
    <<It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father.>> -- which means forty days not back to the Father = not with the Father or the Father not with Him.
    And who says <<God left His Son?>> -- YOU!

    You must stop forcing us to go to school even if we don’t want to… you can bring the donkey to the river, but you can't force the river to ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020 at 3:01 AM
  17. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Not the faintest idea of what you talking about.

    Well whatever I'll drop this and you do what you do

    Mark 12:24 "And Jesus answering said unto them, "Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?"

    Jesus is telling them right to their face that even their questions are in error, because they are biblically illiterate. Jesus is telling them that you don't believe the Scriptures, nor do you believe in the power of God. You don't believe in God because you don't believe in life after death. The Sadducees were probably the most pathetic of all the people that confronted Jesus, for they placed human life on the same level as an animal. They are like many churches today, they like to form their own traditions and wander in their own make believe world.

    Mark 12:25 "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels are in heaven."

    The reason that they will neither marry nor are given in marriage is because marriage in the flesh as we know it today is for the sake of having children, and when you die your soul steps out of their physical body and into their soul [spiritual] body. That soul body is as the angels have, and there are no children born in the angelic dimension for all souls are masculine. An angel is a soul living in a spiritual body, shedding the flesh and stepping into the new dimensional age. That deceased soul would have the same type of bodies that all will have in the Millennium age, after the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Mark 12:26 "And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?' "

    Jesus is saying here, "now lets talk about the dead for a moment." Jesus is reminding these Sadducees that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were all dead, yet God has said, I am the God of these men, and if God were the God of these men at Moses time, than each of these three men would still have to be alive. To be a God over anybody they would have to be alive to have a God over them. The meaning to this is that nobody is dead yet, not even Satan and his evil spirits, and fallen angels. Sure Satan was condemned to death in the first earth age, however that sentence will not be carried out until after the Millennium age, and the great white throne judgment. Jesus is telling these men that they don't know what they are even talking about.

    Mark 12:27 "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err."

    Any one that teaches that there loved one is out there in a hole in the ground, waiting for a rapture is just as these Sadducees, greatly in err. That is what the heathen believe and it is called "soul sleep". The other piece of traditional trash that is taught today, is that some day they will join back to their dead and decayed flesh body. Wake up pal, when the flesh body is dead it is gone forever, and it will have no more of value than a hand full of dirt.
     
  18. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Sure you have <<Not the faintest idea of what you talking about>> or I. Bye bye

    You must stop forcing us to go to school even if we don’t want to… you can bring the donkey to the river, but you can't force the river to ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020 at 3:02 AM
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