The Righteousness of God

[Enoch111]

No. In fact, if I was trusting Him and following Him, I would not dare act unrighteously and then say about it, oh well, despite acting unrighteously, I am nevertheless righteous.

You seem to be confused about positional righteousness (which is in Christ) and practical righteousness (which is your day-to-day righteousness in word and deed). Unless you claim to be sinlessly perfect (which is claimed by some deluded people), you will sin from time to time (either sins of omission or sins of commission). That will not change your positional righteousness, but it will mean that you have to examine yourself and deal with your present sins. See the first epistle of John.

Every believer has the imputed righteousness of God and Christ, which is by grace through faith. But that is not a license to sin, but rather an incentive to be holy as God is holy. Nonetheless you will not be totally free from sinning, because the old Adamic sin nature has not been eradicated. See Galatians 5.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You seem to be confused about positional righteousness (which is in Christ) and practical righteousness (which is your day-to-day righteousness in word and deed). Unless you claim to be sinlessly perfect (which is claimed by some deluded people), you will sin from time to time (either sins of omission or sins of commission). That will not change your positional righteousness, but it will mean that you have to examine yourself and deal with your present sins. See the first epistle of John.

Every believer has the imputed righteousness of God and Christ, which is by grace through faith. But that is not a license to sin, but rather an incentive to be holy as God is holy. Nonetheless you will not be totally free from sinning, because the old Adamic sin nature has not been eradicated. See Galatians 5.

See, I have a problem with an attitude that I will always sin. It's (to me) defeatist. I think the goal should be to abide in Him more and more and thereby not sin. This doesn't mean I drive myself nuts if I stumble in trust/stop abiding. I get up and start trusting again, looking ahead, not backwards. But I don't start running again with the thought in my mind that I absolutely will stumble again - the thought in my mind is to remain in trust so I WON'T stumble again.

 

[Enoch111]

See, I have a problem with an attitude that I will always sin. It's (to me) defeatist.

And that is perfectly fine. You can honestly tell yourself "I do not have to sin, and neither Satan, nor evil spirits, nor demons, nor evildoers can compel me to do so". Even better, focus on thinking, saying, and doing what is right, and everything else will fall into place.

PSALM 1
1 Blessed is the man that [1] walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, [2] nor standeth in the way of sinners, [3] nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And that is perfectly fine. You can honestly tell yourself "I do not have to sin, and neither Satan, nor evil spirits, nor demons, nor evildoers can compel me to do so". Even better, focus on thinking, saying, and doing what is right, and everything else will fall into place.

PSALM 1
1 Blessed is the man that [1] walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, [2] nor standeth in the way of sinners, [3] nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Oh gosh no! Focusing on doing, thinking and saying what was right got me nowhere! The harder I tried the worse I got! No, that was a massive years long fail for me.

 

[Enoch111]

Oh gosh no! Focusing on doing, thinking and saying what was right got me nowhere! The harder I tried the worse I got! No, that was a massive years long fail for me.

In that case consider yourself an exception and focus on evil.

 

[Episkopos]

You seem to be confused about positional righteousness (which is in Christ) and practical righteousness (which is your day-to-day righteousness in word and deed). Unless you claim to be sinlessly perfect (which is claimed by some deluded people), you will sin from time to time (either sins of omission or sins of commission). That will not change your positional righteousness, but it will mean that you have to examine yourself and deal with your present sins. See the first epistle of John.

Every believer has the imputed righteousness of God and Christ, which is by grace through faith. But that is not a license to sin, but rather an incentive to be holy as God is holy. Nonetheless you will not be totally free from sinning, because the old Adamic sin nature has not been eradicated. See Galatians 5.

This is what is taught to fill the pews...but it is a half-truth. The righteousness of God is not automatic on believers. A believer must believe into that position. IOW God has to approve of the sacrifice.

The false imputed doctrine makes righteousness optional...and holiness impossible.

The righteousness of God is in holiness ONLY. You can't be sinfully holy. It is rather to be holy as God is holy. It is God's not man's to play around with. People walk around justifying themselves and CLAIMING to have the righteousness of God...which is pure fantasy. There is this gift to seek...but if people already think they have it...they won't seek for it. So reasons the enemy of our souls. And he is right...it works. Nobody seeks the Lord anymore for HIS power, grace, and righteousness.

No wonder the modern church has no witness and no power...with doctrines such as these.

No fear of the Lord or respect for His holiness. Just name it and claim it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In that case consider yourself an exception and focus on evil.

I would rather consider it as my foolish Galatians phase, where I tried very hard to finish in the flesh what was begun by the Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

When will we take seriously what Jesus said? Is He not the Master, the Lord? Yet we ignore Him as if He had no real authority in our lives way too often. it is VERY hard for a rich person to enter into the kingdom...and that's why there is little to no witness of the kingdom realm in Western churches.

We are rich Westerners. As such we are used to privilege and having the best of things in this world. But the kingdom of God is upside down. The chances of us having any kind of honour in the next age...as spoiled rich Westerners...is very slight indeed. Will we take that into consideration in thought and repentance? No. Not a chance...we like our privileges and we expect an easy judgment from God...because we are rich and Western. So we make easy doctrines for ourselves instead...or better yet, we adopt what is popular and easy. We shop around for the best deal for rich people. We want first class or we won't travel.

Will God oblige our fantasies and our aspirations? No.

 

[Pearl]

Oh gosh no! Focusing on doing, thinking and saying what was right got me nowhere! The harder I tried the worse I got! No, that was a massive years long fail for me.

I have discovered that focusing on my faults and failures can take me away from God. I know I have them, God knows the good, the bad and the ugly, He knows all my faults and weaknesses but if I start beating myself up about them instead of letting him deal with me I find myself in a not very nice place. So when I identify a fault or failing in myself I have learned to confess it, ask for help in correcting it and move on without dwelling on it. Too many people beat themselves up whenever they get it wrong and I don't think it helps.

 

[Enoch111]

The righteousness of God is not automatic on believers.

Should we believe your lies or God's truth?

ROMANS 4 & 5
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

 

[Episkopos]

I have discovered that focusing on my faults and failures can take me away from God. I know I have them, God knows the good, the bad and the ugly, He knows all my faults and weaknesses but if I start beating myself up about them instead of letting him deal with me I find myself in a not very nice place. So when I identify a fault or failing in myself I have learned to confess it, ask for help in correcting it and move on without dwelling on it. Too many people beat themselves up whenever they get it wrong and I don't think it helps.

The humble thing is to accept who we are...we are not so great..we are not God's gift to mankind. We are not even on the same level as the early believers. We are rich and distracted. Better to be humble and acknowledge our true condition before God. We are poor, naked wretched and blind...spiritually speaking. Of course the opposite is true in our temporal lives. Hence the difficulty in seeing our true spiritual condition before God. We can't fathom it. Can we become humble and teachable by His Spirit? Pretty steep hill to climb.

 

[Enoch111]

I would rather consider it as my foolish Galatians phase, where I tried very hard to finish in the flesh what was begun by the Spirit.

Well if you make the wrong choices, you have only yourself to blame. That does not change Bible truth.

 

[Episkopos]

ROMANS 4 & 5
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I will attempt to correct your errors although they be many.

In the above verses Abraham is deemed righteous by God. But you are adding in a fiction that this means that Abraham is receiving the righteousness OF God. You are letting those little words obscure any semblance of scale or truth.

God deemed Abraham righteous...as a man is righteous.....not as God is righteous. The same goes for Phinehas. He was also deemed righteous for killing 2 people. God rewarded him because his righteousness coincided with God's righteousness.

You won't understand this but I tell you...that it is the righteousness of God that deemed Abraham as righteous. A higher righteousness recognizing a lower righteousness.

When Peter said to Ananias and Sapphira that they would drop dead...THAT was by the righteousness of God. God slew them...unlike Phinehas who did the killing personally. Peter was acting by the Spirit. Phinehas was acting by the power of the flesh. Can you see the distinction between these?

I've explained all this before...but you have a loop going in your head from human indoctrination.

You cited this too...

Rom. 5:1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We have access...not already have. We need to seek grace at the throne of grace....by faith. That's what I say all the time...but you won't hear it nor do it. You resist both the word of God and the Spirit.

Try this for reasoning. If you have access to a gym with a keycard don't you still need to go to the place where the gym is?

heb. 4:16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well if you make the wrong choices, you have only yourself to blame. That does not change Bible truth.

Er...whuu...?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I have discovered that focusing on my faults and failures can take me away from God. I know I have them, God knows the good, the bad and the ugly, He knows all my faults and weaknesses but if I start beating myself up about them instead of letting him deal with me I find myself in a not very nice place. So when I identify a fault or failing in myself I have learned to confess it, ask for help in correcting it and move on without dwelling on it. Too many people beat themselves up whenever they get it wrong and I don't think it helps.

I actually understand you on this. Becoming distraught over what I am and trying to fix myself is, in actuality, hurt pride. And its the opposite of trusting Him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I will attempt to correct your errors although they be many.

In the above verses Abraham is deemed righteous by God. But you are adding in a fiction that this means that Abraham is receiving the righteousness OF God. You are letting those little words obscure any semblance of scale or truth.

God deemed Abraham righteous...as a man is righteous.....not as God is righteous. The same goes for Phinehas. He was also deemed righteous for killing 2 people. God rewarded him because his righteousness coincided with God's righteousness.

You won't understand this but I tell you...that it is the righteousness of God that deems Abraham as righteous. A higher righteousness recognizing a lower righteousness.

When Peter said to Ananias and Sapphira that they would drop dead...THAT was by the righteousness of God.

I've explained all this before...but you have a loop going in your head from human indoctrination.

You cited this too...

Rom. 5:1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We have access...not already have. We need to seek grace at the throne of grace....by faith. That's what I say all the time...but you won't do it. You resist both the word of God and the Spirit.

Try this for reasoning. If you have access to a gym with a keycard don't you still need to go to the place where the gym is?

heb. 4:16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

A verse has come to mind...the one that says we were given Jesus for our sins so that we might BECOME the righteousness of God in Him. And it ties into the verses that talk about growing in grace, and the verse that says if these things are yours and are increasing, you do well.

Becoming, growing, increasing.

Not: I am the righteousness of God. Rather: becoming, being conformed, being renewed, increasing.

 

[Episkopos]

A verse has come to mind...the one that says we were given Jesus for our sins so that we might BECOME the righteousness of God in Him. And it ties into the verses that talk about growing in grace, and the verse that says if these things are yours and are increasing, you do well.

Becoming, growing, increasing.

Not: I am the righteousness of God. Rather: becoming, being conformed, being renewed, increasing.

Amen! Our attitude is positive not because we have already attained but as we seek and learn, ask, and knock. It is to trust God and His ways. I will receive from whatever God judges...and I trust in His character. He will judge righteously.

There are they who have entered into the higher righteousness...but these are few and have done so at great cost to themselves.

What I find is disingenuous is the claims of so many (through indoctrination) having everything that Paul says He has attained to...but not seeing that Paul himself claimed to not have fully attained or yet won Christ. A reality check is required on this.

We know Paul was telling the truth. But many who claim so much so easily...not so much.

So we have to leave room to advance into. To see for...to be conformed and renewed into. THEN perhaps God will trust us with more responsibility. With every higher function in the Spirit comes a greater responsibility. But you don't hear about that part of it so much.

<><

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well just...bravo, epi. The only word I could come up with, sorry. Bravo!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But...you will be gnashed at, because you don't speak pleasant and soothing words for a man's fleshy appetites. (The exact part of a man that the man wants to keep and increase.)

 

[Enoch111]

I will attempt to correct your errors although they be many.

Since I have simply quoted Scripture, what you are now doing is trying to correct God to make allowance for your warped theology.

Bottom line: For all your fancy words, you simple do not believe God.