The Road to Life is Norrow?

[yielded777]

In regards to who would choose hell, I don't thing that people (in their right minds) choose hell. In the case of Adam and Eve, they did not choose death by eating of the forbidden tree. They simply believed the serpents lie that they would not die as God promised. He lied and told them that "you will not surely die." The simply did not believe God when He said they would die. I am convinced that if they did believe God about dying, they would never-ever disobeyed Him in the eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I believe the scripture bears this out. Faith obeys! If they had believed God, the would have forsaken the forbidden tree.

For instance, who, in his right mind, would go jump off a 100 ft cliff? Nobody! He knows and believes that it would result in almost certain death. To make such a jump would be simple suicide. If they believed they would die in eating, they would have to have wanted to die if they still ate.

 

[yielded777]

There are two basic types of death. One is the death of the body and the other is the death of the spirit. Death of the spirit is not non-existence. It is separation from god the source of both physical and spiritual life. Apparently, when God told Adam and Eve that "you will surely die. . ." He did not mean physical death essentially. We can see this by what happened when they did disobey Him. They did not die physically. they died in that they were rejected being ejected from the garden, from fellowship with God and the source of life, the tree of life. They were very much still physically alive. They only had the expectation of dying sooner or later because the could not access the tree of life. However, their spirits, sprits that live in a physical body never ever see non-existence. The death of the spirit is eternal separation from God in hell where it 'lives' (exists) on eternally. Spiritual death is not annihilation. On the other hand, physical death is annihilation.

Paul, in the NT refers to the death as being "dead in trespasses and sins. I suggest to you that this is the death that Adam and Eve suffered. Such a person is very much alive physically but under sentence of death and also rejected by God as a sinner. By faith we are "made alive" while we are still in the physically alive state that we have always ben in. IOW, while being alive physically we are either "dead in trespasses" being unforgiven of our sins, or, we are "made alive "having been forgiven of our "old sins."

 

[ATP]

Spiritual death is not annihilation.

But how do nonbelievers live forever in the lake of fire if they're not clothed in immortality...

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

 

[yielded777]

ATP, on 13 Jun 2015 - 4:59 PM, said:

Right, this is how the prophets spoke about eternity in the bible.
"It is on going until it ends."
If nonbelievers were immortal in the lake of fire, God would be a liar and contradictory.
There are no contradictions in the Word of God. Either the sky is blue or it isn't.

but you are assuming they cease to exist....if everlasting destruction has an end then everlasting life has an end also....
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)

JIM: that would the true fact. Eternal is eternal which has no end. What is either mortal or immortal is only the body in which the eternal spirit dwells:


2 Cor 5:1-8

For WE know that if OUR earthly house, this tent, is destroyed,WE have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this WE groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with OUR habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, WE shall not be found naked. 4 For WE who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because WE want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
NKJV

and. . . .

Rom 7:24-25

O wretched man that I AM! Who will deliver ME from this body of death? 25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord!

NKJV
IF we note that the personal pronouns are not the the body (tent or house) that "we" live in. The spirit or souls the seat of self-identity, emotion, thought, etc. The pronouns have reference to our spirits which are self-aware - who we are - spirits in a body. Effectively, Paul alludes to the fact that upon the death of our bodies, we are disembodied persons/spirits looking forward to the point at which we will be given new bodies. It is in these new bodies that we will inherit the eternal kingdom.

We will no longer be spirits in a mortal body but spirits having a new spirit body:

Jim

 

[ATP]

We will no longer be spirits in a mortal body but spirits having a new spirit body:

I don't think scripture speaks of spirit bodies yielded. The spirit, soul and body cannot exist without each other.

 

[newbirth]

Ceasing to exist is the definition of mortality.

if they cease to exist then the scripture is not true in that...
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


if they cease to exist when they die then they cannot be punished...
when Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit...did they cease to exist???
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

[ATP]

if they cease to exist then the scripture is not true in that...
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


if they cease to exist when they die then they cannot be punished...
when Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit...did they cease to exist???
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Or could it be that you are taking all the scriptures that support your belief out of context?

 

[newbirth]

Or could it be that you are taking all the scriptures that support your belief out of context?

do the scripture say one thing and mean another???

 

[Rie]

ATP, on 13 Jun 2015 - 4:59 PM, said:

but you are assuming they cease to exist....if everlasting destruction has an end then everlasting life has an end also....
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)

JIM: that would the true fact. Eternal is eternal which has no end. What is either mortal or immortal is only the body in which the eternal spirit dwells:

Eternal Life or Eternal Death It's not that hard to understand.

 

[Rie]

if they cease to exist then the scripture is not true in that...
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


if they cease to exist when they die then they cannot be punished...

So your own sense of justice is to torture an uncountable number of people while they are conscious and capable of feeling forever and ever?
Is that how much you love your neighbour?
Is that how much you love God?
In that case, forget the top two commandments, Newbirth et al.

 

[Rie]

If I believed that was true, I would not be worshipping that God. If you truly believe that, then why are you not running around screaming to everyone in absolute fear for your neighbour? Or, then what about yourSELF? How can you be absolutely (and I mean absolutly) certain you are not going to this place you describe?

 

[newbirth]

So your own sense of justice is to torture an uncountable number of people while they are conscious and capable of feeling forever and ever?
Is that how much you love your neighbour?
Is that how much you love God?
In that case, forget the top two commandments, Newbirth et al.

my sense of justice??? that’s the scripture...
we are discussing the punishment for those who do not love God...and how much I love God cannot help those who hate God at the judgement...
The commandments cannot help anyone after they die.....so what is your point???