The Road to Life is Norrow?

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Caffus

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I'm sorry...I dont know were this passage is in the Bible..but I know it is there. What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell.
I have struggled with this during my life and the idea of hell and it even for a year or so cuased me to loose my fiath completly.
I still can not understand it, but I have accepted that I must trust that God is all loving with an ever lasting uncondistional love.
He is just.
But hell seems like something no human would be evil enough to subject someone to for any reason.
And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.
 

Episkopos

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i love narrow roads.i fee :D l safer

Good observation! ;)

I'm sorry...I dont know were this passage is in the Bible..but I know it is there. What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell.
I have struggled with this during my life and the idea of hell and it even for a year or so cuased me to loose my fiath completly.
I still can not understand it, but I have accepted that I must trust that God is all loving with an ever lasting uncondistional love.
He is just.
But hell seems like something no human would be evil enough to subject someone to for any reason.
And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.

Most people choose to be their own god and act as if they had created themselves and the universe they live in. A few are humble enough to realize they have a God to please. Most live to please themselves. So God will destroy them.
 

Angelina

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HI Caffus!

What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell.
Matthew 7
[sup]13[/sup] “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [sup]14[/sup] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

This wide road speaks of an undisciplined, unruly life. A road that does not produce Godly character or bearing of any fruit.
In my opinion, this road is one where believers are just doing their own thing and have not grown from the point of when they were first saved.

Following Jesus means that we have to crucify our fleshly desires and worldly ways. The narrow road is not always an easy path. It means that we have to submit our lives to God and not do our own thing. It requires us to be disciplined. Something that many of us would rather just bypass in our walk but we truly need to allow God to change us internally. Jesus has sent us the Holy Spirit to help us through our struggles.
The bible says that God disciplines us for our good Hebrews 12:10 and he always discipline those whom he loves. Revelation 3:19-20

Hebrews 12
[sup]7[/sup] Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? [sup]8[/sup] If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. [sup]9[/sup] Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!

The first step walking the narrow road is making the decision to submit your life to God and allow him to discipline you in your walk...he does the rest as you follow and submit to him. :)

Blessings!
 

ttruscott

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I'm sorry...I dont know were this passage is in the Bible..but I know it is there. What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell. I have struggled with this during my life and the idea of hell and it even for a year or so cuased me to loose my fiath completly.

I understand as this very issue took me away from the church for many years. When I started to read the Bible again and pray for repentence and faith, I came across a version of Christianity, rather unorthodox, which resloved all of these issues I ever had. I feel that this theology, called Pre-Conception Existence, was a very direct answer to prayer.

I still can not understand it, but I have accepted that I must trust that God is all loving with an ever lasting uncondistional love. He is just. But hell seems like something no human would be evil enough to subject someone to for any reason.

Hell is the prison for the worst unrepentant reprobate demonic devilish criminals in all of creation. When they chose to reject Jehovah's description of reality, they knew what HE claimed would be the consequence though they didn't know HE was divine. They really did choose to take the chance he was not divine and chose wrong.

And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.

Our free will choices led some of us to accept GOD's purpose in our creation but then to reject HIS damnation of those HE called HIS eternal enemies, becoming sinful ourselves and liable to damnation ourselves. Therefore the judgment day was postponed and we came to live here on earth to be redeemed from our sin and sanctified to perfect holiness. It was these sinful but elect sinners Jesus sat with and ate with but it was the demonic sinners that HE accosted and hated.

In short.... :)

Oh, and about the narrow road, yes, it means few sinful elect live here on earth at any one time...more non-elect sinners live here on earth than elect by a long shot. But in relation to the whole number of damned in relation to the whole number of faithful elect and saved elect, the damned are very very few indeed.

Peace, Ted
 

Rach1370

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I'm sorry...I dont know were this passage is in the Bible..but I know it is there. What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell.
I have struggled with this during my life and the idea of hell and it even for a year or so cuased me to loose my fiath completly.
I still can not understand it, but I have accepted that I must trust that God is all loving with an ever lasting uncondistional love.
He is just.
But hell seems like something no human would be evil enough to subject someone to for any reason.
And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.

Too many people try and judge God by human standards...God is not human! And as much as we can study His attributes that are revealed to us, we will never full understand Him. But I think it's important to understand that while God is fully loving, He is also fully just. When we really understand that, it helps a little with the notion of hell.
Let me put it another way. We struggle to comprehend just how heinous sin is against a holy God. Sin is so bad, our rebellion so complete, that it took a huge act to make a people like us righteous. It took the death of Jesus....that's an almost incomprehensible price...the death of God Himself in our place!! But in that we see just what it took to 'make us right' again. So it's a sign of God's justice, but it's also a sign of His love! It took that much to redeem us, but He loves us so much, He took that price from us and put it on Himself! Now, I think it helps if we look at it a bit like this....God extends that exchange to all, and some take it with thanks and praise, but others reject it. They choose to try and pay 'that price' of sin by themselves. They deny God, from the outright anger against God, to a mild rejection that He even exists. The result is still the same. They remain lost with a cup of wrath sitting before them. Jesus has already taken that wrath from me, and those who place our faith in Him.

It's still hard to think of 'hell', but for all the speculation of it, we just can't know what it will be like. I think all that speculation does is make people angry at God and unsure of His 'love'. This is where trust comes in, I think. We do know Him to be loving and just, so in that we can rest in that what ever happens to unsaved people, will be those things.

I think it's hard for us to comprehend true and complete love and justice. We see it from sinful eyes that can be biased and influenced. Just think about it for a minute. How can God be perfectly loving....fully loving, without also being perfectly wrathful? Good and evil do exist...so if God fully loves...His children for example...how can He see evil happening to them or through them, without Just wrath? To love that evil is to be evil! There must come a point where love leads to wrath...He cannot only be 'love' and feel that 'love' even when evil is in play. He cannot only feel 'love' when people wilfully disobey, murder, cheat, lie and hurt one another. He cannot only feel 'love' when every day we try and be our own gods, doing our best to displace God from His own throne. He is God! He is holy! He cannot be fully loving with also being fully wrathful at our treason.

God will always seek His glory, and as one pastor says, every single person in existence will end up glorifying God and doing His will. Some will be doing it through His grace and mercy, others through His wrath. It may be confusing to us, it may not even seem fair to us, but ultimately, it's not up to us and what we deem fair or not. God is not some all powerful human wizard that still must hold to our moral standards. He is God, He is all, and we must rest in our trust of His judgement, love, goodness, and even His wrath. It will all work out as He wills it, and that will be perfect...
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Welcome Caffus. Angelina is speaking the truth. A lawful, godly life requires discipline. A corollary to Hebrews 12:7 that she listed is:

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 1 Corinthians 11:31-32

The apostle John expanded on the narrow gate mentioned Matthew 7:13:

“Truly, truly I say to you, the one who does not enter through the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up at some other place—that one is a thief and a robber. But the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep. For this one the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. Whenever he sends out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. And they will never follow a stranger, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” Jesus told them this parable, but they did not understand what it was that he was saying to them. Then Jesus said again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All those who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep do not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters through me, he will be saved, and will come in and will go out and will find pasture. The thief comes only so that he can steal and kill and destroy; I have come so that they may have life, and have [it] abundantly. “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand, who is not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf approaching and abandons the sheep and runs away—and the wolf seizes them and scatters [them]— because he is a hired hand and he is not concerned about the sheep. “I am the good shepherd, and I know my [own], and my [own] know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep which are not from this fold. I must bring these also, and they will hear my voice, and they will become one flock—one shepherd. Because of this the Father loves me, because I lay down my life so that I may take possession of it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down voluntarily. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take possession of it again. This commandment I received from my Father.” John 10:1-18

As I read this, entering the narrow gate is following the master's voice through the doorway of the sacrifice of the shepherd who laid down his life for the sheep. A pattern of this is seen in the ancient temple in which the altar of sacrifice was the first thing encountered when entering it. These things speak that there is no entrance into God's presence apart from the sacrifice of our selves, which in this covenant means speaking the truth by acknowledging our sin to God, and trusting in his sacrifice who laid down his life for us. Many people believe that God exists, but try to enter his presence some other way.
 

Caffus

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I geuss I will have to accept that i will never understand it or know what it is truly like or even IF hell exists until I'm with Jesus. I love the verse That says, God is Love and he that abides in Love abides in God and God in him. Uncondistional Love. People often sin and become addicted to things becuase of pain they have in there life. Some poeple have been riased in with false beliefs and becuase of that die with them. God knew who would belive before he created them why create ones for eternal torment. ...and what is the piont of eternal torment for choices made in a short life based on ones life experiances. Why not just destroy them if they are fully evil and redeam, heal the ones willing to accept help ...at anytime after death or before. Jesus, is God and God is love Jesus suffered and his body died but the same day he was in Heaven....he did not go to hell to be tormented for eturnity for anyone.
But I do belive Jesus is the Savoir of the World and He loves everyone.
Cathy
 
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thisistheendtimes

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The Israelite's worship in the desert included a "GATE", so Jesus told them their goal should a "strait GATE". Our worship devotion is a "WALK". Our goal should be to begin our journey with Jesus and the Holy Spirit on the "STREET called STRAIGHT".....

"And the Lord said to him, "Rise and go to the street called Straight" (Acts 9:11).

We are NOT Jews (Galatians 3:28 and 1 Corinthians 9:2). We are IN JESUS and baptized IN JESUS, not MOSES.

Anytime you have trouble locating a verse in scripture, use either biblegateway.com or blueletterbible.com as an online concordance (in the version of your choice, it is best to CROSS reference verses from different versions to get a better understanding).

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=street+called+Straight&t=RSV&sf=5

The Lord made the difference between "gate" and "street" very clear and unmistakable by spelling "strait" and "straight" different.

He also used the appropriate name to show that our devotion is a "WALK".......

Romans 8:4 "who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit".

Ephesians 5:2 "And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God".

John 12:35
"Jesus said to them, "The light is with you for a little longer. Walk while you have the light, lest the darkness overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes".

Use the bible search website now to see the verse that says "strait gate" (I use the RSV, but you can set it for other versions by clicking next to the search bar).

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=they+glorified+the+word+of+God&t=RSV&sf=5

Ezekiel 46:1
"Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days; but on the sabbath day it shall be opened and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

Believers need to get used to the fact that what was said 2,000 years ago was relevant to the people that were alive at the time. The principles that we use for our devotion today should be what WE ourselves HEAR from God Himself when He speaks to each one of us about OUR LIFE.

"MY sheep HEAR my VOICE" (John 10:27)........IF you really want to hear what HE says instead of what MAN says/tells us.....you will be a good student/listener.
 

ttruscott

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I geuss I will have to accept that i will never understand it or know what it is truly like or even IF hell exists until I'm with Jesus. I love the verse That says, God is Love and he that abides in Love abides in God and God in him. Uncondistional Love. People often sin and become addicted to things becuase of pain they have in there life. Some poeple have been riased in with false beliefs and becuase of that die with them. God knew who would belive before he created them why create ones for eternal torment. ...and what is the piont of eternal torment for choices made in a short life based on ones life experiances. Why not just destroy them if they are fully evil and redeam, heal the ones willing to accept help ...at anytime after death or before. Jesus, is God and God is love Jesus suffered and his body died but the same day he was in Heaven....he did not go to hell to be tormented for eturnity for anyone.
But I do belive Jesus is the Savoir of the World and He loves everyone.
Cathy

These questions can be a torment can't they, even when you trust that the GOD who is love has it all under control. Lived there, got the t-shirt, turned it in when I got an answer.

You notice, I didn't say THE answer but I did get an answer that was possible and plausible, which gave me great courage to go against those who claim GOD loved some people so much HE created them just to go to hell. It was obvious to me it was the interpretation of the bible that caused the problem, not what GOD actually did. And if I could refute the interpretation, I know GOD has already considered it and solved the probelm HIS perfect way.

In short (ie, many things are left out, deatils are missing but the agenda shines thru): GOD let us decide what kind of world we wanted to live in, promising full acceptance to those who chose the world with HIM and warning of great suffering to those who chose a world without HIM.

So, as I have been led to understand how these things go together for the True Glory of the GOD WHO IS LOVE:
1. First, the creation of all spirits in HIS image, before the creation of the earth, in a sprit world, such as a part of Sheol
2. the first commandment to love and obey and glorify GOD presented as a true free will decision by each of us, without any predestination or foreknowing until after the decisions were made.
3. splitting us between those who bowed, accepting the free gift of election to heaven, and those who rebelled, who now faced damnation

Thus not only is our free will a completely necessary part of our self chosen destiny, it is mingled strongly with GOD's expression of HIS love for the one's who chose to join HIS church; election, predestination, and the gospel.

Of course this theology that GOD did NOT create people just to go to hell but to have free will in which they could reject him being unwilling to accept HIM as GOD or HIS warnings of hell as real, has little resonance to those who have spent their lives defending the other pov which causes them, rather than to try to prove this very superior doctrine, to try to disprove it.

Well, as GOD wills,

Peace to all, Ted
 

Strat

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Lets face it folks,life is supposed to be hard and difficult so that we will appreciate heaven...a good life here and a good life there just doesn't add up...what was said to the rich man,you had your good things on earth and now you are in torment.I sometimes think that this world and everything in it is just a test of loyalties...take the pain and misery here for awhile or take it there for eternity.
 

Caffus

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Strat,
There are many many non Christians living in extrem pain here and they do not know Christ...A tormented life here and then a eternal torment there...doesnt add up ethier. Also you can be Christian and live a wonderful life here.
Rach you have the same pionts as my brother...but, and I dont know how I can change what I believe....God made us and knows all...he made us human and knows how we think feel and how we are wired. If he is just why would our mistakes be compared to his Holiness and not to our own weak nature that he created us with. Very few people sin thinking...I'm trying to hurt God. Some people can not just change the belifs they were riased with or the belifs life has lead them to.
Cathy
 

williemac

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Greetings. I have a suggestion. Maybe we should look at God's promise to Abraham that his descendants would be as numerable as the stars, and look at John's vision where in witness to that promise, he saw a multitude of so great a number that it could not be numbered.
When Jesus made His statement, it was true at the time. They were not in the new covenant yet, but under law during His time on earth. The way was difficult before the cross. But He came to change all that.

I propose we do as John did and look ahead to the fulfillment of God's promise that because of His grace, the narrow road was made broad enough for even the vilest sinner to enter with the mere qualification of humilty. He who confesses his sin will be forgiven, justified, and cleansed from all unrighteousness (Luke 18:13,14, 1John 1:9, 2:1 ). Refer also to Rom.5:15-17,Rom.10:9,10. Life is a free gift. Blessings to all, Howie
 

Strat

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Strat,
There are many many non Christians living in extrem pain here and they do not know Christ...A tormented life here and then a eternal torment there...doesnt add up ethier. Also you can be Christian and live a wonderful life here.
Rach you have the same pionts as my brother...but, and I dont know how I can change what I believe....God made us and knows all...he made us human and knows how we think feel and how we are wired. If he is just why would our mistakes be compared to his Holiness and not to our own weak nature that he created us with. Very few people sin thinking...I'm trying to hurt God. Some people can not just change the belifs they were riased with or the belifs life has lead them to.
Cathy

Depends on how you define "wonderful"...the bible has very little good to say about pleasure,wealth and comfort..it suggest a more hand to mouth existence with just enough to stay alive
 

aspen

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I'm sorry...I dont know were this passage is in the Bible..but I know it is there. What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell.
I have struggled with this during my life and the idea of hell and it even for a year or so cuased me to loose my fiath completly.
I still can not understand it, but I have accepted that I must trust that God is all loving with an ever lasting uncondistional love.
He is just.
But hell seems like something no human would be evil enough to subject someone to for any reason.
And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.

Interesting topic. Seems to me that learning to love as we were created to love, places us on a narrow road. It requires the ability to take another's perspective, show sympathy, empathy, love and finally, unconditional love. Yes, people who do not know God can understand these concepts; however, only the person who knows God can be vulnerable enough to overthrow the Old Man and live a life devoted to unconditional love because He loved us first and we were given the grace to recognize it. Heaven is the end result of Christ's justification and sanctification - it is the perfect ability to love unconditionally - all else falls away.
 
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Caffus

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It says wide is the road to distruction...norrow is the road to life.....any way that is good that is was before Jesus died for us...however, what about all those who happened to be born before that they go to eternal torment?

The Bible also says God CHOSE US.
 

prism

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I'm sorry...I dont know were this passage is in the Bible..but I know it is there. What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell.
I have struggled with this during my life and the idea of hell and it even for a year or so cuased me to loose my fiath completly.
I still can not understand it, but I have accepted that I must trust that God is all loving with an ever lasting uncondistional love.
He is just.
But hell seems like something no human would be evil enough to subject someone to for any reason.
And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.

My take. Mankind was separated and doomed to die from the Fall of Adam. It took the loving ACT of a Loving God to rescue mankind by sending His innocent Son to die for their sins that they may not perish eternally. For a person to hate God by refusing His loving RESCUE through His Son is only asking for hell after being warned and offered a provision out. What more can He do? Die?
We shouldn't so much ask if hell is fair but if Christ's death for our sin was fair.
 

aspen

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My take. Mankind was separated and doomed to die from the Fall of Adam. It took the loving ACT of a Loving God to rescue mankind by sending His innocent Son to die for their sins that they may not perish eternally. For a person to hate God by refusing His loving RESCUE through His Son is only asking for hell after being warned and offered a provision out. What more can He do? Die?
We shouldn't so much ask if hell is fair but if Christ's death for our sin was fair.

I tend to think that God blocked the way to salvation because He did not want us to live eternally as selfish beings after the Fall. Instead, He decided to justify, sanctify and redeem us so that we could regain the ability to do what we were created to do - love unconditionally.
 

Caffus

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Prism....but how can they accept what they can not understand? I know for a fact and from life experiances that there are many people who do not belive in the Bible becuase they do not and can not understand it......so I dont understand how they can be judged and sent to hell for not accepting what they can not understand.
The Bible also tells us that EVERY knee shall bow and EVRY tounge confess Jesus Christ is Lord. It also says in another verse You can not say Jesus Chrit is Lord without The Holy Spirit. I concude from this that ALL will come to him at some piont and be forgiven...wether while there flesh is alive or dead. ..whenever it is that they can understand...they would acept HIs uncondistional love freely. I do not think God would force anyone to say "Jesus Christ is Lord". I accpet Jesus as my Lord and Savoir and I love, He is God....all I know of Him is what I read in the Bible and the way He has tuaght me lessons and brought me through so much in life. I can feel His Love and Peace in my heart. Even though I do not understand the Bible fully or belive there is etrnal punishment...although there may be..and I just will not understand until I'm on the other side I trust God IS fiar all loving and just.

God is ALL powerful with God ALL things are possiable..HE can do whatever he wants.....HE can bring us all to Himself through our free will IF it is HIS will and if He loves us all it seems to me that is what He will do. I do not know if there would be a human that understanding all truth would reject a perfectly uncondistionaly Loving God. God has hardened Hearts in the BIble and He can change and soften hearts as well.